Wal-Mart throws hissy-fit and prepares to shut unionized store

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Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Originally posted by: Crimson
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: broon
Unions had a place in this country, but not anymore. Now large companies have an HR department that ensures conditions are suitable for workers. In Red Dawn's example, the union is worthless.
How are they worthless, because some of them don't force an employer to keep and crappy worker? The Pay Scale and Benifits Packages for Skilled Labor Union Members enables them to have a quality life, good Medical Benefits and a decent retirement. WTF is wrong with that?

Because it's not Uniquely American :) Haven't you heard, one job with quality life and good benefits and retirement is not the American way. American way is three jobs, no benefits, no retirement aside from stock market.


One important point these union haters miss is all the businesses they suppport with thier high wages spending the money here, at resturants, car dealers, nice homes etc which improves the community and our economy. How many busineses does a minimum wage worker at walmart support? None. Conservatives even admit it, saying tax cuts, meaning more money in your pocket gives you more to spend. Policies that put money in people's pocket stimulate the economy. Demand drives the economy, not supply. Why would you invest in greater production capacity if no one is out there with money to spend? Unions is just another mechanism to recirculate money to the workforce. This is classic Keynes.

One important thing the union LOVERS miss is that inflated wages lead to inflated prices. What good is twice the salary if you are paying $25 for a pair of jeans instead of $10? I mean, if higher wages are good, with no consequences, why not just decree that all workers make $100/hr?

Doesn't work that way. Why? In America those businesses have competitors. If one raises prices to cover cost of labor and his competition stands pat, Biz A takes market share because his prices are now lower. His lost profit per item, due to higher wages, he makes up for in volume. Another factor, now that labor can profit from thier efforts up and above the cost of living, they can "open thier own shop" to compete with the price raiser paying themselves whatever they wish, which usually is less than the big tuna makes.

I'm sure you don't believe me. Well lets look at this supposed inflation is caused by higher wages.

We created the minimum wage in 1938. Raised it in 1957, 1963, and 1996. Take a look at the inflation numbers for the years immediately following. And you'll find the rate of inflation went down right after these increases in the minimum wage.http://www.eh.net/hmit/inflation/inflationr.php

1957 3.38
1958 2.98
1959 .58
1960 1.72
1961 1.13
1962 1.12
1963 1.10
1964 1.37
1965 1.62
1966 2.92
1967 2.84
1968 4.26
1969 5.29


1996 2.96
1997 2.35
1998 1.51
1999 2.21
2000 3.38
2001 2.86

 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Then wal mart goes bye bye. Their products are as sub-standard as their treatment of their employees so good riddance.

When I was going to college the first time around I worked a couple of jobs (three at one point), one of which was overnight, graveyard shift maintenance at a Wal Mart in Tacoma, Washington. I was ALWAYS treated well, I was paid commensurate with the job's skill level (read: It was a low skill job and I was paid low wages; about $2 an hour ABOVE minimum wage. At the time I think it was around $8 an hour (MW was like $6 or so. I forget the exact figures.)

In any case, Wal Mart sells some good products and some cheap products; both choices are valid. At times in my life I've NEEDED something but couldn't AFFORD the nice, high quality version. Thankfully Wal Mart had a cheaper knockoff that did the trick.

Not everyone can always AFFORD the "high quality" version of an item all the time, and for those people who can't and those times when it just isn't feasible, it's good to know that stores like Wal Mart (or K Mart or Target or 99 Cents Only, of late) are there with a cheaper model.

Don't knock cheap; it's better than nothing, and without stores who sell cheap items some people would have to go *without*.


Jason
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Ha, I knew this was going to happen.

Now every neighborhood that can't stand Wal-Mart either simply has to convince the people of the town that work there to unionize.

They can do that by simply offering them incentives outside of Wally World.

This is great News. Thanks Canucks :) :thumbsup:

Ah, you mean "incentives" like cheaper goods somewhere else? I agree! However, you forget there is a corollary that goes with that: Low wages to go with the LOW SKILL jobs that retail work entails. If you want stores to sell goods that your average person can AFFORD, you're going to have stores that do their best to keep their own COSTS down. You *can't* run an upscale business with $40,000 a year employees and high end merchandise while at the same time selling for below cost. This is BASIC economics.

