Flavio I did not say it was not true, but what I said was that just because many people say something does not make it true you are smarter than that and so is everyone here.
If I said that the moon was made of cheese and then every news organization said the same thing without independent consultations that would not make it true.
There is only one source for the information, there is many conduits of the same information but that makes it no more accurate.
If I said that the moon was made of cheese and then every news organization said the same thing without independent consultations that would not make it true.
There is only one source for the information, there is many conduits of the same information but that makes it no more accurate.
Thanks for that point, perhaps you missed where I said it might or might not be true I don't know, but as I said there is only 1 source for this info, and a lot of parroting doesn't make it true, just like me saying over and over you are boring does not mean everyone else here thinks your boring you may be very entertaining to them.
Let not cry about Vietnam because that was the past. And, by your book we shouldn't condemned Saddam for what he has done in the past because it is now the present.Originally posted by: Ornery
Get the fvck out of my face!
I said they ARE animals, and they ARE... period. You gonna defend them by crying about Vietnam et al? Damn, talk about lemmings coming from Saddam's useful idiot.
All we have at the present is history to base out judgment on this situation therefore a crime that has done from the past should be use as a base comparison.
I personally have a lot of respect for you in the past, but it has changed since this terrible action that your government has created. I?m sure your & my feeling is not a rare current, that this war has successfully divided the heart and mind of the global community and maybe even America citizens.
The only positive thing this war has achieved is bringing together the Arabs/Muslim, and maybe empower the Muslim fanatics that America is trying to take down.
And, what America has successfully done is creating at least one Muslim fanatic for every civilian that has died in this war.
I think the U.S. troops did exactly the right thing. With all the suicide attacks in the past few weeks, we can't risk any more soldiers lives. The Iraqi family should have stopped. What the fsck did they think was going to happen if they tried to flee U.S. troops telling them to stop?
It's a senseless tragedy, but you cannot blame U.S. troops for doing their job. It could just as easily have been a van full of suicide bombers. And given the way they tried to outrun U.S. troops, it's damn surprising that they weren't. A senseless tragedy, but life goes on.
It's a senseless tragedy, but you cannot blame U.S. troops for doing their job. It could just as easily have been a van full of suicide bombers. And given the way they tried to outrun U.S. troops, it's damn surprising that they weren't. A senseless tragedy, but life goes on.
I agree 100%...when it comes to us or them I will choose us every time.
Some of you guys can sit here and cry about it but its a different story when its YOU out there. Put yourself in their shoes and say you just lost 4 friends in that suicide attack. Your life is now being threatened by a van that wont stop AFTER you put bullets into the engine.
Im sorry, but if anyone thinks they did the wrong thing then they are truly retarded.
I can't speak for others or people that doing the shooting, but I can say it for myself as the civilian that was shot at & bombed on.
War is chaos and many people panic when sees checkpoints or guns, because they equate it to violent & killings. It doesn?t matter to the civilians, which side the guy with the gun is on, because civilians have seen both side kills.
It is an unfortunate thing that has to happen to the people that doing the shooting at the checkpoint, but no one put a gun to their heads and forces them to be there.
You are only defending yourself if someone invaded your home/country or attack you when you are traveling. When going to a country with the intend of killing or shoot at people in a war is not defending yourself, but can be equate to invading or just a hired thug that kill for money.
Let not cry about Vietnam because that was the past. And, by your book we shouldn't condemned Saddam for what he has done in the past because it is now the present.
All we have at the present is history to base out judgment on this situation therefore a crime that has done from the past should be use as a base comparison.
I personally have a lot of respect for you in the past, but it has changed since this terrible action that your government has created. I?m sure your & my feeling is not a rare current, that this war has successfully divided the heart and mind of the global community and maybe even America citizens.
The only positive thing this war has achieved is bringing together the Arabs/Muslim, and maybe empower the Muslim fanatics that America is trying to take down.
And, what America has successfully done is creating at least one Muslim fanatic for every civilian that has died in this war.
- Calley's just as much of an animal as these vermin. So what? He was a loose canon. This treatment of their civilians and POWs seems to be sponsored by the leaders there. They're SCUM!
