Voter ID laws are...

[Atreus21]

Poll Taxes. Plain and simple. Just because you think everyone should have an ID on them, doesn't mean they should be required to have them to exercise their right to vote. Anything short is an attack on freedom, and you should be ashamed of yourselves for supporting such laws.

Just a PSA.

How do we know the person voting is a citizen?

 

[fskimospy]

How do we know the person voting is a citizen?

Registration requirements.

With the information that is now available there is no rational way to support voter if requirements. There simply isn't.

 

[spacejamz]

No I have the list of acceptable documentation to prove identity which is far more extensive than voter ID laws. But I'm sure you aren't really interested in that.

http://health-care.lawyers.com/medi...-and-proof-of-citizenship-or-nationality.html

So exactly what documents do Voting ID laws require that are not listed on your page???

Acceptable documentation of identity includes:
Driver's license or state identity card
Certificate of Indian Blood, or other U.S. American Indian/Alaska Native tribal document
School identification card with a photograph of the individual
U.S. military card or draft record
Identification card issued by the federal, state, or local government with the same information included on driver's licenses
Military dependent's identification card
U.S. Coast Guard Merchant Mariner card
For children under 16, an affidavit signed by a parent or guardian

 

[Atreus21]

Registration requirements.

With the information that is now available there is no rational way to support voter if requirements. There simply isn't.

Do registration requirements not involve the use of an ID?

 

[spacejamz]

Wait...now I am confused...first you say this:

I would suggest looking up what is acceptable for identification for Medicare recipients. They are not nearly as restrictive as what is allowed under the voter ID laws tha have been passed.

Then you say this:

No I have the list of acceptable documentation to prove identity which is far more extensive than voter ID laws. But I'm sure you aren't really interested in that.

http://health-care.lawyers.com/medi...-and-proof-of-citizenship-or-nationality.html

So is verifying identity for Medicare more or less extensive???

 

[MomentsofSanity]

So exactly what documents do Voting ID laws require that are not listed on your page???

Acceptable documentation of identity includes:
Driver's license or state identity card
Certificate of Indian Blood, or other U.S. American Indian/Alaska Native tribal document
School identification card with a photograph of the individual
U.S. military card or draft record
Identification card issued by the federal, state, or local government with the same information included on driver's licenses
Military dependent's identification card
U.S. Coast Guard Merchant Mariner card
For children under 16, an affidavit signed by a parent or guardian

Now that I see your edit I'm saying that Medicare accepts far more options to prove identity and citizenship than one can present under the voter ID laws that have been passed. So arguing that someone getting medicare should have the right ID to vote is not a valid argument.

 

[fskimospy]

Do registration requirements not involve the use of an ID?

No, at least none that I'm aware of. (there might be some states with stronger voter ID laws that require this now) Generally you're required to supply proof of residency and social security number as to the best of my knowledge.

 

[spacejamz]

Now that I see your edit I'm saying that Medicare accepts far more options to prove identity and citizenship than one can present under the voter ID laws that have been passed. So arguing that someone getting medicare should have the right ID to vote is not a valid argument.

This is a typical argument with a liberal....

in Post #68, I replied to ivwshane's post about elderly people not having ID's to vote:

How does these elderly people verify their medical (Medicare) benefits without proving who they are???

This was your reply in Post #69:

I would suggest looking up what is acceptable for identification for Medicare recipients. They are not nearly as restrictive as what is allowed under the voter ID laws tha have been passed.

In case you cannot put 2 and 2 together here, how do the elderly who have to prove they are eligible to receive Medicare, cannot prove who they are to vote?

If they don't need Medicare, then the excuse of not being able to afford an ID goes out the window...

 

[MomentsofSanity]

This is a typical argument with a liberal....

in Post #68, I replied to ivwshane's post about elderly people not having ID's to vote:



This was your reply in Post #69:



In case you cannot put 2 and 2 together here, how do the elderly who have to prove they are eligible to receive Medicare, cannot prove who they are to vote?

If they don't need Medicare, then the excuse of not being able to afford an ID goes out the window...

Not sure how I can make this any more clear. The elderly (or anyone else) who need and qualify for Medicare can establish their eligibility/identity by using information that is not valid for the purpose of voting based on the laws that have been passed. It's really that simple. One can qualify for Medicare while still not having valid ID to vote.

