Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[Geosurface]

Well it seems Trayvon was passed around between two parents, and then Tracy's current wife Alicia, and also Brandy Green his current girlfriend... PLUS an Uncle. That might be it or there might be more.

I think he had a lot of absentee "adults" in his life making various half-hearted stabs at raising him, and disciplining him, etc.

At another site I saw someone put two and two together about the fact that Tracy contacted a lawyer the same day as he had told officers it wasn't Trayvon screaming in the tapes, and they thought maybe initially his motivation in bringing an attorney on was to prepare himself for any sort of action against him due to his minor son assaulting someone in that way (I believe in Florida parents can in fact be held responsible for criminal acts like that by minor children)

But then the attorneys convinced him maybe the best defense was a good offense, and maybe Crump saw another Martin Lee Anderson style dollar sign type situation.

Who knows? Just a theory I saw floated.

 

[Darkman]

So pretty good chance you figure, that soon Trayvon parents are going to go ...chi ching, chi ching?

... payday! :biggrin:

 

[Darkman]

And the news of the days is......

Trayvon Martin protester would rather die than use gun in self-defense
By Jessica Chasmar - The Washington Times, Thursday, February 28, 2013
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/28/trayvon-martin-protester-would-rather-die-use-gun-/

... lol .. check the Comments ... some dude goes: "works for me" )))

 

[WHAMPOM]

So you're cynical and world-weary enough to believe the jewelry is stolen, and to believe Trayvon was lying about not knowing who his thief-friend was...

but you're somehow at the same time not cynical or shrewd enough to realize that it was Trayvon himself?

Why in hell's name would you hand over an expensive, expansive Larceny-O Haul to your friend for safekeeping? His thief-friend didn't have his own backpack? It makes zero sense.

More importantly: why the screwdriver?

Did his thief-friend hand over his burglary tool too?

You're almost there WHAMPOM... but I need you to get a little bit more cynical.

Sorry the term you should use for me is realist, to agree with you would take me beyond cynical to the land of delusional.

 

[QueBert]

So you're cynical and world-weary enough to believe the jewelry is stolen, and to believe Trayvon was lying about not knowing who his thief-friend was...

but you're somehow at the same time not cynical or shrewd enough to realize that it was Trayvon himself?

Why in hell's name would you hand over an expensive, expansive Larceny-O Haul to your friend for safekeeping? His thief-friend didn't have his own backpack? It makes zero sense.

More importantly: why the screwdriver?

Did his thief-friend hand over his burglary tool too?

You're almost there WHAMPOM... but I need you to get a little bit more cynical.

I went to an inner city school, and gee I dunno maybe 50 times in the 2 1/2 years I went there I had shit shoved in my back pack. Why? Because the person who did it knew school security, or police even were looking for them. It's very common for a person who knows they're on the verge of getting busted to off load whatever they have that's evidence onto someone else. And at least at my school, I couldn't say "no" to the person who was cramming a $1,500 car phone into my bag. They didn't stop and think "hummm this gold herring bone necklace is worth $10,000 I dunno if I should just put it in his backpack. It's "oh shit if I get caught with this I'm going back to Juvie" And snitching on him would mean my ass gets handed to me. And a good portion of the school would hate my ass when word got out what I did.

I spent many days in the office talking to campus security and police, and every single time I played dumb. I didn't want to, but sometimes you have no other choice.

 

[Geosurface]

I went to an inner city school, and gee I dunno maybe 50 times in the 2 1/2 years I went there I had shit shoved in my back pack. Why? Because the person who did it knew school security, or police even were looking for them. It's very common for a person who knows they're on the verge of getting busted to off load whatever they have that's evidence onto someone else. And at least at my school, I couldn't say "no" to the person who was cramming a $1,500 car phone into my bag. They didn't stop and think "hummm this gold herring bone necklace is worth $10,000 I dunno if I should just put it in his backpack. It's "oh shit if I get caught with this I'm going back to Juvie" And snitching on him would mean my ass gets handed to me. And a good portion of the school would hate my ass when word got out what I did.

I spent many days in the office talking to campus security and police, and every single time I played dumb. I didn't want to, but sometimes you have no other choice.

Well that is a very interesting, and conveniently applicable account. Thank you.

Let me just point out that I think the fact that Trayvon was being sought for graffiti might make him a likely person to offload the stuff from his backpack.