Jason
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: Steeplerot
It's good to see Canada stand up to the trash who think they can get away with this stuff.

And isn't it great that now those people who HAD jobs now DON'T have jobs!? Good going! What a smart crowd they obviously are!

Jason
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Thats funny because everyone I know in a union are not only employed but paid well and quite proud of it.
You are your only limiting factor so have at it.

Actually, he's right. At one time Unions were all about getting FAIR wages for SKILLED labor. Now they're all about getting ABSURD wages for any MORON who walks in off the street. Observe GROCERY WORKERS, who make absurd wages in the $15-20 an hour range to SCANNING CANNED SOUP. These people are LOW SKILL, LOW EDUCATION, LOW AMBITION. THey don't DESERVE the wages they are paid, and the rest of us pay the difference in higher food costs.

Next time you scream for high wages from budget-based stores, think about all the POOR PEOPLE who will be able to afford LESS than they would have because you jacked up the prices.

Jason
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: mwtgg
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Thats funny because everyone I know in a union are not only employed but paid well and quite proud of it.
You are your only limiting factor so have at it.

And those who are not in unions yet paid well? What about them?

We don't count, of course! We earned our way up the HONEST way.

Jason
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
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www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: glenn1
I have read this entire thread and as usual not one post gives any possible reason why unions are bad.

I for one haven't said unions are bad, I just find it hard to justify a union for an employees of this skill level. I'm not questioning unions as an institution, I'm questioning the utility of a union in this setting. Since the main weapon a union has is the strike (withholding their labor), I can see where a union for skilled building trades makes sense, but for door greeters and clerks at WalMart? How much of a threat is a strike when the workers possess skill sets that can be replaced by anyone with an IQ higher than 50 and about 30 seconds training?

Right to mooch laws should all be abolished. Restricting workers's freedoms is never good imo.

I fail to see how allowing someone the freedom NOT to join a union if they choose constitutes "restricting workers' freedoms." Care to elaborate?

It's the same line they trot out all the time when Union discussions come up. Right-to-Work laws allow MORE freedom for workers not less. Non-RTW states the unions can take over shops and employees don't have a choice -they are forced into the union or quit.

Unions now days are about control - nothing more. They have lost massive control and will hold onto any remaining power they think they have using any means necessary(fraudulent card check "votes" anyone?)
Bah - this is a WalMart bash thread...so lets get back to it. If a Union apologist wants to start a thread about how wonderful the Unions of today are -then by all means do so.

CsG
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
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ok I will bite, how is being a union professional dishonest in your world? :roll:

and CaD thanks for more bs about "its all falling apart and out of control."
the only thing out of control here is the tired lines you quote from blowhard pundits.
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: miketheidiot
my dads union seems to do quite well for itself. making much more than he did in any of his non-union jobs before.

Which doesn't answer the question, "Does he deserve it?" Once upon a time Unions were great because you could bet that if you hired a UNION worker you were hiring a QUALITY worker who knew his stuff and worked his ass off. Now you get lazy slackers who are just on the lookout for a fat paycheck with minimal effort. Sad that Unions have become so CORRUPT, but there's no denying the truth of it.

Jason
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: Whaspe
In most unionized situations I've witnessed the workers shoe contempt for their job, and are there just for the pay. Promotion is not based on skill but on politics and seniority. And the union is forced to stick up for people even it was thier fault. Now I'm not going to say that all unions behave this way, but it is a serious problem non the less. Why are jobs being outsourced?
And if you don't like Walmart don't shop there, I certainly don't but as long as my neighbor wants to I'm not going to stop him.

Well said!

Jason
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
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Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
my dads union seems to do quite well for itself. making much more than he did in any of his non-union jobs before.

Which doesn't answer the question, "Does he deserve it?" Once upon a time Unions were great because you could bet that if you hired a UNION worker you were hiring a QUALITY worker who knew his stuff and worked his ass off. Now you get lazy slackers who are just on the lookout for a fat paycheck with minimal effort. Sad that Unions have become so CORRUPT, but there's no denying the truth of it.