Really anything government related that requires identification offers more options to prove who you are than voter ID laws. WHich is one of the big issues many opponents of voter ID laws as passed have had. They are too narrow and limiting on what is deemed valid.

 

[nehalem256]

Not sure how I can make this any more clear. The elderly (or anyone else) who need and qualify for Medicare can establish their eligibility/identity by using information that is not valid for the purpose of voting based on the laws that have been passed. It's really that simple. One can qualify for Medicare while still not having valid ID to vote.

Really anything government related that requires identification offers more options to prove who you are than voter ID laws. WHich is one of the big issues many opponents of voter ID laws as passed have had. They are too narrow and limiting on what is deemed valid.

Wrong. It has been explicitly stated in this thread that the issue is not with the allowed ID being to narrow. It has been explicitly stated that requiring any documentation of who you are is an unacceptable poll tax.

 

[irishScott]

If you had to pay $10,000 for an ID would you have any objections, after all $10,000 is a drop in the bucket for someone who makes millions a year.

However the reason ID's and any requiring document should be free is because of this thing called the constitution and an outright prohibition of little trick, used by unpatriotic piece of shit Americans, called a poll tax. And it's meant to protect ALL americans from people like you who wouldn't mind a "little test" in order to vote.

So a simple quiz where people are allowed to google the answers is too much? People need to be protected from the likes of that?! You sound like a little kid grandstanding about how cruel his parents are for saying too much candy is bad for him.

Here's a poll quiz question you'll probably love that would have filtered out a ton of shitty voters: "Candidate Obama is a Muslim. True or False?"

Pieces of shit like me want at least semi-intelligent, semi-rational and verified citizens running the show. But no, clearly the franchise of people like this must be protected at all costs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio

I want to protect all Americans from people like that. ^^^ You're not defending all of America, you're defending people like that. I don't care how you dress it up, you're fighting an epic, glorious, patriotic battle for the right of the mentally impaired and willfully ignorant to vote.

 

[irishScott]

What you don't see is of no importance. You are arrogant and don't walk in other's shoes. It is a documented fact that ID poses problems for many who voted their whole lives previously without it. You are anti-American and you don't want to see it, so you blind yourself with self-manufactured bull shit.

Specifics? Because we have shuttle bus services that drive people to the polls. Why not shuttle bus services that drive people to get IDs?

I hold others to a tiny fraction of my standards in this regard. I know a guy who works as a delivery driver, making just a little over minimum wage, is an obese diabetic, has back problems that requires hardcore painkillers and is immobile without them. He volunteered to help my GF and I move in one of our mutual friends two days ago, and did so quite successfully. Granted he avoided the heaviest lifting, but his opportunities and resources are a small fraction of mine (which are middle class at best) and I'm positive he had $20 to spare (because we went out for drinks/arcade games afterward) and was mobile enough to get an ID if he needed to.

But hell, since you're so scared let's make it generational. Starting this year, everyone turning 18 has to get an ID. Everyone over 18 is grandfathered in. Sound good?

 

[spacejamz]

Not sure how I can make this any more clear. The elderly (or anyone else) who need and qualify for Medicare can establish their eligibility/identity by using information that is not valid for the purpose of voting based on the laws that have been passed. It's really that simple. One can qualify for Medicare while still not having valid ID to vote.

Really anything government related that requires identification offers more options to prove who you are than voter ID laws. WHich is one of the big issues many opponents of voter ID laws as passed have had. They are too narrow and limiting on what is deemed valid.

Please do tell what documents a senior citizen can use to prove eligibility for Medicare that would not work to substantiate their ID for voting???

As a reminder, here is the list from your link:

Acceptable documentation of identity includes:
Driver's license or state identity card
Certificate of Indian Blood, or other U.S. American Indian/Alaska Native tribal document
School identification card with a photograph of the individual
U.S. military card or draft record
Identification card issued by the federal, state, or local government with the same information included on driver's licenses
Military dependent's identification card
U.S. Coast Guard Merchant Mariner card

 

[DrPizza]

Here's an idea - 21st century technology:
Facial recognition.
No ID needed, each person gets to vote once, and facial recognition software can determine afterward if someone attempted to vote twice.

