flavio
Diamond Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 6,823
- 1
- 76
33 more civilians killed today...
....in an airstrike on a residenttial area. 11 people from the same family.
....in an airstrike on a residenttial area. 11 people from the same family.
apoppin
Lifer
Did I link it wrong?
Letsee, how MANY times does it say Iraq . . . "Iraqi Freedom" . . . your understanding of the war leaves much to be desired.
Plus - Sad'Damn Corny - I'd really appreciate it if you'd read my posts more carefully before criticizing what you make up. I never said it was the "SOLE" reason for the war - quite to the contrary.
Such a shock that you'll continue to post just to insult people, but won't respond to the allegations that were so bold as to tell me what my stance was, despite being wrong. Again, shows you won't ever admit you were wrong, despite how obvious it was.
To all the other people who have a level and cool head when posting, best of luck to you. I can't imagine trying to put up with such a narrow-minded person. I wash my hands of all of this. Congrats, you managed to be more of an ass that I could let myself be - your victory.
To all the other people who have a level and cool head when posting, best of luck to you. I can't imagine trying to put up with such a narrow-minded person. I wash my hands of all of this. Congrats, you managed to be more of an ass that I could let myself be - your victory.
apoppin
Lifer
Since it's from you, I guess it's not an "insult". Me calling corn a "name" is no different than his calling me a "name". I am not a pacifist to turn the other cheek to idiots . . . I am against THIS war and FOR America.
apoppin
Lifer
You don't read my posts at all!
I said war supporters in the US are a tiny minority of people ON THIS PLANET that (edit
ops) support the war.Think about it again.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Seems as though you delight in pointing out these sad deaths:disgust:
Blah Blah Blah - "I'm only trying to inform the blind followers of the Satan Bush"
Yes war sucks - yes war kills innocent people
It seems by your twisted logic that since the civial death toll has risen we should just quit this war and go home - what will that accomplish? Oh yeah - nothing except THOUSANDS of Iraqi people being killed by their own leader
War sucks but is very neccesary in this case - get of your freakin high-horse!
CkG
apoppin
Lifer
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Morph
Since the Iraqi prople have NOT risen up against Saddam we shouldn't expect reprisials if we left right now.Originally posted by: flavio
It seems by your twisted logic that since the civial death toll has risen we should just quit this war and go home - what will that accomplish? Oh yeah - nothing except THOUSANDS of Iraqi people being killed by their own leader
CkG
However, I propose a different scenario - since we are now there, send a major force into Baghdad - find the WMD and PROVE to the rest of the world that Saddam HAS WMD - take over Iraqi TV ands show his own people the WMD . . . then go BACK to the UN and argue for a United Nations effort with Arab soldiers to liberate Iraq.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Morph
Since the Iraqi prople have NOT risen up against Saddam we shouldn't expect reprisials if we left right now.Originally posted by: flavio
It seems by your twisted logic that since the civial death toll has risen we should just quit this war and go home - what will that accomplish? Oh yeah - nothing except THOUSANDS of Iraqi people being killed by their own leader
CkG
However, I propose a different scenario - since we are now there, send a major force into Baghdad - find the WMD and PROVE to the rest of the world that Saddam HAS WMD - take over Iraqi TV ands show his own people the WMD . . . then go BACK to the UN and argue for a United Nations effort with Arab soldiers to liberate Iraq.
So we only get one "time-out"
Your proposal sounds good in theory but it wouldn't work because you nay-sayers still won't believe he has them if we(USA) find them anyway
CkG
<--is off to the Billy Joel/ Elton John concert
Balibabydoc
I will respond directly to your statement.
I don't watch fox news because it is retarded. If the people in Isreal had walked towards a man with a bomb strapped to his chest and the man said stop, or i will blow myself up, and then they kept walking towards them, at which point he tried to limp away and then they ran up and tackled him, and he blew them up then so be it.
The military told them to stop, shot a warning shot and then shot into the engine.
For all you know they were forced to do it i.e. forced to charge the checkpoint for the purpose of being shot.
You have a very holier than thou attitude, but you apparently did not understand that the situations are castly different, the WTC was not warned that on 9/11 they would be struck by airliners, these people were warned, whatever problem you have with how the military dealt with the issue is a seperate idea.
If I were driving and military personel told me to stop I would stop, if they shot in front of me I would stop, if they shot into the engine block I would stop. Not stopping is stupid, if you would rather just say the people were either stupid, misinformed, or forced to do it that would be fine, but otherwise you have no point.
Saddam may well have put people on the bus, and he sure as hell did request a US invasion, all he had to do was what he promised and nothing would have happened. He should be happy now that he is getting his desert, he gets to fight the US and look glorious for a bunch of 3rd world folks, as well as killing hundreds more of his countrymen, which always seems to excite saddam.
I will respond directly to your statement.
