Was Hitler a Christian?

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
What the hell LOCK this thread. What the hell kind of a question is that . Hitler could call himself anything he wanted to. That doesn't mean its so . I know Millions of people who claim to be christians that haven't a clue . Ya pick up a gun you kill someone with it because your governments said its OK . Your NOT a Christian . Anyone whos says differant dooms themselves to hell its a false teaching inspired by Rome . You want to ask stupid questions . Google Pope and the Nazi . Get eyes opened. Geez!

sweet! Now everyone's here so let's get this party started!

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: preslove
but the problem is that this is not the actual belief that centuries of christians adhered to

"the world is flat"

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: Crono
The majority of "medieval christianity" was likely not christian.

fail

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: preslove
Sure, it's intensive, but it still irreversably biased towards "the goodness" of christianity.

Historical jesus scholarship is just as intensive, but it strives to be neutral.

A flawed application of a noble quest. Christ's divinity must come in to play when playing the blame game.

I'm still waiting for you to copy/paste passages of John from atheist websites to backup your claim that the entire book blames the Jews for Christ's death.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Any scholarly reading of John will clearly see that any references to "the Jews" in the crucifixion story are merely shorthand for a small group of leaders; the same Pharisees and Sadducees that are mentioned negatively in the other gospels as well. It would take someone who was actively looking for a means to pervert the gospel to claim any form of collective guilt in what is obviously nothing more than phraseological shorthand.

There is no argument for anti-semitism in the gospels that bears any scholarly weight.

ZV

Tell that to the jews killed in the Passion Play inspired pogroms of medieval europe.

The scholarly reading of john is far more controversial than you claim. Sure, christian scholars claim that John is referring to "a select group" of jews, but the problem is that this is not the actual belief that centuries of christians adhered to. John, and other antisemitic statements throughout the bible inspired centuries of entrenched hatred towards jews, and caused thousands (millions?) of their deaths. To claim that this wasn't a christian belief, or that the millions of christians who believed this belief "weren't christian" is to claim that the majority of medieval christianity was not christian

Once again, you fail to provide any rational support to your perverted readings of Biblical text. The only support you have offered is logically equivalent to, "Some people who professed to be Christians but who clearly misunderstood and misrepresented the texts believed this, therefore it must be true." That is not a rational basis for belief and I am forced to conclude that you have no legitimate arguments to offer.

ZV

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Actually the hebrew is inhim . Just like in the book you read . Moses asked God what his name was . God said Iam that I am . Thats incorrect . proper is( I will become what I become)

What Hebrew word(s) or text(s) are you talking about? Because the John 1 text is Greek. Correct me if I am wrong. God did say I AM THAT I AM (Exodus 3:14), but the words there are "hayah (???) hayah (???)" , literally "I AM I AM".

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Crono
The majority of "medieval christianity" was likely not christian.

fail

Ya have a sword at your throat . Than they say do you except Christ Ect ect ect . You gona say NO.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Actually the hebrew is inhim . Just like in the book you read . Moses asked God what his name was . God said Iam that I am . Thats incorrect . proper is( I will become what I become) Iam that Am says pretty much what one would exspect . I will become what I become Now it gets interesting and way more believeable. [/quote]

Actually, the Hebrew is "elohim" (which is plural by the way).

Are you on crack? Please stop posting.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: preslove
Historical jesus scholarship is just as intensive, but it strives to be neutral.

I have read Barth, Bultmann, Schweitzer, Borg, E.P Sanders, and John Dominic Crossan rather extensively. I would absolutely love to see you try to pull support for anti-semitism in the New Testament from the works of the Jesus Scholars; it would be a most amusingly futile effort on your part.

None of these "neutral" scholars offer support for your positions.

Of course, you'd know that if you read anything other than wikipedia articles.

ZV

 

[Nemesis 1]

First all I won't debate this . Read the African Bible its more complete .Even has Enoch in it . Unless you read enoch your missing out big time. And PAUL added to Christ words . Thats not allowed . Christ said none can add to or take away . He also commands not to make law or you bind yourself to it.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Crono
The majority of "medieval christianity" was likely not christian.

fail

Well, let's see...

love? no
joy? arguable, but in a considerably twisted way
peace? no
patience? no
kindness? no
goodness? no
faithfulness? no
gentleness? no
self-control? no


immorality? yes
impurity? yes
sensuality? yes
idolatry? yes
sorcery? I dunno about this one, never saw Hitler cast magic missile
enmities? yes
strife? yes
jealousy? yes
outbursts of anger? yes
disputes? yes
dissensions? yes
factions? yes
envying? yes
drunkenness? yes, IIRC, the biggest wine cellar in recorded history
carousing? yes


So... NOPE! Not Christian!

 

[timosyy]

Does anyone really think death was Christ's passion?

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you. "

"The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. "

Also as far as antisemitism goes...

"As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."

Christ was a Jew, all the early leaders of the church were Jews (including Paul, who wrote the quote directly above), the entire Old Testament proclaims Israel as the chosen people... I find it very hard to argue for antisemitism in the Christian religion (which is not to say the followers are the same).

Edit: most religion threads on ATOT (or anywhere really) just confirm my belief that comparative religions should be mandatory in high school or something. It'd lead to a lot less ignorance/strife/hatred all around.

 

[nakedfrog]

This thread is getting awfully "holier than thou"
So to speak

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Crono
The majority of "medieval christianity" was likely not christian.

fail

Ya have a sword at your throat . Than they say do you except Christ Ect ect ect . You gona say NO.

Shut the fuck up already.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
This thread is getting awfully "holier than thou"
So to speak

Watch it buster or we're having frog legs for dinner!

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: preslove
Historical jesus scholarship is just as intensive, but it strives to be neutral.