- This "terrible action" is 12 years past due. 9-11 was the last straw. We're no longer waiting for these fanatics to have a foot hold.
- The Muslim fanatics are already running amok in the world, and the U.S.. They leave us no choice but to take them out... whose side are you on?
I'm not on anyone side, and if I must chose then it would be the civilians.Originally posted by: Ornery
Let not cry about Vietnam because that was the past. And, by your book we shouldn't condemned Saddam for what he has done in the past because it is now the present.
All we have at the present is history to base out judgment on this situation therefore a crime that has done from the past should be use as a base comparison.
I personally have a lot of respect for you in the past, but it has changed since this terrible action that your government has created. I?m sure your & my feeling is not a rare current, that this war has successfully divided the heart and mind of the global community and maybe even America citizens.
The only positive thing this war has achieved is bringing together the Arabs/Muslim, and maybe empower the Muslim fanatics that America is trying to take down.
And, what America has successfully done is creating at least one Muslim fanatic for every civilian that has died in this war.
- Calley's just as much of an animal as these vermin. So what? He was a loose canon. This treatment of their civilians and POWs seems to be sponsored by the leaders there. They're SCUM!
- This "terrible action" is 12 years past due. 9-11 was the last straw. We're no longer waiting for these fanatics to have a foot hold.
- The Muslim fanatics are already running amok in the world, and the U.S.. They leave us no choice but to take them out... whose side are you on?
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,563
- 9
- 81
You're siding with cilivians? Then you can tell us how they die. Do they get killed by stray US munitions? Or would you prefer they die to firing squads and from being thrown in wood chippers? Either way some will die.Originally posted by: lowtech
I'm not on anyone side, and if I must chose then it would be the civilians.Originally posted by: Ornery
Let not cry about Vietnam because that was the past. And, by your book we shouldn't condemned Saddam for what he has done in the past because it is now the present.
All we have at the present is history to base out judgment on this situation therefore a crime that has done from the past should be use as a base comparison.
I personally have a lot of respect for you in the past, but it has changed since this terrible action that your government has created. I?m sure your & my feeling is not a rare current, that this war has successfully divided the heart and mind of the global community and maybe even America citizens.
The only positive thing this war has achieved is bringing together the Arabs/Muslim, and maybe empower the Muslim fanatics that America is trying to take down.
And, what America has successfully done is creating at least one Muslim fanatic for every civilian that has died in this war.
- Calley's just as much of an animal as these vermin. So what? He was a loose canon. This treatment of their civilians and POWs seems to be sponsored by the leaders there. They're SCUM!
- This "terrible action" is 12 years past due. 9-11 was the last straw. We're no longer waiting for these fanatics to have a foot hold.
- The Muslim fanatics are already running amok in the world, and the U.S.. They leave us no choice but to take them out... whose side are you on?
Does the civilians have any saying in this or it is the US govenment is the one that choses the time, place, and method for them to die?Originally posted by: BoberFett
You're siding with cilivians? Then you can tell us how they die. Do they get killed by stray US munitions? Or would you prefer they die to firing squads and from being thrown in wood chippers? Either way some will die.Originally posted by: lowtech
I'm not on anyone side, and if I must chose then it would be the civilians.Originally posted by: Ornery
Let not cry about Vietnam because that was the past. And, by your book we shouldn't condemned Saddam for what he has done in the past because it is now the present.
All we have at the present is history to base out judgment on this situation therefore a crime that has done from the past should be use as a base comparison.
I personally have a lot of respect for you in the past, but it has changed since this terrible action that your government has created. I?m sure your & my feeling is not a rare current, that this war has successfully divided the heart and mind of the global community and maybe even America citizens.
The only positive thing this war has achieved is bringing together the Arabs/Muslim, and maybe empower the Muslim fanatics that America is trying to take down.
And, what America has successfully done is creating at least one Muslim fanatic for every civilian that has died in this war.
- Calley's just as much of an animal as these vermin. So what? He was a loose canon. This treatment of their civilians and POWs seems to be sponsored by the leaders there. They're SCUM!
