Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[Druidx]

In showing this behavior and those feelings for Trayvon when he sets off after him, it's clear that he got out of his car for a reason. And that reason was to stop that fucking punk from getting away.

It's to bad the funking punk decided to come back and attack GZ after having already gotten away.

 

[soundforbjt]

This is such a stupid thing to argue... Cracked versus broken nose, lacerations versus wounds versus whatever...

There is plenty of videos and pics from zimmerman that night, ALL show his nose was "modified" by trayvon, ALL show blood and gaping wounds on the back of his head, ALL show facial bruising and imprints from trayvons hands holding zimmerman's head as he repeated attempted to kill him with the sidewalk. ALL of the evidence perfectly corroborates this.

These little details you are arguing regarding the severity of his injuries have zero relevance. We're talking about self-defense here, it is completely unreasonable to expect someone to know which blow will kill them, just so that at that exact moment it's "safe" to shoot the vicious attacker.

IF the bolded is true, why does the blood run in the pattern it does in the first picture taken by the resident? If he was on his back, wouldn't the blood be flowing more downwards towards his neck?

 

[Perknose]

The Queen of Freaking England wearing a hoodie!

Also I know you're being facetious...

Well, at least there's that . . . :biggrin:

It's a pattern of life choices trayvon made, about how to live and represent himself.

None of what Trayvon did, including getting involved in fisticuffs after being aggressively pursued by young George, merit his vigilante "execution", imho.

Zimmerman will likely be exonerated at trial. Given what we know and what we really don't know, this is probably the narrowly correct outcome of that.

However, it does not excuse the tragically poor judgement he used while strapped with lethal firepower, which resulted in an unnecessary, extra-judicial ending of young man's life.

He will have to live with that.

Trayvon's grieving parents will have to live with that.

We all will have to live with that.

Trayvon was no saint. George is no saint. But one is alive and well, and the other has had his life abruptly ended for all eternity, bleeding to death, alone except for his shooter, on a suburban sidewalk.

Whatever else you think of Trayvon, he did not deserve that.

Your high dudgeon aside, SA, can you simply acknowledge, without adding further socio-political rhetoric, that this young man's violent death was not the best or fairest or sanest outcome of George Zimmerman crossing paths with Trayvon Martin that day?

Take a deep breath and just do this, and redeem some small portion of your humanity in the process, after which you can continue pressing whatever points you feel so compelled to keep making here.

 

[lotus503]

The fact is, when this story first broke everyone was absolutely jeering at Zimmerman like: "Oh my god how can this racist piece of shit possibly claim this angelic 12 year old boy I'm seeing pictures of looked like he was on drugs? Preposterous! Or that he was looking suspicious? My ass! Suspicious here meaning 'black' no doubt! Lynch this piece of shit! He just ASSUMED this kid was a criminal and a burglar and a druggie because he's black!!! And he shot him for no reason, there was definitely no physical struggle!"

Since that time, the following have happened:

• We've found out Zimmerman did have injuries.
• We've learned that there definitely was a physical struggle.
• We've learned that Trayvon did use and sell drugs.
• We've learned that Trayvon enjoyed not only the fairly tame weed, but also the fairly serious "lean"
• We've learned that Trayvon was chronically in trouble at school, and had indeed had to switch high schools once. He was already on his third suspension at his new high school.
• We've learned that Trayvon vandalized his new school, and when caught for it they found stolen jewelry and a burglary tool in his backpack.
• We've learned that Trayvon was not a 12 year old angel but a towering, massive 17 year old as seen in the 7-11 video
• Even in that brief video, the only one we'll probably ever have of Trayvon, in this little tiny snippet of his life we got to see, we see him attempt to break the law, and then in fact break it. He asks to buy tobacco products, and is rebuffed. Then he waits outside and pays slightly older dipshits to buy them for him. Circumventing, and breaking that law.

So I guess what I'm getting at is, every bit of information that has surfaced whether it be injury photos, doctor's report, EMT testimony, you name it... since that night, has piled more and more and more credibility onto what was initially a completely scoffed at account from GZ.

It shouldn't be surprising to you, at all, to learn that the other ways in which you remain skeptical of his story (that the kid was looking at houses suspiciously) are also true and counter to everyone's initial gut skepticism. That would be following a well established trend at this point.

GZ's initial core claim was that this kid looked like a burglar, up to no good, and on drugs. We've since learned he WAS a burglar, WAS a drug user, WAS constantly up to no good at least at school, and just fucking imagine how much more there is hiding in his sealed school records, how much is hiding behind him being a minor and what that implies for his criminal records and our ability to ever see them... how much is hiding behind the wall of silence all his friends would maintain, and certainly his family would maintain?

What was in that backpack all the other days they didn't have a direct reason to search it?

Nothing about Martin prior to the night of the 26th has bearing on the case.
For a few reasons.

1. He is dead
2. He is not charged with a crime

Zimmerman however is charged with murder, so his prior actions, the actions that night are under scrutiny.

And frankly zimmermans problem is that martins body lay 30+ feet south of where Zimmerman claims he was punched and knocked to the ground.

What that shows is Martin went 30+ south of Zimmerman after hitting him.

You can't be both defending yourself and chasing your attacker.