I have read Barth, Bultmann, Schweitzer, Borg, E.P Sanders, and John Dominic Crossan rather extensively. I would absolutely love to see you try to pull support for anti-semitism in the New Testament from the works of the Jesus Scholars; it would be a most amusingly futile effort on your part.

None of these "neutral" scholars offer support for your positions.

Of course, you'd know that if you read anything other than wikipedia articles.

ZV

I have listened to ~70 lectures of this guy,Bart D. Ehrman. He claims that the gospel of john was biased towards blaming jews for the death of jesus because of the jewish-roman wars.

This is well established position.

Oh, it's funny that you mention John Dominic Crossan, because he wrote this book: Who Killed Jesus?: Exposing the Roots of Anti-Semitism in the Gospel Story of the Death of Jesus From the publisher review:

In a book sure to generate both conversation and controversy, John Dominic Crossan, author of two well-regarded books on the historical Jesus, names the New Testament Gospels' insistence on Jewish responsibility for Jesus' death as Christianity's "longest lie." Crossan argues particularly against many of the theories posed in Raymond Brown's The Death of the Messiah. While Brown finds that many of the events in the stories of Jesus' last days are plausible historically, Crossan claims that almost none of the events are historical. According to Crossan, they are "prophesy historicized," accounts written by looking back at the Old Testament and other early materials and then projecting those prophecies on whatever historical events occurred. Because many of those early writers were persecuted by the Jewish authorities, they threw in a heavy dose of propaganda against the Jews. As Crossan aptly states, these gospels were relatively harmless when Christians were a small sect. When, however, Rome became Christian, those anti-Semitic narratives became, and continue to be, lethal. Well argued and highly readable, Who Killed Jesus? also includes an important epilogue stating Crossan's own faith perspectives on the divinity and resurrection of Christ. Scholars rarely go this far, yet such a confession provides another valuable entry into this fascinating material.

I believe that the correct word for this is pwned. This author specifically wrote a book claiming that the new testament is the origin of anti-semitism.

Maybe you should pay closer attention to this discipline...

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: preslove
I believe that the correct word for this is pwned. This author specifically wrote a book claiming that the new testament is the origin of anti-semitism.

Maybe you should pay closer attention to the books who

Who... .... who what?

You obviously have your own agenda, clinging to anything and everything (that just happens to be, like, almost the only other dipshit on the planet that agrees with you and just happened to write a book about it) that will support your agenda, rejecting everything else.

It's people like you that give anyone in any field or religion a bad name.

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Crono
The majority of "medieval christianity" was likely not christian.

fail

Ya have a sword at your throat . Than they say do you except Christ Ect ect ect . You gona say NO.

Shut the fuck up already.

:roll:

How convincing...

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Crono
The majority of "medieval christianity" was likely not christian.

fail

Ya have a sword at your throat . Than they say do you except Christ Ect ect ect . You gona say NO.

Shut the fuck up already.

:roll:

How convincing...

He's either trolling or he's an 8 year old with stumps for hands who's on daddy's computer when he should be finger painting or cleaning up after snack time.

When he makes a post that's worth a shit, I'll gladly honor his effort with my own.

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: preslove
I believe that the correct word for this is pwned. This author specifically wrote a book claiming that the new testament is the origin of anti-semitism.

Maybe you should pay closer attention to the books who

Who... .... who what?

You obviously have your own agenda, clinging to anything and everything (that just happens to be, like, almost the only other dipshit on the planet that agrees with you and just happened to write a book about it) that will support your agenda, rejecting everything else.

It's people like you that give anyone in any field or religion a bad name.

Are you really this stupid?

Zenmervolt name dropped an author, who supposedly had never written anything in support for my position, when this very same author WROTE A BOOK supporting my position.

Seriously, do you fail this hard at logic?

 

[manowar821]

It doesn't really matter. He didn't kill people because of his religion or lack of religion, he killed people because he was a xenophobic bigot with aspirations for world domination.

Originally posted by: IGBT
..he was a liberal.

Fuck off, asshole.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: timosyy
Does anyone really think death was Christ's passion?

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you. "

"The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. "

Also as far as antisemitism goes...

"As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."

Christ was a Jew, all the early leaders of the church were Jews (including Paul, who wrote the quote directly above), the entire Old Testament proclaims Israel as the chosen people... I find it very hard to argue for antisemitism in the Christian religion (which is not to say the followers are the same).

Edit: most religion threads on ATOT (or anywhere really) just confirm my belief that comparative religions should be mandatory in high school or something. It'd lead to a lot less ignorance/strife/hatred all around.

Christ was the fulfilment of the word the law completed . Unless you follow the word man shall fail . Looks to me the the follloers are gone. Because man failed big time.

 

[Cogman]

It really depends on what you categorize a christian as. If you say they are christian because they belong to a christian church, then yes, he was a christian. If you say strictly that a christian is only some that follows the teachings of christ, then he could be arguably not a christian (though, so would most people that claim to be christian). If you want to say that a christian if they are trying to follow the teachings of christ, then it is arguable that he was a christian (and arguable that he isn't a christian).

Its all about perspective, so everyone is right.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Crono
The majority of "medieval christianity" was likely not christian.

fail

Ya have a sword at your throat . Than they say do you except Christ Ect ect ect . You gona say NO.

Shut the fuck up already.

You best read more. 200,000,000 put to death as heritics LOL.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: preslove
Are you really this stupid?

Zenmervolt name dropped an author, who supposedly had never written anything in support for my position, when this very same author WROTE A BOOK supporting my position.

Seriously, do you fail this hard at logic?

I wasn't refuting anything you said. In fact, I even stated that you found someone who agrees with your point of view.

That same author must have written a book about logic that you've read cover to cover. Perhaps you should read a different book before pointing fingers.