- This "terrible action" is 12 years past due. 9-11 was the last straw. We're no longer waiting for these fanatics to have a foot hold.
- The Muslim fanatics are already running amok in the world, and the U.S.. They leave us no choice but to take them out... whose side are you on?
It is a hard thing to sell to the civilians when they were let down & hang to dry by the US a few years ago. Like I have said before Saddam is the devil that they know therefore they know exactly what he do to them. While they can't trust the US because it is something that they don't know & to make it worst the US has let Saddam killed them by encourage them in the last up rising.
If the Iraqis is anything like me then they would chose no war.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,563
- 9
- 81
Life must be grand when you bury your head in the sand and pretend bad things don't happen.
Sure, most people are against war. Even people that are for this war are against war in principle. But sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.
It would be nice if the Iraqis could just just say "Saddam, could you quit murdering people? We're really against violence." Somehow I don't think that'd help. So what's your other solution to rid the world of that kind of scum?
Originally posted by: lowtech
Does the civilians have any saying in this or it is the US govenment is the one that choses the time, place, and method for them to die?Originally posted by: BoberFett
You're siding with cilivians? Then you can tell us how they die. Do they get killed by stray US munitions? Or would you prefer they die to firing squads and from being thrown in wood chippers? Either way some will die.Originally posted by: lowtech
I'm not on anyone side, and if I must chose then it would be the civilians.Originally posted by: Ornery
Let not cry about Vietnam because that was the past. And, by your book we shouldn't condemned Saddam for what he has done in the past because it is now the present.
All we have at the present is history to base out judgment on this situation therefore a crime that has done from the past should be use as a base comparison.
I personally have a lot of respect for you in the past, but it has changed since this terrible action that your government has created. I?m sure your & my feeling is not a rare current, that this war has successfully divided the heart and mind of the global community and maybe even America citizens.
The only positive thing this war has achieved is bringing together the Arabs/Muslim, and maybe empower the Muslim fanatics that America is trying to take down.
And, what America has successfully done is creating at least one Muslim fanatic for every civilian that has died in this war.
- Calley's just as much of an animal as these vermin. So what? He was a loose canon. This treatment of their civilians and POWs seems to be sponsored by the leaders there. They're SCUM!
- This "terrible action" is 12 years past due. 9-11 was the last straw. We're no longer waiting for these fanatics to have a foot hold.
- The Muslim fanatics are already running amok in the world, and the U.S.. They leave us no choice but to take them out... whose side are you on?
It is a hard thing to sell to the civilians when they were let down & hang to dry by the US a few years ago. Like I have said before Saddam is the devil that they know therefore they know exactly what he do to them. While they can't trust the US because it is something that they don't know & to make it worst the US has let Saddam killed them by encourage them in the last up rising.
If the Iraqis is anything like me then they would chose no war.
so the US let them down 12 years ago when they FOLLOWED UN resolutions and began the CEASE-FIRE? What about the other 30 countires participating? Or does all the blame just go to the US?
We realize he should have been taken out, we ralize we are in part repsonsible for him having power and those WMD, but we are also willing to assume our obligation to help correct this mistake. France, Russia, China, and GErmany made deals with Saddam to assist in getting sanctions lifted early and to help him maintain power, which they tried very hard to do.
How much you know about war to call someone that against it is burying their head in the sand?
My family members has died under the North Vietnam (VC) guns & jails, and many of my family members has died under French & American bombs. I have been shot at by the VC & bombed on by the American, but luckily I'm still alive today to voice my opion on what war do to civilians & why we are againts the war. While having armchair generals that doesn't have a clue of what war is like that tell & dictating it to us.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,563
- 9
- 81
Sorry to hear you've had to live through that. But ignoring an oppressor won't make them go away.Originally posted by: lowtech
How much you know about war to call someone that against it is burying their head in the sand?
My family members has died under the North Vietnam (VC) guns & jails, and many of my family members has died under French & American bombs. I have been shot at by the VC & bombed on by the American, but luckily I'm still alive today to voice my opion on what war do to civilians & why we are againts the war. While having armchair generals that doesn't have a clue of what war is like that tell & dictating it to us.