I don't watch fox news because it is retarded. If the people in Isreal had walked towards a man with a bomb strapped to his chest and the man said stop, or i will blow myself up, and then they kept walking towards them, at which point he tried to limp away and then they ran up and tackled him, and he blew them up then so be it.
The military told them to stop, shot a warning shot and then shot into the engine.
For all you know they were forced to do it i.e. forced to charge the checkpoint for the purpose of being shot.
You have a very holier than thou attitude, but you apparently did not understand that the situations are castly different, the WTC was not warned that on 9/11 they would be struck by airliners, these people were warned, whatever problem you have with how the military dealt with the issue is a seperate idea.
If I were driving and military personel told me to stop I would stop, if they shot in front of me I would stop, if they shot into the engine block I would stop. Not stopping is stupid, if you would rather just say the people were either stupid, misinformed, or forced to do it that would be fine, but otherwise you have no point.
Saddam may well have put people on the bus, and he sure as hell did request a US invasion, all he had to do was what he promised and nothing would have happened. He should be happy now that he is getting his desert, he gets to fight the US and look glorious for a bunch of 3rd world folks, as well as killing hundreds more of his countrymen, which always seems to excite saddam.
No, I do not. I just can't help notice the way you war-supporters gloss over these reports. So yeah, I will keep pointing them out until you are forced to take notice and to give some kind of response.
It seems by your twisted logic that since the civial death toll has risen we should just quit this war and go home - what will that accomplish? Oh yeah - nothing except THOUSANDS of Iraqi people being killed by their own leader
I will not stop expressing my opinion about how wrong this war is just because it's already started. Even now, there are other alternatives to the continued loss of life that will occur if the US stays with it's current course. Even now there are diplomatic avenues to pursue, but George W Bush is too bull-headed to even consider them. The main reason that the Bush administration will never pull out of this war now is not concern for what would happen to the Iraqi people, it's about all the face that they would lose.
blamed his own troops for ignoring orders to fire a warning shot.
"You just fscking killed a family because you didn't fire a warning shot soon enough!", he reportedly yelled at them[/b].
In another checkpoint incident this morning, US forces say they killed an unarmed Iraqi driver outside Shatra. [/quote]
The OTHER viewpoint from a WESTERN source.[/quote]
You should not quote sources that lie so blatantly, but I guess if it serves your purpose.
lets see, he blamed them for ignoring to fire a warning shot, then a whole line later they contradict the statement saying the warning shot that was fired, was to late. Great source.
Sensationalism at its best, at least it shows that it is not propaganda though, if it were the person writing would not have stupid enough to make that statement.
"You just fscking killed a family because you didn't fire a warning shot soon enough!", he reportedly yelled at them[/b].
In another checkpoint incident this morning, US forces say they killed an unarmed Iraqi driver outside Shatra. [/quote]
The OTHER viewpoint from a WESTERN source.
[/quote]You should not quote sources that lie so blatantly, but I guess if it serves your purpose.
lets see, he blamed them for ignoring to fire a warning shot, then a whole line later they contradict the statement saying the warning shot that was fired, was to late. Great source.
Sensationalism at its best, at least it shows that it is not propaganda though, if it were the person writing would not have stupid enough to make that statement.
You obviously haven't even read any of the non-military-issued accounts coming out of this incident. Your just going by the "official" military response. There is a strong question of whether there was adequate warning given before this van was RIPPED INTO BY 25MM CANNON FIRE FROM A FRICKIN BRADLEY TANK!
Originally posted by: Morph
No, I do not. I just can't help notice the way you war-supporters gloss over these reports. So yeah, I will keep pointing them out until you are forced to take notice and to give some kind of response.
It seems by your twisted logic that since the civial death toll has risen we should just quit this war and go home - what will that accomplish? Oh yeah - nothing except THOUSANDS of Iraqi people being killed by their own leader
I will not stop expressing my opinion about how wrong this war is just because it's already started. Even now, there are other alternatives to the continued loss of life that will occur if the US stays with it's current course. Even now there are diplomatic avenues to pursue, but George W Bush is too bull-headed to even consider them. The main reason that the Bush administration will never pull out of this war now is not concern for what would happen to the Iraqi people, it's about all the face that they would lose.
I wish the war would be over and everyone could go home but that's not reality. If we back out now we lose a lot of things, respect being one as you point out. However you have to think that part of the reason we can't back out now is that a lot of the Iraqis are still pi$$ed at us b/c we didn't finish the job before and let those who helped us oppose Saddam in the first Gulf War high and dry......and Saddam killed them for it. We need to prove to them we are there for the long haul this time and won't let them be punished if they help us.
I think both the good and the bad reports should be pointed out and I understand that you point out a lot of the ones involving civilian death to make sure they don't get missed by those that point out only good reports. But these "alternatives" are??? These "diplomatic avenues" consist of ??? Everyone always says handle it differently, but gives no explanation on how to do it. If everyone is so smart and knows how to fix this situation I'm sure people would be glad to hear your proposals.