Jason

and where do come to this "undeniable conclusion" that union workers are all corrupt?
Get a grip.
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
If you don't like WalMart - don't shop their and don't support it. It's just that simple.
CsG
I don't, 'nuff said. ;)

I do if I can get what I want or need at a good price. It depends on what I am looking for. Some things the quality isn't an issue (DVD's, video games, etc.) but the PRICE is. For things like, say, T Shirts, I tend to go someplace *cheaper* than Wal Mart (it's a frickin' T Shirt, man! $15 are you INSANE?!). For work clothes (shirts, ties, slacks, etc.) I go to better places than Wal Mart.

Anyway, Wal Mart is a great store that really helps a lot of people to *have* something when they otherwise couldn't afford to. No doubt they do some wrong (manipulating Eminent Domain, for example. Grrrr!), but this situation isn't an example of that.

Jason
 

mwtgg

Lifer
Dec 6, 2001
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Ah the P&N Elitists hard at work just like W. :roll:
Ah it's the Crimson of the Left!

The Dub has nothing to do with this topic.

Oh really???

You gonna swear that Wally World has not benefitted from W's All For the Corporation Policies???

I know it says "No personal attacks", but you really are denser than a lead brick, aren'tcha?
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: HalosPuma
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Wal-Mart Canada Corp. announced Wednesday it will close a Quebec store whose unionized employees were involved in negotiations to obtain their first labour contract.

?Despite nine days of meetings over three months, we've been unable to reach an agreement with the union that in our view will allow the store to operate efficiently and profitably,? company spokesman Andrew Pelletier said in a statement.

:thumbsup: Good job on Walmart's part not giving in to those damn socialists. Those union comrades just don't understand - in order for them to continue to have a job, their business must be profitable. But at the rate they are demanding, their business will not be profitable and now they have nothing. Haha! I love it when union members get screwed. They are terrible people.

Quoth Homer Simpson: "I always wanted to be a Teamster. Mmmm....lazy and surly..."

Jason
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: Steeplerot
another case of sadly misinformed sorts...
Unions are on your side if you shrug them of you are limiting yourself.
BTW I like my pickles on the side :laugh:

Unions are on UNION ORGANIZERS' side, period. They screw the workers, they screw business. Every time you as a private individual deal with a Union it costs you money ("Dues"). Every time you as a business deal with a Union it costs you money (Higher wages). The only people who CONSISTENTLY make money off of Unions are UNIONS, and at that, it's only the guys IN CHARGE.

Jason
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
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Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
If you don't like WalMart - don't shop their and don't support it. It's just that simple.
CsG
I don't, 'nuff said. ;)

I do if I can get what I want or need at a good price. It depends on what I am looking for. Some things the quality isn't an issue (DVD's, video games, etc.) but the PRICE is. For things like, say, T Shirts, I tend to go someplace *cheaper* than Wal Mart (it's a frickin' T Shirt, man! $15 are you INSANE?!). For work clothes (shirts, ties, slacks, etc.) I go to better places than Wal Mart.

Anyway, Wal Mart is a great store that really helps a lot of people to *have* something when they otherwise couldn't afford to. No doubt they do some wrong (manipulating Eminent Domain, for example. Grrrr!), but this situation isn't an example of that.

Jason

Just becasue you do not understand the manufcturing of products you cannot say it quality is arbitrary. Low quality DVD's DO matter if you have an old dvd player.And as we gamers know how frustrating it is to drop 50$ on a buggy POS game.
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: HalosPuma
:thumbsup: Good job on Walmart's part not giving in to those damn socialists. Those union comrades just don't understand - in order for them to continue to have a job, their business must be profitable. But at the rate they are demanding, their business will not be profitable and now they have nothing. Haha! I love it when union members get screwed. They are terrible people.
Wal-Mart not profitable?!? Holy cow, what are you smoking?

Wal Mart is profitable because they keep their costs down. For the most part they sell their goods at razor-thin margins. They make a profit because they have a buttload of VOLUME.