Now you can hear the story from the civilians who were in the van:
Survivors tell of checkpoint tragedy
I feel very sad for these people. Funny, they don't mention anything about being forced to drive through the checkpoint by Saddam's men. Whatever, I'm not gonna make any more comments on it since I'll just be flamed for being anti-American.
Survivors tell of checkpoint tragedy
I feel very sad for these people. Funny, they don't mention anything about being forced to drive through the checkpoint by Saddam's men. Whatever, I'm not gonna make any more comments on it since I'll just be flamed for being anti-American.
skyking
Lifer
- Nov 21, 2001
- 22,002
- 4,757
- 146
Sad as hell.
My father was on Saipan at the age of 18, on night watch duty. His orders were to challenge any one, and if not immediately responded to, shoot.
He heard a noise in the dark, and challenged. the sounds kept coming. He fired.
He heard what he thought was a child crying many yards away, but he could not leave his post. The sounds eventually stopped.
In the daylight, they found a dead woman, a native apparently fleeing the Japanese-held territory. There was no sign of any child.
He did not tell me of this, I learned it from an uncle. He did not speak of the war.
This kind of atrocity happens under the fog of war, and everyone involved is scarred for life.
If the Iraqi people want to be liberated, they need to rise up and prove it first, before we commit our soldiers and their civilians and soldiers to the kinds of horrifying things that are happening and will continue to happen.
DT4K
Diamond Member
- Jan 21, 2002
- 6,944
- 3
- 81
Comments by prominent Shiite cleric who supposedly is in direct contact with people in Iraq
A Shiite Muslim cleric in Iraq claims the driver of the van at a U.S. checkpoint in which at least seven women and children were killed was forced to disobey the soldiers' orders to stop, thereby causing the civilian deaths, reports Fox News Channel.
Mohammed Barkir Al-Mohari said in a translated videotape that the incident outside Najaf in southern Iraq on Monday was purposely set up to give Saddam's regime grist for criticizing the United States....
Al-Mohari also claims the suicide bomber that struck over the weekend was told if he didn't carry out his mission his family would be killed, and that Saddam's regime gave the man's family hush money.
Fox says Al-Mohari, whom the network describes as an "influential cleric," says families have been threatened with mass killings and even chemical attacks in recent years if they didn't follow through with orders from the Iraqi regime to sacrifice themselves in suicide attacks.
"Those people, children and women, were put in the [van] by Saddam Hussein's forces," Al-Mohari said, "and their husbands and fathers were taken as hostages. And the driver was ordered to speed up at the checkpoint and not stop so that they would be shot at."
A Shiite Muslim cleric in Iraq claims the driver of the van at a U.S. checkpoint in which at least seven women and children were killed was forced to disobey the soldiers' orders to stop, thereby causing the civilian deaths, reports Fox News Channel.
Mohammed Barkir Al-Mohari said in a translated videotape that the incident outside Najaf in southern Iraq on Monday was purposely set up to give Saddam's regime grist for criticizing the United States....
Al-Mohari also claims the suicide bomber that struck over the weekend was told if he didn't carry out his mission his family would be killed, and that Saddam's regime gave the man's family hush money.
Fox says Al-Mohari, whom the network describes as an "influential cleric," says families have been threatened with mass killings and even chemical attacks in recent years if they didn't follow through with orders from the Iraqi regime to sacrifice themselves in suicide attacks.
"Those people, children and women, were put in the [van] by Saddam Hussein's forces," Al-Mohari said, "and their husbands and fathers were taken as hostages. And the driver was ordered to speed up at the checkpoint and not stop so that they would be shot at."
I've read your link. I can't seem to find a reference to thousands of vials of WMD. Could you please point it out to me. I got home from work about an hour ago and have had the news on since I walked in the door. Nobody has mentioned anything about this...I haven't even seen anything pass along the bottom of the screen about it.
Could someone please tell me what this tard, I mean Acanthus, is talking about.
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