Was Hitler a Christian?

[Taejin]

Originally posted by: wyvrn

Originally posted by: IGBT
... when liberals are not trying to pass Nazism off as ?fascism,? they are attempting to pass it off as an extreme form of ?conservatism? and an inexorable byproduct of Christianity. In 2003, on his show Scarborough Country, former congressman and current MSNBC personality Joe Scarborough shed light on a college textbook that grouped Rush Limbaugh and Ronald Reagan with Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini as ?conservatives.?<< Now how exactly could Hitler, a man who was a strong supporter of social welfare programs, gun control, animal rights, government funding for the arts and bans against smoking in public get away with being called a ?conservative??
The reason is simple. Liberals are such shameless liars and persistent revisionists that they will malign anyone they disagree with as Hitleresque, from the spastic Iraq war protestors comparing George W. Bush to Hitler to Sen. Dick Durbin comparing American troops to ?Nazis.? Perhaps this is on account of the equivalence of their deep-seated rejection of God to Hitler?s militant rejection of God which led to one of the ugliest mass murders in human history. But wait a minute, wasn?t Hitler a Christian also?

Well if being a Christian means claiming the role of God for one?s self and coercing the subjects of one?s rule to shake off their beliefs in Christ and pledge a new allegiance to the Third Reich, then perhaps Hitler was a Christian. But this certainly doesn?t explain why the Nazis harassed, arrested, tortured and murdered Christian clergymen for espousing their beliefs, or for that matter why during the first five years of the Nazis? rule a majority of concentration camp inmates were Christians, Jews being late arrivals for the most part, nor does it explain why on November 4, 1936, the Nazis ordered the removal of crucifixes from schools in the Oldenburg area on account of the notion that they were ?symbols of superstition.?

Left turn, Clyde. Over to P&N you go!

lol seriously, shut the hell up already. comparing an insane dictator to factions in american democracy? s t f u

 

[the unknown]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: the unknown

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
He possibly could be a Christian. To God, all sin is equal. We can't really comprehend that as to us, killing people is WAY worse then stealing a bag of chips from the store, and yes it is worse, but either one is a sin, and is impurity, which deserves hell.

Nope. Venial sin and mortal sin. Look it up if you care.

Catholicism and "ordinary" Christianity have significant differences.

Look it up if you care.

I did. I like Catholicism more academically.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: IGBT
... when liberals are not trying to pass Nazism off as ?fascism,? they are attempting to pass it off as an extreme form of ?conservatism? and an inexorable byproduct of Christianity. In 2003, on his show Scarborough Country, former congressman and current MSNBC personality Joe Scarborough shed light on a college textbook that grouped Rush Limbaugh and Ronald Reagan with Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini as ?conservatives.?< Now how exactly could Hitler, a man who was a strong supporter of social welfare programs, gun control, animal rights, government funding for the arts and bans against smoking in public get away with being called a ?conservative??
The reason is simple. Liberals are such shameless liars and persistent revisionists that they will malign anyone they disagree with as Hitleresque, from the spastic Iraq war protestors comparing George W. Bush to Hitler to Sen. Dick Durbin comparing American troops to ?Nazis.? Perhaps this is on account of the equivalence of their deep-seated rejection of God to Hitler?s militant rejection of God which led to one of the ugliest mass murders in human history. But wait a minute, wasn?t Hitler a Christian also?

Well if being a Christian means claiming the role of God for one?s self and coercing the subjects of one?s rule to shake off their beliefs in Christ and pledge a new allegiance to the Third Reich, then perhaps Hitler was a Christian. But this certainly doesn?t explain why the Nazis harassed, arrested, tortured and murdered Christian clergymen for espousing their beliefs, or for that matter why during the first five years of the Nazis? rule a majority of concentration camp inmates were Christians, Jews being late arrivals for the most part, nor does it explain why on November 4, 1936, the Nazis ordered the removal of crucifixes from schools in the Oldenburg area on account of the notion that they were ?symbols of superstition.?