 

[fskimospy]

Here's an idea - 21st century technology:
Facial recognition.
No ID needed, each person gets to vote once, and facial recognition software can determine afterward if someone attempted to vote twice.

But why bother with that? That's an enormous expense to stop something that nobody is doing anyway.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Please do tell what documents a senior citizen can use to prove eligibility for Medicare that would not work to substantiate their ID for voting???

As a reminder, here is the list from your link:

Acceptable documentation of identity includes:
Driver's license or state identity card
Certificate of Indian Blood, or other U.S. American Indian/Alaska Native tribal document
School identification card with a photograph of the individual
U.S. military card or draft record
Identification card issued by the federal, state, or local government with the same information included on driver's licenses
Military dependent's identification card
U.S. Coast Guard Merchant Mariner card

Well, student IDs are the most notorious of the lot that were removed or never included in the list of acceptable ID to establish identity for voting but you seem to have left out one critical part of that link.

Additionally, it is possible that data matches with other government agencies may be used to establish identity.

 

[Cozarkian]

Well, student IDs are the most notorious of the lot that were removed or never included in the list of acceptable ID to establish identity for voting but you seem to have left out one critical part of that link.

If proposed voter ID law allowed the same forms of identification as Medicaid, would you support it?

 

[irishScott]

But why bother with that? That's an enormous expense to stop something that nobody is doing anyway.

You just defined a good portion of the American legal code.

I'd prefer retinal scans to facial recognition though. More reliable. All you'd need is one per polling place, just set up a single entrance.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

If proposed voter ID law allowed the same forms of identification as Medicaid, would you support it?

I've always supported less restrictive means of establishing identity. But it's just so arbitrary what different states do and do not allow. Come up with a uniform standard for everyone.

Things like I-9s, Medicare etc... have more options to help someone establish identity thatn voter ID laws. Here north of the border we have significantly more options to establish identity. So broaden what is accepted and a huge amount of the argument against ID laws is diffused.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

If you had to pay $10,000 for an ID would you have any objections, after all $10,000 is a drop in the bucket for someone who makes millions a year.

However the reason ID's and any requiring document should be free is because of this thing called the constitution and an outright prohibition of little trick, used by unpatriotic piece of shit Americans, called a poll tax. And it's meant to protect ALL americans from people like you who wouldn't mind a "little test" in order to vote.

This x10000

 

[irishScott]

This x10000

I already responded to that post. You want to stand next to him on his little soap box and grandstand about your glorious cause of protecting the franchise of the willfully ignorant, you go right ahead. The Tea Party thanks you for your support.

 

[fskimospy]

You just defined a good portion of the American legal code.

I'd prefer retinal scans to facial recognition though. More reliable. All you'd need is one per polling place, just set up a single entrance.

You would need way, way more than that. What if it's not working? What if some voter is having trouble understanding how to use it? You think voting lines are bad now...

And again, all this trouble and expense for a problem that for all intents and purposes simply does not exist.

 

[irishScott]

You would need way, way more than that. What if it's not working? What if some voter is having trouble understanding how to use it? You think voting lines are bad now...

And again, all this trouble and expense for a problem that for all intents and purposes simply does not exist.

Fine, 3 or 4 per location to have spares, and have a volunteer or employee manage the thing. It's not hard to use, just look into it for a few seconds. People behind counters at the DMV operate eye-test machines, it's just about that simple assuming the backend is up and running.

And once again, your last statement describes a good chunk of the American legal code. If we're going to waste money, we might as well waste money on making systems needlessly robust.

I'm also noticing a pattern in the objections in this thread: "But stupid people..."

 

[chucky2]

How much does a retina scan change from say 18 to when they're 55? It's the same or would a voter have to keep getting it updated?

What about absentee voters, how do you handle that problem?

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Fine, 3 or 4 per location to have spares, and have a volunteer or employee manage the thing. It's not hard to use, just look into it for a few seconds. People behind counters at the DMV operate eye-test machines, it's just about that simple assuming the backend is up and running.

And once again, your last statement describes a good chunk of the American legal code. If we're going to waste money, we might as well waste money on making systems needlessly robust.

I'm also noticing a pattern in the objections in this thread: "But stupid people..."

I have found your biography.