Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[werepossum]

If he did that, he'd be at 6 which is lets say his house, then you're saying back towards the center of the T from his house via how? 6 (his house)-5-4 or to the right of the right side houses then in the direction of 5-4, then through the cut through, and then now back to 5-6? Basically a rectangle?

Yes, a rectangle. Could have equally been clockwise rather than widdershins, too.

Note that this is completely a wild ass guess and is founded upon the twin assumptions that Martin did not particularly want to go home and had no interest in ambushing or otherwise attacking Zimmerman. Many other permutations are certainly possible, all the way from Martin intentionally ambushing and attempting to kill Zimmerman in the "alley" to Martin attempting to lose Zimmerman by traveling between and around the homes and simply blundering into his dogged pursuer. I intentionally chose the one that assumed no ill intentions on either part.

 

[soundforbjt]

Wow...quoted. Just...wow...

You guys are interpreting what I said all wrong. I am not saying GZ deserved to be attacked (though that's up to debate, since we don't know who started it). No one deserves to be out-right attacked. What I meant is, since he took a life because he ignored sound advice, he has to now face the consequences.

 

[EagleKeeper]

You guys are interpreting what I said all wrong. I am not saying GZ deserved to be attacked (though that's up to debate, since we don't know who started it). No one deserves to be out-right attacked. What I meant is, since he took a life because he ignored sound advice, he has to now face the consequences.

What sound advice did he ignore? "We do not need you to do that"

Proof or speculation?

Martin also apparently ignored sound advice.
Look at his consequences

 

[soundforbjt]

Hopefully people will take this as a lesson to not viciously attack innocent people AND to not lightly get into situations where you may have to shoot your way out.


I disagree with, well, all of that.

You disagree that GZ has a documented history of violence? Hint, it's documented...it's minor, but it's there.

 

[soundforbjt]

What sound advice did he ignore? "We do not need you to do that"

Proof or speculation?

Martin also apparently ignored sound advice.
Look at his consequences

That, plus the NW guidelines which he started. I'm sure he recieved a copy at the meeting he requested. Yes, the guidelines have been scrubbed from the Sanford site, so I can't prove that right now, I'm sure they will be read in court.

As to the proof or speculation, GZ can't or won't account for the "missing" 2-3 minutes in his account.

 

[chucky2]

Yes, a rectangle. Could have equally been clockwise rather than widdershins, too.

Note that this is completely a wild ass guess and is founded upon the twin assumptions that Martin did not particularly want to go home and had no interest in ambushing or otherwise attacking Zimmerman. Many other permutations are certainly possible, all the way from Martin intentionally ambushing and attempting to kill Zimmerman in the "alley" to Martin attempting to lose Zimmerman by traveling between and around the homes and simply blundering into his dogged pursuer. I intentionally chose the one that assumed no ill intentions on either part.

It's possible. Impropable IMO given how I remember being as a teenager, but, possible. I'm not sure this explains the time being spent fully, I'd have to fully walk that out and see if someone just ambling around could actually manage to burn that amount of time (I guess if one goes slow or fast enough, anything is possible).

 

[chucky2]

You guys are interpreting what I said all wrong. I am not saying GZ deserved to be attacked (though that's up to debate, since we don't know who started it). No one deserves to be out-right attacked. What I meant is, since he took a life because he ignored sound advice, he has to now face the consequences.

He took a life because he was being beaten, not because he ignored sound advice. Unless you're someone who thinks civilians should cower in fear in their homes while shady characters (to them, from GZ perspective) roam their neighborhoods, what did GZ did that night was legal and proper. What kind of person are you that in your own neighborhood, having crime done by one type of aggressor, that you'd see such aggressor out at night, call the cops, he runs and gets away in the direction the others have gotten away, and you have the opportunity to actually help the police potentially nab one of these guys (and, if it's not one of these guys, no harm no foul he'll be let go), and just sit in your car and go home??? Because the 911 operator who is more concerned with your safety than they are of catching guys Fing with your neighborhood insta reads on their screen to tell you not to do that?

That's not the kind of people I want in my neighborhood. I'd like to hope my neighbors care like I would/do, not do a call and then say Ah F it, let the police handle it. WTF is America coming to...

 

[soundforbjt]

He took a life because he was being beaten, not because he ignored sound advice. Unless you're someone who thinks civilians should cower in fear in their homes while shady characters (to them, from GZ perspective) roam their neighborhoods, what did GZ did that night was legal and proper. What kind of person are you that in your own neighborhood, having crime done by one type of aggressor, that you'd see such aggressor out at night, call the cops, he runs and gets away in the direction the others have gotten away, and you have the opportunity to actually help the police potentially nab one of these guys (and, if it's not one of these guys, no harm no foul he'll be let go), and just sit in your car and go home??? Because the 911 operator who is more concerned with your safety than they are of catching guys Fing with your neighborhood insta reads on their screen to tell you not to do that?

That's not the kind of people I want in my neighborhood. I'd like to hope my neighbors care like I would/do, not do a call and then say Ah F it, let the police handle it. WTF is America coming to...

So, you'd rather have teens shot dead by a neighbor, being followed/chased for committing no observed crime? I wouldn't want my kids living in your neighborhood.

 

[OCNewbie]

What interview?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWyzw-UM_WU&t=59m33s

Serino: "(something) fast walking maybe?"

GZ: "No, it was just windy"

Serino: "Yeah it was"

 

[OCNewbie]

So, you'd rather have teens shot dead by a neighbor, being followed/chased for committing no observed crime? I wouldn't want my kids living in your neighborhood.

That's not why he was "shot dead", and I hope you don't actually believe that.

ETA: and again, you use the "chase" word again... when was there a chase?