Way to quote someone else's work without referencing it. And when the person you're quoting lists Ann Coulter as a hero on their MySpace page, well, that's a good tell that you might be quoting a complete fucking moron. Especially since he also has Oliver Stone on his heroes list; how diametrically opposed can you get?

 

[AstroManLuca]

He was a vegetarian, an anti-smoking activist, a non-drinker, he painted and wrote, he loved animals and nature, he cared dearly for his wife, and he never killed anyone... personally!

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: johnjohn320
:roll: Jesus fucking Christ. People are actually having this argument? Hitler was Hitler. He was a crazy lunatic dictator. Trying to compare him to American liberals or conservatives is asinine and pointless.

I think IGBT is Ann Coulter's online manifestation.

His posts are like watching a moose have sex with dead passengers in a train wreck.
It's disgusting, but you just can't look away.

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Originally posted by: IGBT
:disgust:

Way to quote someone else's work without referencing it. And when the person you're quoting lists Ann Coulter as a hero on their MySpace page, well, that's a good tell that you might be quoting a complete fucking moron. Especially since he also has Oliver Stone on his heroes list; how diametrically opposed can you get?

:laugh:
Nicely done.

And one of the books there is about the risks of vaccinations. Another one: Death by Modern Medicine.
:laugh:

 

[xaeniac]

Originally posted by: the unknown

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: the unknown

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
He possibly could be a Christian. To God, all sin is equal. We can't really comprehend that as to us, killing people is WAY worse then stealing a bag of chips from the store, and yes it is worse, but either one is a sin, and is impurity, which deserves hell.

Nope. Venial sin and mortal sin. Look it up if you care.

Catholicism and "ordinary" Christianity have significant differences.

Look it up if you care.

I did. I like Catholicism more academically.

Bingo. At least Catholicism takes a stand on every issue there is in the world. Some christian denominations don't know what they believe.

 

[Crono]

As others have said, he wasn't a Christian. Most dictators, especially the truly vicious and genocidal ones likes Hitler, don't actually believe in any established religion, but will use it (and any other belief or tool they can possibly use) to manipulate others. They are all egomaniacs.

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: NSFW
I have read both that he was and that he wasn't. I don't really see how he could be with what he did.

Why not? Do you automatically associate claimed affiliation with a group to lead to certain traits? That'll get you hamstrung in this world real fast.

Hitler claimed to be Catholic. The debate has been raging amongst talking heads since World War 2 whether he actually was, based largely on seemingly contradictory actions such as trying to kill every Jewish/Handicapped/Non-Aryan person in the world. As best I can tell, most of the dissent has come from bodies in the Church and Christianity who would rather not be associated with his atrocities.

To my mind, it's a fairly moot point whether he was or not. Atrocities in the name of religion are well known and documented, and religious apologists have their counterpoints. Read up and decide what you want.

Originally posted by: NSFW
take the Bible and twist it to fit whatever their agenda was.

In other words, the same thing that powers later viewed as being oppressive, self-serving, or horrific have been doing since the book was invented? Don't get me wrong, I don't blame the Bible or Christianity for this, but as George Carlin said "Politicians have traditionally hidden behind three things...the Bible, the Flag, and Children."

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Crono
As others have said, he wasn't a Christian. Most dictators, especially the truly vicious and genocidal ones likes Hitler, don't actually believe in any established religion, but will use it (and any other belief or tool they can possibly use) to manipulate others. They are all egomaniacs.

Bush also believes he has been doing the will of God. So why do you think Hitler did not believe the same? The Catholic church supported him for a long while too, so apparently they either believed he was a good follower of the church, or what he did suited their purposes just fine.

A lot of people abuse whatever is needed to get further in life, whether it is religion or something else. But many of the worst examples of humanity genuinely believe that they are following a higher purpose when doing horrible deeds.

