Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[WHAMPOM]

1) Did I say that John called out anything in the quoted post?

2) From which witness is the 911 recording?

3) Is there something wrong with John's statement - is it fictional/self serving?

John's statement has TM facing away from him. 1) how else would TM know John was there? 2) the tape played to TM's mom and dad to see if they could ID it. If John 3)called out loud enough to be heard by TM would it not be on tape or recalled by another witness?

 

[spidey07]

John's statement has TM facing away from him. 1) how else would TM know John was there? 2) the tape played to TM's mom and dad to see if they could ID it. If John 3)called out loud enough to be heard by TM would it not be on tape or recalled by another witness?

Not likely over the blood curdling screams of zimmerman pleading for help and his very life at the top of his lungs as he was being brutally and viciously beaten.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Pretty much, unless I really know/trust the person.

Given that you refuse an open mind to look at evidence, refuse to accept statements, then what justification is there fir a trial.

From your POV, any witness is lying, Zimmerman is lying. The only person that is telling the truth must be TM.

TM overpowered GZ for the gun. In a moment of pity to what he did to GZ, turned the weapon on himself and shot himself.

Makes sense, you can not believe anyone, including the physical evidence. That had to have been rigged by supporters of GZ.

See how silly you sound. Any story can be made up and twisted.

It is evidence and witnesses (all of it, not cherry picked) that had to be evaluated.

If you have to twist evidence to fit a theory, gaping holes will show.

 

[EagleKeeper]

John's statement has TM facing away from him. 1) how else would TM know John was there? 2) the tape played to TM's mom and dad to see if they could ID it. If John 3)called out loud enough to be heard by TM would it not be on tape or recalled by another witness?

And TM has no ears?

What witness was there at the time that John was there?

Who made the 911 call?

Time frame relative to John's actions.

Or like another poster here. John's testimony is worthless?

And if John testimony is to be ignored, there is no justification to think that TM disengaged before the shot as if he had had enough of the street disrespect street lesson.

You are back to the physical evidence as to the final moments which have the injuries and ballistics and grass marks

 

[Darkman]

Zimmerman attorneys depose Trayvon Martin's stepmother, cousin

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
1:31 p.m. EDT, May 2, 2013

Read more: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/os-george-zimmerman-trial-brother-depo-20130502,0,3466608.story

 

[Darkman]

GZ CASE: Ongoing Thoughts…… The M-DSPD In The Courtroom (Perplexing)…

Posted on May 2, 2013 by sundance

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...ughts-the-m-dspd-in-the-courtroom-perplexing/

 

[Darkman]

Sanford police to knock on doors in black neighborhood today, hoping to improve image

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
11:58 a.m. EDT, May 2, 2013

Sanford's new police chief and other officers will be knocking on doors this afternoon in Goldsboro, an historic black neighborhood, part of a campaign to improve relations between the police department and Sanford's black community.

They have long been strained but hit a new low last year following the slaying of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black 17-year-old killed by Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman.

Sanford police did not arrest Zimmerman, something that set off protests across the country. He was eventually arrested and charged with second-degree murder after the governor appointed a special prosecutor.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ord-police-walk-talk-20130502,0,6816886.story

 

[Druidx]

He had two flashlights, the small one on his keychain would allow him to see to walk. Just because GZ says something and there's no proof otherwise, doesn't make it truth. Do you believe everything someone says without proof?

That's just the pamphlet, not the guidelines.

Again, you forget which side has the burden of proof.

I'm not sure what else you mean by the NW guidelines, that is what has always been posted in the past when the subject has come up. So now you want to claim he broke the NW guidelines which you admit you can't prove while at the same time asking me to prove you're wrong.

 

[werepossum]

You disagree that GZ has a documented history of violence? Hint, it's documented...it's minor, but it's there.

I know of one thing that might apply - his arrest. The judge didn't buy it, and neither would I. If I see someone grab a younger friend and start forcing him away without identifying himself as a cop AND showing a badge, damned straight I'd intervene too. The other thing, his ex's restraining order, is even more of a throwaway; those things are given out like candy and are often filed simply to harass. In his case he filed one back alleging that HE was the victim of violence and neither was ever pursued, so we can draw no reasonable conclusion from that.

It's possible. Impropable IMO given how I remember being as a teenager, but, possible. I'm not sure this explains the time being spent fully, I'd have to fully walk that out and see if someone just ambling around could actually manage to burn that amount of time (I guess if one goes slow or fast enough, anything is possible).