 

[Druidx]

That, plus the NW guidelines which he started. I'm sure he recieved a copy at the meeting he requested. Yes, the guidelines have been scrubbed from the Sanford site, so I can't prove that right now, I'm sure they will be read in court.

As to the proof or speculation, GZ can't or won't account for the "missing" 2-3 minutes in his account.

Here is a copy of the sandford NW guide
http://www.scribd.com/doc/87073326/NWProgramHandbook

GZ did account for the missing time. During his interview at the station, he said he delayed walking back to his truck because he was concerned about going back down the dark cut through without a working flashlight since he didn't know where TM was.

 

[OCNewbie]

And why would anyone believe what an alleged killer would say? He has every reason to lie. And how could Serino confirm the wind was blowing at that time (during the call) when he (Serino) wasn't even there?

Just because he's an "alleged" killer (actually he's a confirmed killer, but an alleged murderer) does not mean one should automatically default to assuming everything he's saying is a lie; you seem to embrace that mindset for whatever reason.

Just because you can imagine why, if he's actually guilty of his alleged crime, he would want to lie does not mean he is actually lying. It would be absolutely prudent to scrutinize his story, and look for proof that he's lying. If you can find proof that's he's lying about the events directly related to why he's now an alleged murderer, then you can start questioning his whole story. But what proof do we have he has lied about the events from the time he notices TM, til the time he fires the shot?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

He wasn't aimlessly walking around.... All evidence indicates that he was casing houses, peering into garages, looking for an opportunity.


You race brigadiers want anyone who has to defend themselves with a weapon arrested........ If they're white.

 

[soundforbjt]

Here is a copy of the sandford NW guide
http://www.scribd.com/doc/87073326/NWProgramHandbook

GZ did account for the missing time. During his interview at the station, he said he delayed walking back to his truck because he was concerned about going back down the dark cut through without a working flashlight since he didn't know where TM was.

He had two flashlights, the small one on his keychain would allow him to see to walk. Just because GZ says something and there's no proof otherwise, doesn't make it truth. Do you believe everything someone says without proof?

That's just the pamphlet, not the guidelines.

 

[soundforbjt]

That's not why he was "shot dead", and I hope you don't actually believe that.

ETA: and again, you use the "chase" word again... when was there a chase?

When GZ got out of his truck instead of waiting for police, like he always had done before.

 

[OCNewbie]

When GZ got out of his truck instead of waiting for police, like he always had done before.

How many of the "times before" was GZ in his vehicle at the time he called? How many times before had the "suspect" returned from where he was to circle GZ's vehicle? How many times before had the "suspect" ran/fled while GZ was on the phone with dispatch? How many times before had the dispatcher said "He's running? Which way is he running?" to give GZ a reason to get out of his vehicle?

Again, you have no proof that GZ was running, or moving in a manner one moves when they're chasing someone. And the only story we have about that moment is GZ's, and he says TM had just made the right, south down the T, when GZ got out of his vehicle. How does he "chase" him when the person being chased isn't aware (as you've even said) that the chaser is in pursuit? What evidence is there that GZ was in chase mode at that time anyway? Did GZ say he was chasing TM? Who else has said it that would have knowledge of the event? Even DD never said chase, she always said "following".

 

[OCNewbie]

Do you believe everything someone says without proof?

Do you assume everything someone says is a lie without proof?

 

[soundforbjt]

Do you assume everything someone says is a lie without proof?

Pretty much, unless I really know/trust the person.

 

[OCNewbie]

Pretty much, unless I really know/trust the person.

Well, that explains a lot

 

[spidey07]

So, you'd rather have teens shot dead by a neighbor, being followed/chased for committing no observed crime? I wouldn't want my kids living in your neighborhood.

Absolutely I want teens who commit vicious and brutal acts of violence shot when they commit aggrivated assault and battery against an innocent victim of the neighborhood bashing their skull into the concrete. Needs to happen more.

Are you ready to present any evidence martin did not commit aggravated assault and battery, which as you know by now is a forcible felony?

C'mon...just one bit.

 

[soundforbjt]

Well, that explains a lot

In my business you get alot of people leaving (very important) things out in conversations. You learn to ask alot of questions to get verification, or you get screwed.

 

[spidey07]

In my business you get alot of people leaving (very important) things out in conversations. You learn to ask alot of questions to get verification, or you get screwed.

So the intensive police questioning and re-enactment, without an attorney present, aren't enough for you?

Are you ready to present evidence against zimmerman's account of events in the face of overwhelming evidence that backs up his evidence?

 

[soundforbjt]

So the intensive police questioning and re-enactment, without an attorney present, aren't enough for you?

Are you ready to present evidence against zimmerman's account of events in the face of overwhelming evidence that backs up his evidence?

His first questioning at the scene was not by a homicide detective and done very poorly. I believe it allowed GZ to get his "story" in line for the subsequent questioning.

 

[spidey07]

His first questioning at the scene was not by a homicide detective and done very poorly. I believe it allowed GZ to get his "story" in line for the subsequent questioning.

And that story just so happened to line up with all the other evidence that he could not have possibly known about?

You have some evidence of a crime commited by zimmerman? You have any evidence martin did not commit a forcible felony? Just one bit...c'mon! Something based in truth or evidence would cause you to "feel" this way other than racism...you must have something other than racism to ignore fact and truth...there must be something?

 

[OCNewbie]

His first questioning at the scene was not by a homicide detective and done very poorly. I believe it allowed GZ to get his "story" in line for the subsequent questioning.

Proof of the underlined?

If I'm not mistaken, that "first detective" was Detective Singleton, who interviewed him throughout the various SPD interviews (along with Serino).