Jason
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
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Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
another case of sadly misinformed sorts...
Unions are on your side if you shrug them of you are limiting yourself.
BTW I like my pickles on the side :laugh:

Unions are on UNION ORGANIZERS' side, period. They screw the workers, they screw business. Every time you as a private individual deal with a Union it costs you money ("Dues"). Every time you as a business deal with a Union it costs you money (Higher wages). The only people who CONSISTENTLY make money off of Unions are UNIONS, and at that, it's only the guys IN CHARGE.

Jason

I see you know zip about unions. :cookie:
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: HalosPuma
:thumbsup: Good job on Walmart's part not giving in to those damn socialists. Those union comrades just don't understand - in order for them to continue to have a job, their business must be profitable. But at the rate they are demanding, their business will not be profitable and now they have nothing. Haha! I love it when union members get screwed. They are terrible people.
Wal-Mart not profitable?!? Holy cow, what are you smoking?

According to the Wally World Corp Thugs the store cannot be "profitable" having Union employees.

And they are probably right.

Jason
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Wal-Mart not profitable?!? Holy cow, what are you smoking?
the corporation is obviously profitable, as is mcdonalds, but a single store must also turn a profit, or else theres no sense in keeping it open. If the union left walmart the only option being to close, then id say they union lost out. now what? they celebrate they beat the big evil corporation, but how many people does a walmart store employ? a couple hundred? What is the town going to do to employ those people? Had better jobs been available, none of them would have applied at walmart in the first place. SOunds like all this union accomplished was screwing over thier own town trying to make an extra buck. Kinda makes them seem like the evil ones to me.

I'm sure the town will be fine without Wally World. Like Eagle said, now some real stores can pop back up.

And which stores would you call "Real" stores? The ones that sell expensive goods that poor people can't afford to buy?

Jason
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
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Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Then wal mart goes bye bye. Their products are as sub-standard as their treatment of their employees so good riddance.

When I was going to college the first time around I worked a couple of jobs (three at one point), one of which was overnight, graveyard shift maintenance at a Wal Mart in Tacoma, Washington. I was ALWAYS treated well, I was paid commensurate with the job's skill level (read: It was a low skill job and I was paid low wages; about $2 an hour ABOVE minimum wage. At the time I think it was around $8 an hour (MW was like $6 or so. I forget the exact figures.)

In any case, Wal Mart sells some good products and some cheap products; both choices are valid. At times in my life I've NEEDED something but couldn't AFFORD the nice, high quality version. Thankfully Wal Mart had a cheaper knockoff that did the trick.

Not everyone can always AFFORD the "high quality" version of an item all the time, and for those people who can't and those times when it just isn't feasible, it's good to know that stores like Wal Mart (or K Mart or Target or 99 Cents Only, of late) are there with a cheaper model.

Don't knock cheap; it's better than nothing, and without stores who sell cheap items some people would have to go *without*.


Jason

My local stores sell me exellent items at the same price as wal mart junk.
We don't even have a wal mart here in san francisco but yet we have thriving small family owned stores on EVERY block within walking distance.
Just becasue you are forced to buy their junk because they have strong armed everyone out of business does not mean they are superior in any way.
You as the consumer are just being played for a sucker thinking you would never have another option.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Wal-Mart Canada Corp. announced Wednesday it will close a Quebec store whose unionized employees were involved in negotiations to obtain their first labour contract.

?Despite nine days of meetings over three months, we've been unable to reach an agreement with the union that in our view will allow the store to operate efficiently and profitably,? company spokesman Andrew Pelletier said in a statement.

The store, which will close in May, is located in Saguenay, about 250 kilometres north of Quebec City. Nearly 200 employees received union accreditation last summer, making it the chain's only unionized outlet at the time.

The United Food and Commercial Workers Union was not available for immediate comment but Claudia Tremblay, a cashier at the store, said many employees burst into tears when managers told them about the news Wednesday morning.

?Many people cried, including myself,? Tremblay, 29, said in an interview. ?I'm a mother of two children and I'm separated from my husband. It's very difficult.?

Tremblay said she abstained from the unionization vote, adding she was upset that her non-commital stance won't save her job.