Maybe. I can remember killing a great deal of time to avoid going home, although there were no cell phones back then.

He wasn't aimlessly walking around.... All evidence indicates that he was casing houses, peering into garages, looking for an opportunity.


You race brigadiers want anyone who has to defend themselves with a weapon arrested........ If they're white.

Not "all evidence"; just Zimmerman's testimony and some very circumstantial though admittedly disturbing evidence that Martin MIGHT have been involved in burglary, dealing, or fencing. Even people flunking out of cop school can be wrong, and even burglars take occasional days off. We can assume that Zimmerman saw something in Martin's behavior that aroused his suspicion; we cannot reasonably assume that his suspicions were correct as we have no correlating evidence that night.

 

[echo4747]

I think everyone can agree that there was a verbal exchange which became physical at some point. We also know that somebody was screaming for help. We know GZ was aware that at least John was was watching this altercation. It is also reasonable to think with the repeated screams for help other residents could likely be watching too. We also know that GZ knew police were dispatched a while ago. (maybe were even there already)If he wasn't in fear of his life or severe bodily harm, why would GZ shoot TM when all these potential witnesses could be there? It just doesnt make sense.

 

[Druidx]

As previously pointed out, people are grasping at straws, probably out of desperation when they talk about his violent history. Do you remember the diversion program he participated in? It was for first-time nonviolent offenders. So what exactly do you consider his recorded violent history?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Not "all evidence"; just Zimmerman's testimony and some very circumstantial though admittedly disturbing evidence that Martin MIGHT have been involved in burglary, dealing, or fencing. Even people flunking out of cop school can be wrong, and even burglars take occasional days off. We can assume that Zimmerman saw something in Martin's behavior that aroused his suspicion; we cannot reasonably assume that his suspicions were correct as we have no correlating evidence that night.

Actually, all evidence does show that trayvon WAS involved in burglary, drug dealing, and trafficking stolen property.... At the very least.



Enough to 'convict' him of a crime? Well, not in this country, and I support that, just like I support one's inherent right to self defense from a brutal and unjustified attack.




But, the fact is, this little thug was up to no good that night considering the FACTS and EVIDENCE around his behaviour (zimmerman's statements, gas station videos).

 

[umbrella39]

I support every American's right to make shit up, TOO.


Enough to 'convict' him of a crime? Well, he is going to have his day in court soon.


But, the fact is, this fat thug was up to no good that night considering the FACTS and EVIDENCE around his behavior (zimmerman's statements, 911 call).

 

[emperus]

As previously pointed out, people are grasping at straws, probably out of desperation when they talk about his violent history. Do you remember the diversion program he participated in? It was for first-time nonviolent offenders. So what exactly do you consider his recorded violent history?

Facts really don't matter to you GZ supporters... But here are some

In early 2005, he was arrested outside of a bar and charged with resisting a police officer with violence. Ordinarily, this would have resulted in jail time and a felony, however the charges were reduced to resisting an officer without violence, and Zimmerman avoided conviction by entering a pre-trial diversion program of alcohol education. In the state of Florida, pre-trial diversion programs are generally only available to first time offenders charged with misdemeanors or nonviolent felonies.
Later in 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiance, Veronica Zuaco filed a “civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence”. Zimmerman later counter filed for a restraining order against Zuaco, both orders were granted.
Beginning in 2004, and ending with the 911 call the night of Trayvon Martin’s death, George Zimmerman placed at least 47 publicly documented complaints to police. Two of these calls, made while Zimmerman resided in Lake Mary, were placed in reference to an ex-roommate who was allowing people Zimmerman did not like into his apartment. Zimmermnan also called to report people throwing items at his truck.
In 2004, Zimmerman called the police reporting having seen a man steal a television, and remained on the line while following the purported thief until police arrived to handle the situation. In the same year, Zimmerman again pursued an individual whom he claimed had spit on him, after having called the police to report the offense. There are no records of arrests made in either case. In addition to the reports stated above, Zimmerman made several calls about open garage doors, unattended dogs, and suspicious vehicles in his community in Lake Mary.
George Zimmerman was married in 2007, to cosmetologist Shellie Nicole Dean, and in 2009 the couple moved to a gated community named “The Retreat At Twin Lakes” in Sanford, Florida, located a few miles from their previous residence. He began taking classes in law enforcement at Seminole State University, and took charge of his new community’s neighborhood watch program. He arranged neighborhood watch and safety trainings for the community which were conducted by members of the Sanford Police Department.
By all reports, Zimmerman took leading the neighborhood watch very seriously. On multiple occasions, calls from him to the Sanford Police are documented reporting suspicious individuals in the Twin Lakes community. In each of the “suspicious individual” complaints, it is noted that said suspicious individuals were african-american males.
The last call to the Sanford Police placed by George Zimmerman was placed the night of February 26th, 2012. Police arrived to find George Zimmerman standing next to a dead Trayvon Martin. George Zimmerman claimed self defense, and was taken in to the Sanford Police Department for questioning. He was later released, and although the lead investigator on his case recommended a manslaughter charge to State Attorney Norm Wolfinger, the recommendation was turned down as Wolfinger deemed there to be not enough evidence.