Morph, even in the most questionable reports, not as in untrue as in the troops screwed the pooch, there is not question that there was a sign that said stop, and that a person on a loud speaker was telling people to stop, the only question at all was whether they gave enough time on the warning shot.
When a bunch of armed men are at a check point with a sign saying STOP it behooves a person to take them seriously. I truly believe it is likely they did it on purpose, I mean in Saudi Arabia women aren't even allowed to drive, it is highly unlikely there would be a vehicle in that part of the world with only women and children it really is.
I am actually sad that it happened, regardless of why, I was just frustrated that people make such a ridiculous issue out of every incident. I mean whatever people say the amount of civillian casulaties is so much lower than in the past that it is just sad to see people freaking out about it, especially when Saddam is purposely trying to inflict civilian casulties by
A) dressing soldiers as civillians
B) operating from civillian areas on purpose
C) using civillians as sheikds
D) Ordering civillians shot if they try to flee the cities they are in or from the crossfire they are intentionally placed in by the Iraqi regime.
When I look at that, and I look at our media telling us how many civilians we have killed, and I look at Iraqi's propaganda I honesly find it slightly unusual that people are freakin out like they are but oh well.
When a bunch of armed men are at a check point with a sign saying STOP it behooves a person to take them seriously. I truly believe it is likely they did it on purpose, I mean in Saudi Arabia women aren't even allowed to drive, it is highly unlikely there would be a vehicle in that part of the world with only women and children it really is.
I am actually sad that it happened, regardless of why, I was just frustrated that people make such a ridiculous issue out of every incident. I mean whatever people say the amount of civillian casulaties is so much lower than in the past that it is just sad to see people freaking out about it, especially when Saddam is purposely trying to inflict civilian casulties by
A) dressing soldiers as civillians
B) operating from civillian areas on purpose
C) using civillians as sheikds
D) Ordering civillians shot if they try to flee the cities they are in or from the crossfire they are intentionally placed in by the Iraqi regime.
When I look at that, and I look at our media telling us how many civilians we have killed, and I look at Iraqi's propaganda I honesly find it slightly unusual that people are freakin out like they are but oh well.
apoppin
Lifer
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: apoppin
So we shouldn't try a possibly good proposal because "I" wouldn't believe it? Nonsense! I want the US action validated by the UN and the rest of the world taking responsibility for removing Saddam - truly UNITED action is what takes away the threat of Jihad.Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Morph
Since the Iraqi prople have NOT risen up against Saddam we shouldn't expect reprisials if we left right now.Originally posted by: flavio
It seems by your twisted logic that since the civial death toll has risen we should just quit this war and go home - what will that accomplish? Oh yeah - nothing except THOUSANDS of Iraqi people being killed by their own leader
CkG
However, I propose a different scenario - since we are now there, send a major force into Baghdad - find the WMD and PROVE to the rest of the world that Saddam HAS WMD - take over Iraqi TV ands show his own people the WMD . . . then go BACK to the UN and argue for a United Nations effort with Arab soldiers to liberate Iraq.
So we only get one "time-out"
Your proposal sounds good in theory but it wouldn't work because you nay-sayers still won't believe he has them if we(USA) find them anyway
CkG
<--is off to the Billy Joel/ Elton John concert
apoppin
Lifer
The OTHER viewpoint from a WESTERN source.
[/quote]You should not quote sources that lie so blatantly, but I guess if it serves your purpose.
lets see, he blamed them for ignoring to fire a warning shot, then a whole line later they contradict the statement saying the warning shot that was fired, was to late. Great source.
Sensationalism at its best, at least it shows that it is not propaganda though, if it were the person writing would not have stupid enough to make that statement.[/quote]
Try rereading it. Your criticism of it is invalid . . .
and it is a respected news source in Britain.
Here's an encore:
I guess you consider anything a LIE if it differs from your viewpoint.
apoppin
Lifer
Being respected does not make it true, repeating something many times does not make it true either actually sorry though.
apoppin
Lifer
Since you are NOT a respected news source, you keep repeating "it's not true, it's not true" like a mantra till YOU believe your own "story".
I'm tired of all this talk...
It's like this people... either we go in and kick some iraqi ass or later on down the road after sanctions have been lifted hussien builds a nuke and an ICBM to get it here. He has shown everybody that he is crazy enough to use them (on his own people for godsakes).
Yes, it sucks innocents get killed, but thats the nature of the game.
All of these NO WAR NO MATTER WHAT people are just sheep to the slaughter.
It's like this people... either we go in and kick some iraqi ass or later on down the road after sanctions have been lifted hussien builds a nuke and an ICBM to get it here. He has shown everybody that he is crazy enough to use them (on his own people for godsakes).
Yes, it sucks innocents get killed, but thats the nature of the game.
All of these NO WAR NO MATTER WHAT people are just sheep to the slaughter.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 9K
-
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 7K
-
Facebook
Twitter