 

[daniel1113]

That depends on what you mean by the question. If you are wondering if he ever claimed to be Christian, then the answer is yes, Hitler was a Christian. Even if just for political purposes, he often invoked God and the Catholic church in his speeches.

Now, if you are asking if Hitler was in fact a true Christian, I don't think anyone can answer that. After all, who gets to decide what does and does not constitute Christianity? No matter the definition chosen, there will be a million people from hundreds of Christian sects that don't agree with it.

 

[Cellulose]

An interesting quote from Wikipedia:

-> Hitler expressed admiration for the Muslim military tradition and directed Himmler to initiate Muslim SS Divisions as a matter of policy. According to one confidant, Hitler stated in private, "The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness..."

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Doesn't matter what he claimed.....his life indicates that he was not a Christian. Even if he was baptized as one (and I don't know whether he was or not) that doesn't automatically make you a Christian the rest of your life. You have to walk the walk, and obviously, he did not.

So what's the point?

All Christians are good. Hitler was evil. Therefor Hitler wasn't a Christian! What impeccable logic...

Of course the real answer to the question is that no causal relationship can be drawn between his religion or lack thereof and his crimes.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Crono
As others have said, he wasn't a Christian. Most dictators, especially the truly vicious and genocidal ones likes Hitler, don't actually believe in any established religion, but will use it (and any other belief or tool they can possibly use) to manipulate others. They are all egomaniacs.

Bush also believes he has been doing the will of God. So why do you think Hitler did not believe the same? The Catholic church supported him for a long while too, so apparently they either believed he was a good follower of the church, or what he did suited their purposes just fine.

A lot of people abuse whatever is needed to get further in life, whether it is religion or something else. But many of the worst examples of humanity genuinely believe that they are following a higher purpose when doing horrible deeds.

That is a different can of worms. I want to draw the distinction between religion and church. A religion can be all good, but a church has huge potential for evil. Most "mainstream" religions preach for mankind to surpass his nature, to do good. The most prevalent promise is a good afterlife. I am ok with all that. What I have a problem with is the church (substitute to whatever religion's equivalent entity if you wish), which may not be pushing the religion, rather using it as a mean.


For instance, I do not believe the attending the church or you go to hell line of thought. Being a good Christian or Catholic is about being a good person and connecting with God on the personal level. Where does the Church come into play in this one to one? If you are having an issue and would like to speak with a priest, sure, it makes sense to go there. But how is a church building not idolising?

The Catholic church has plenty of blood on its hands. I condemn the establishment, not the religion.

 

[whylaff]

Anti-Semitism is rooted deep within the Catholic Church. For example, The Fourth Lateran Council of the Church in 1215 issued canon 68, which required Jews to wear ?distinguishing clothing?, which varied by country. In some parts of Germany, it was a yellow patch. Canon 69 prohibited Jews from holding public office. There were limitations on when they could be in public and where they lived?
While Hitler was obviously a deeply disturbed individual, the groundwork for his twisted beliefs was set well before his time.

 

[her209]

Isn't it a sin to judge the Christianess of another?

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Doesn't matter what he claimed.....his life indicates that he was not a Christian. Even if he was baptized as one (and I don't know whether he was or not) that doesn't automatically make you a Christian the rest of your life. You have to walk the walk, and obviously, he did not.

So what's the point?

if someoen believes that jesus christ is the son of god, you are a christian, end of story

What a ridiculous statement.

You aren't a Christian if you don't walk the walk. The very definition of Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Christ.

In that case, there aren't many Christians around! :Q

That is correct!

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: So
No, this is just more of the "no true scotsman" fallacy.

To qualify for Scotsman, you need to be born in Scotland, which one has no control over. This is a retarded analogy.

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: So
No, this is just more of the "no true scotsman" fallacy.

To qualify for Scotsman, you need to be born in Scotland, which one has no control over. This is a retarded analogy.

I think you don't understand what the fallacy is.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: So
No, this is just more of the "no true scotsman" fallacy.