Interesting part in red for those still arguing that GZ did not follow TM. What do you think changed in his behavior from those incidents where he followed the suspects to the incident of TM?

 

[emperus]

More documented violence..

Usually he was just a cool guy,” said the former co-worker, who the newspaper didn't name. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When dude snapped, he snapped.” The Daily News said Zimmerman earned $50 to $100 a night for the parties. He was fired for being too aggressive with patrons.
“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the newspaper quoted the former co-worker as saying. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”

 

[TerryMathews]

More documented violence..

An anonymous story. How is this any different than the tweet about swinging in a bus driver?

 

[emperus]

And this..

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2706141/trayvon-martins-shooter-had-a.html

According to the Miami Herald, Zuazo said that three years earlier, Zimmerman attacked her while the two were driving to a counseling session. Zuazo said she popped her gum in his face and he repeatedly smacked her in the face. In January 2002, she added, Zimmerman became enraged that she had come home late. They wrestled and he threw her on the bed, smacking her, according to the newspaper

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2706141/trayvon-martins-shooter-had-a.htmlhttp://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2706141/trayvon-martins-shooter-had-a.html

 

[emperus]

An anonymous story. How is this any different than the tweet about swinging in a bus driver?

Yes. I guess a major newspaper reporter who interviewed someone on the condition of anonymity is no different than a tweet. Good GOSh. STFU. Do you care that you make yourself look stupid?

 

[emperus]

And this

In September 2003, Zimmerman called police and reported that another motorist spat on him, according to reports, Zimmerman followed the man in his car until the police arrived. Daniel Osmun, the other driver, told police that Zimmerman was tailgating and that he spit his gum out the window "out of frustration."
Osum said that Zimmerman then pulled alongside of him, and the two argued. In a police report of the incident, Osum said “at one point, he thought Mr. Zimmerman was going to attack him." No charges were filed against either man.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

And this..

Looks like your link is broken

The Miami Herald > Errors > 404

Unfortunately we are unable to locate the page you have requested. This could be due to content on our site having expired, a broken link, an outdated bookmark, or a mistyped address. Please use the navigation and search box provided on this page, or click here to visit our home page.

 

[emperus]

And this,

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html

At an emergency homeowner’s association meeting on March 1, days after the killing, “one man was escorted out because he openly expressed his frustration because he had previously contacted the Sanford Police Department about Zimmerman approaching him and even coming to his home,” a resident who spoke on the condition of anonymity told HuffPost. “It was also made known that there had been several complaints about George Zimmerman and his tactics" in his neighborhood watch role.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1340358.htmlhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html

 

[Londo_Jowo]

And this

No violence history found as there's no conviction to prove such

No charges were filed against either man.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Facts really don't matter to you GZ supporters... But here are some



Interesting part in red for those still arguing that GZ did not follow TM. What do you think changed in his behavior from those incidents where he followed the suspects to the incident of TM?

From your quote

In the state of Florida, pre-trial diversion programs are generally only available to first time offenders charged with misdemeanors or nonviolent felonies.

Again no violent history found

 

[emperus]

Looks like your link is broken

Didn't mean to link it. But if you want to see where it is from, put a sentence from it in Google search encased by quotes and it should find the story.

Ex.. "......"

 

[SpatiallyAware]

An anonymous story. How is this any different than the tweet about swinging in a bus driver?

Yup... Many of these anonymous claims were made literally days after tracy martin and crump got together.

I guess they had to form a game plan.... What's the best way to get zimmerman charged, 'justice and evidence' be damned?