Pelletier said the union walked away on Feb. 1 from the collective-bargaining process, which was scheduled to run until at least March 15, and told the company and the conciliator it would be applying for arbitration.

?On Feb. 2, 2005, the union officially applied for first contract arbitration and in doing so acknowledged that the company and union were not likely to reach a collective agreement,? he said.

Employees at another Wal-Mart store in St-Hyacinthe, east of Montreal, have also been accredited recently.

Wal-Mart operates two other non-unionized stores in the Saguenay-Lac St-Jean region.

Wal-Mart, whose headquarters are in Mississauga, Ont., operates 256 stores and six Sam's Clubs across Canada with more than 70,000 employees.









This is the same stuff they pulled when they ditched butcher jobs when the butchers tried to unionize...There answer sell no more fresh meat -just packaged!
Congrats to the newly wal-mart free city. Now we know what will shut them down. -Their own greed! :beer:

They met 3 times a month? WTF were the management doing the other 27 days of the month? Obviously not working toward a solution. It is obvious keeping their underpaid workers working part-time without benefits and subsidized by food stamps while sucking down corporate welfare is their agenda -not good business sense

Woohoo! Go Wal Mart! Fvck those low-skill piss ants! If they want to get paid the big bucks they better get themselves educated and skilled and find a REAL job! I'm sick of these skill-less whiners who piss and moan because they don't make the same money as people in PROFESSIONAL positions. If you want SKILLED wages, learn to do SKILLED labor!

Jason

Woo I can feel the love. Projection says you have serious anger managment issues..Daddy not love you?

Not as sick as they are of being broke.

Can everybody get the BIG BUCKS? Of course not. Who will that leave to do the work of society? I think a better situation is where everybody prospers not a medieval world view of social hierarchy. If WALMART just can't turn a profit, unless her employees make poverty wages, how exactly is that a "successful" model? Hell, medieval feudalism managed to provide prosperity for some people. Even Soviet communism furnished a decent standard of living for a few people. Isn't the measure of system how well it treats the people on the bottom? Every social system treats the people on top just fine.
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
another case of sadly misinformed sorts...
Unions are on your side if you shrug them of you are limiting yourself.
BTW I like my pickles on the side :laugh:

Unions are on UNION ORGANIZERS' side, period. They screw the workers, they screw business. Every time you as a private individual deal with a Union it costs you money ("Dues"). Every time you as a business deal with a Union it costs you money (Higher wages). The only people who CONSISTENTLY make money off of Unions are UNIONS, and at that, it's only the guys IN CHARGE.

Jason

I see you know zip about unions. :cookie:

No, I know LOTS about Unions. My father, grandfather and two of my cousins are or were all part of unions. My grandfather was a Teamster from the 1940's until he retired several years ago and even HE says that the Unions of today aren't what they once were!

I'm about to head out the door for home, but I'll be back later and we'll talk Unions. There's a lot of evil in a Union, and a lot of power the helps to strip poor people out of their jobs COMPLETELY. See above.

Jason
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: Zebo


Woo I can feel the love. Projection says you have serious anger managment issues..Daddy not love you?

Not as sick as they are of being broke.

Can everybody get the BIG BUCKS? Of course not. Who will that leave to do the work of society? I think a better situation is where everybody prospers not a medieval world view of social hierarchy. If WALMART just can't turn a profit, unless her employees make poverty wages, how exactly is that a "successful" model? Hell, medieval feudalism managed to provide prosperity for some people. Even Soviet communism furnished a decent standard of living for a few people. Isn't the measure of system how well it treats the people on the bottom? Every social system treats the people on top just fine.

Take the Wal Mart jobs for what they are: SHORT-TERM, transitionary jobs. You do them while you go to school or to make ends meet until something better comes along. They are NOT meant to be long-term, lifestyle jobs. The ONLY jobs at Wal Mart that are meant to be longer term are MANAGEMENT jobs, and guess what? They pay VERY well!

Don't try to presume that ALL jobs are necessarily CAREERS. Some of them are just a transitionary bridge, and the typical Wal Mart job is PRECISELY that.

Jason