To qualify for Scotsman, you need to be born in Scotland, which one has no control over. This is a retarded analogy.

You just don't get the analogy. The idea is that Scotsmen, or christians in this case, are made of people who subscribe to a wide array of beliefs and yet are still Scotsmen and christians. For any one of them to suddenly announce "No true <blank> would ever do that"! means that they are attempting to speak for all the rest of <blank> when they have no right to do so. It means that they are taking their own personal world view and stating that is should apply universally to everyone who shares a common title. It means that they have suddenly taken <blank> which is big enough to contain all sorts of differences in opinion and made it contain only their opinion.


Here we have people saying that you must "walk the walk" to be a christian, which is something so undefinable and subject to change with the whims of whoever is declaring it as to be meaningless.

Edit: The fallacy is that no one actually spells out the requirements for being a christian besides "walking the walk". They simply define christian in such a way that christian = not Hitler. In the same way, one could redefine Christian to exclude anyone they wanted without saying anything more than "No TRUE Christian..." with absolutely no other qualifiers at all.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Hitler used religious hatred to fuel his war machine, but remove religion and you've just got another world leader who believed in racial purity (aka eugenics). Many wealthy Americans and American corporations supported Hitler, including Prescott Bush (grandfather of George W. Bush), IBM, Henry Ford, Chase Manhattan Bank, DuPont, JP Morgan, etc, etc. Modern day eugenics supporters include Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Monsanto Corporation, and the Rockefeller Foundation.

Religion is just a tool for the wealthy elite, used to control the simple-minded masses to do their will.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Doesn't matter what he claimed.....his life indicates that he was not a Christian. Even if he was baptized as one (and I don't know whether he was or not) that doesn't automatically make you a Christian the rest of your life. You have to walk the walk, and obviously, he did not.

So what's the point?

if someoen believes that jesus christ is the son of god, you are a christian, end of story

What a ridiculous statement.

You aren't a Christian if you don't walk the walk. The very definition of Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Christ.

No, this is just more of the "no true scotsman" fallacy.

yep.

I would argue with the same logic that GWB, Cheney, and their ilk are in no way Christian based on their actions and beliefs.

Many would disagree with me. I know they certainly don't walk the walk, not as Jesus did, and I know I'm right. Doesn't mean a lot of numbskulls out there think that these people are Christians and that Hitler wasn't.
Can't have it both ways.

And since you are judging them, you are not Christian! Can't have it both ways.

The answer of course is that Hitler was indeed a Christian, just not a good one.

 

[preslove]

Considering that Hitler's final solution was the crescendo of European, Christian Anti-Semitism, then yes Hitler not only was a Christian, but he was probably the greatest champion of a key Christian ideology (i.e. jews killed jesus, so lets kill us some jews).

Christianity has been anti-semitic since the gospel of John.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: the unknown

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
He possibly could be a Christian. To God, all sin is equal. We can't really comprehend that as to us, killing people is WAY worse then stealing a bag of chips from the store, and yes it is worse, but either one is a sin, and is impurity, which deserves hell.

Nope. Venial sin and mortal sin. Look it up if you care.

Catholicism and "ordinary" Christianity have significant differences.

Look it up if you care.

"Ordinary"? Careful how you definne things. They may not work out how you expect.

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: the unknown

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
He possibly could be a Christian. To God, all sin is equal. We can't really comprehend that as to us, killing people is WAY worse then stealing a bag of chips from the store, and yes it is worse, but either one is a sin, and is impurity, which deserves hell.

Nope. Venial sin and mortal sin. Look it up if you care.

Catholicism and "ordinary" Christianity have significant differences.

Look it up if you care.

"Ordinary"? Careful how you definne things. They may not work out how you expect.

It's funny how much many protestants still hate Catholics. Get them going and they'll start going on and on about how it's "a papist cult."

 

[AreaCode7O7]

Considering that he imprisoned and killed most of the leading Christian minds that he could get his hands on, if he claimed to be a Christian he was defining it differently than they were.