Or, maybe his friend he wouldn't name just chose a really bad mule for his loot, and his burglary tool, given the fact that seemingly Trayvon was serially suspended and constantly in trouble with the school officials. The report apparently mentioned nothing about the school thinking it might be connected to another specific student or anything like that.

I mean who knows, anything's possible?

But Trayvon was most certainly a delinquent, we have independent things pointing in that direction. He was also visiting a community which had been experiencing a recent rash of burglaries, on a regular basis.

 

[WHAMPOM]

You have TM supporters claiming that he could have been telling the truth regarding the friend.

All the school incident and others unanswered social media issues do is allow an attempt at understanding TM actions and possibly justification of a higher degree of GZ profiling.

It also dispels the concept of the cherub that Crimp and family have tried to portray.

The friends are not going to talk smack and as you say no one will tell tbe truth if it puts Martin in a bad light.

Because of trying to paint the cherub, as info became available, it wetted appetites for more details that seemed to be suppressed/overlooked.

If anyone paints a picture of a teen as a perfect cherub, I will think future serial killer smart enough to cover his tracks. LOL that is just not normal!
As research into the truth shows it was not Trayvon's 12 year old photo but him at 16 and not George wearing inmate orange but his own choice of day ware. So the media/crump/family portrayal of Trayvon as a cherub was only in the minds of those outraged by it. There is a lot of false outrage and misinformation to be found here.

 

[OCNewbie]

As research into the truth shows it was not Trayvon's 12 year old photo but him at 16 and not George wearing inmate orange but his own choice of day ware.

I asked you for a link to the bolded previously, and you either chose not to provide one, or missed my post. Please provide a link that details when the photo was taken.

I found this link: http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/...rge-zimmerman-why-you-may-not-see-the-others/

The dominant photo of Martin shows him 13 or 14 years old, wearing a red Hollister T-shirt.

 

[Geosurface]

As research into the truth shows it was not Trayvon's 12 year old photo but him at 16

That is one HELL of a growth spurt!

 

[Tom]

It was not REPORTED stolen to Miami-Dade PD based on the description sent.
That is the conclusion/statement.

There are two other counties that are wealthy within a hours drive.
Were those reports checked. By MDPD. probably not.

So ? I think you'd agree that's speculative, not based on any actual information. It only exists because its important that Martin be a bad guy.


That is very different than an actual investigation that cannot even establish it was stolen. You see, that is an actual fact, something that actually took place in the real world.

 

[Darkman]

George Zimmerman’s attorney: We’re not trying to ‘demonize’ Trayvon Martin
http://thegrio.com/2013/02/28/what-trayvon-martin-looked-like

 

[Dr. Zaus]

That is one HELL of a growth spurt!

Sad what our society does to otherwise good people.

But there's no doubt that he's dead because he's black.

 

[Geosurface]

Why do I get the feeling that maybe, just maybe, a lot of the people that are giving Trayvon every possibly benefit of the doubt, every stretch of the imagination they can muster to keep him as innocent in their minds as possible...

might have been considerably more cynical about him had THEY been the ones to see him slinking around that night. How many Trayvon-supporters would have had the exact same "who is this little thug?" type reaction GZ did? Maybe they wouldn't have done anything else GZ did, from that point on... but I just wonder about at least that initial reaction.

 

[Geosurface]

Sad what our society does to otherwise good people.

But there's no doubt that he's dead because he's black.

Both lines of your reply confused me.

With sincere respect, I'd ask you to explain what you meant... please?

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Both lines of your reply confused me.

With sincere respect, I'd ask you to explain what you meant... please?

I mean this was a good kid, and the way we've perverted the part of the black community that perverted him (as one can see in the second image) is incredibly sad.

Further, no matter your perspective, TM either lived a thug-life and brought it on himself by attacking, or GZ was latently racist and chased down the "scary-other" hooded black. In either case, there's no doubt the child would be alive today if he were born white.


And no matter the cause: that his skin color is what killed this kid is the real tragedy.

 

[Geosurface]

there's no doubt the child would be alive today if he were born white.

And no matter the cause: that his skin color is what killed this kid is the real tragedy.

I'd certainly never assert the percentages were anywhere near equivalent, but you don't think there is any % of white kids who grow up with that same sort of thug mentality and hair trigger temper (reacting with violence etc)??

I certainly think there are some. Perhaps if he hadn't had success with music, Eminem would be one such.

I see white kids like that from time to time. They're less common but they exist.

 

[Darkman]

One year after killing Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman says he’s too fat for trial (PICTURED)​

http://www.ynaija.com/one-year-afte...immerman-says-hes-too-fat-for-trial-pictured/​

 

[OCNewbie]

I mean this was a good kid, and the way we've perverted the part of the black community that perverted him (as one can see in the second image) is incredibly sad.

Do you mean "we" as society as a whole?

Further, no matter your perspective, TM either lived a thug-life and brought it on himself by attacking, or GZ was latently racist and chased down the "scary-other" hooded black. In either case, there's no doubt the child would be alive today if he were born white.

Regarding the bold, there's an endless number of other alterations to TM's past that would have him alive today as well. Him being black did not obligate him to make any of the choices he made (such as the ones responsible for his suspension, which is why he was in Sanford that night). Or how about if his father had never met Brandy Green? They would have never had a reason to be in that neighborhood.

And no matter the cause: that his skin color is what killed this kid is the real tragedy.

That statement attempts to completely disregard TM's ability of free will. His choices killed him, not his skin color.

 

[Tom]

"His choices killed him"

that really is an outrageous thing to say.

 

[OCNewbie]

"His choices killed him"

that really is an outrageous thing to say.

Ok... his choices lead to his death... that better?

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Do you mean "we" as society as a whole?

Right, it's a reflection of a deeper sociological problem.

That statement attempts to completely disregard TM's ability of free will.

Upon what philosophical or empirical ground do you think a teenager has free will?

This is the sort of thing we say to make deliver ourselves from responsibility as a society. It also self-aggrandizes those of us that do well in life. If you've ever faced true poverty and ignorance you know that they don't 'choose' it. Be it the racist-ignorance of GZ or the ignorance of TM.

Him being black did not obligate him to make any of the choices he made

nope; but the life-situation in which many black children are placed in the US do pervert them. Which is also the cause of racism.

And that's on all of us.

 

[OCNewbie]

Upon what philosophical or empirical ground do you think a teenager has free will?

This is the sort of thing we say to make deliver ourselves from responsibility as a society. It also self-aggrandizes those of us that do well in life. If you've ever faced true poverty and ignorance you know that they don't 'choose' it. Be it the racist-ignorance of GZ or the ignorance of TM.

How did the young black man that grew up in the same neighborhood TM grew up in, had many of the same friends and influences, and therefore grew up in the same society TM grew up in avoid such a fate, and made a success of himself? Pure luck/chance? Was it a predisposition that TM had from birth that, when combined with the society he lived in, destined for him to succumb to such a fate?

Regarding the ignorance: How do you combat that?

 

[Darkman]

'Absolutely no racism'
http://www.indianapolisrecorder.com/news/national/article_15ecff4a-81c1-11e2-889e-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[Darkman]

Robert Zimmerman Opens Up About Life Since Trayvon Martin Tragedy

Not only did Robert move to Florida from Virginia to serve as the family's spokesperson, but his day-to-day activities are strained because of the last name he carries.

"We don't even say hi to the next door neighbor or look at the cashier in the eye or talk to the guy at the gas station," Robert Zimmerman said.

"Your entire human interaction is the people you grew up with. It's this survivor island."

The family stays inside most times, talking about the case or distracting themselves with traditions such as Sunday Salsa nights. As a result of the isolation, Robert says Trayvon's killer has gained 100 pounds. When Robert does step outside, he wears bulletproof vests, but it doesn't protect him from being confronted in public by those who have already marked his brother as guilty for the crime.

http://www.bet.com/news/national/20...-about-life-since-trayvon-martin-tragedy.html

or [full] original source:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...in-george-zimmerman-racial-profiling/1949219/

 

[Dr. Zaus]

How did the young black man that grew up in the same neighborhood TM grew up in, had many of the same friends and influences, and therefore grew up in the same society TM grew up in avoid such a fate, and made a success of himself?

A lot of unsubstantiatable assumptions underly the substantiatable statements that make your question reasonable.

Are you sticking to the 'free will' argument? If so, I can address your thoughts if you explain why you believe in the concept.

Regarding the ignorance: How do you combat that?

By reducing the socio-economic disparity that is at the core of the 'othering' of some parts of the black community.