The state simply has to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. No easy task but given zimmermans track record of screwing himself not impossible.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

GM displayed that he had feelings of malice for Trayvon when he exited his vehicle and took off after him.

So why couldn't the FBI find any evidence that GZ committed a hate crime?

 

[spidey07]

Well, at least there's that . . . :biggrin:



None of what Trayvon did, including getting involved in fisticuffs after being aggressively pursued by young George, merit his vigilante "execution", imho.

Zimmerman will likely be exonerated at trial. Given what we know and what we really don't know, this is probably the narrowly correct outcome of that.

However, it does not excuse the tragically poor judgement he used while strapped with lethal firepower, which resulted in an unnecessary, extra-judicial ending of young man's life.

He will have to live with that.

Trayvon's grieving parents will have to live with that.

We all will have to live with that.

Trayvon was no saint. George is no saint. But one is alive and well, and the other has had his life abruptly ended for all eternity, bleeding to death, alone except for his shooter, on a suburban sidewalk.

Whatever else you think of Trayvon, he did not deserve that.

Your high dudgeon aside, SA, can you simply acknowledge, without adding further socio-political rhetoric, that this young man's violent death was not the best or fairest or sanest outcome of George Zimmerman crossing paths with Trayvon Martin that day?

Take a deep breath and just do this, and redeem some small portion of your humanity in the process, after which you can continue pressing whatever points you feel so compelled to keep making here.

Trey-trey did deserve to die. He earned his bullet by brutally and viciously attacking another. I have zero respect for anybody's life that would do that. When you brutally and viciously attack another, you had better be prepared to die because it is a possible outcome of your choice to commit a violent felony.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Nothing about Martin prior to the night of the 26th has bearing on the case.
For a few reasons.

1. He is dead
2. He is not charged with a crime

Zimmerman however is charged with murder, so his prior actions, the actions that night are under scrutiny.

And frankly zimmermans problem is that martins body lay 30+ feet south of where Zimmerman claims he was punched and knocked to the ground.

What that shows is Martin went 30+ south of Zimmerman after hitting him.

You can't be both defending yourself and chasing your attacker.

The state simply has to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. No easy task but given zimmermans track record of screwing himself not impossible.

Of course TM isn't charged with a crime as it's impossible to charge someone who is no longer living. However, the defense can use his actions/evidence to prove he was committing assault and battery against GZ when he was shot. This will go a long way to prove self defense.

There's no evidence/witness statement that backs up you theory that he chased GZ after he was struck. I don't see how the prosecution can prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. It's possible he was grabbed/swung around before he was struck and then stumbled in that direction before he fell.

 

[Geosurface]

A few points:

• I believe the emotions evident in GZ's frustrated utterances on that call are far more indicative of something akin to an old curmudgeony man complaining about teenagers on his lawn, than "malice" and I think this is fairly evident. I think anyone calling it "malice" or implying it bespoke of murderous intent is not being realistic or honest with the rest of us in this discussion.
• Whatever you wish to say about the severity of GZ's injuries, keep in mind that there in the dark with Trayvon on top of him, he had no idea how severe they were. I recently kicked a wall accidentally and it felt like I'd broken 3 toes. I didn't want to look. I expected blood everywhere or big flaps of skin hanging off them. When I did look, nothing of the sort. For all GZ knew, his head was opened up far more than it turned out to be, etc. It would've been terrifying. You can't expect someone to make a sober appraisal of their injuries during a situation like that, nor does the law require them to.
• His blood was in the pattern it was on his head because he had gotten up, and stood over Trayvon, etc at that point. It was still flowing and finalizing it's placement.
• Perknose, clearly the way things went that night was not the best or even a good way for them to go. It was, however, better than Trayvon killing GZ. Best of all would've been them never seeing one another. It doesn't please me that someone died. If someone had to die though, I'd rather it be the thug than the homeowner.
• "Execution", even in quotes, to my mind involves a situation where someone is utterly helpless. Whether it be hands tied behind their back with a guillotine around their head, a terrorist readying a machete, or a gun to their temple... or if it's strapped to a gurney or electric chair awaiting a needle or the flip of a switch, that's an execution. Being shot during an assault you're committing, by a man who has screamed and begged for you to stop for nearly a minute, an assault you could have stopped at any time... isn't an execution, not even in quotes. Get real.

 

[Geosurface]

It's possible he was grabbed/swung around before he was struck and then stumbled in that direction before he fell.

This.

I can easily envision the punch, then GZ starts stumbling/running away, Trayvon grabs the sleeve of his jacket or his arm, spins him and changes his course... now an increasingly dazed GZ stumble/runs southward, and the remaining distance, if any, is accounted for by movements during the struggle.

This simply isn't the problem for GZ people want to make it out to be.

Of course, if he'd ended up shooting him 5 feet from his car it would be even more clear... but I don't see any problem here.

 

[airdata]

Well, at least there's that . . . :biggrin:



None of what Trayvon did, including getting involved in fisticuffs after being aggressively pursued by young George, merit his vigilante "execution", imho.

Zimmerman will likely be exonerated at trial. Given what we know and what we really don't know, this is probably the narrowly correct outcome of that.

However, it does not excuse the tragically poor judgement he used while strapped with lethal firepower, which resulted in an unnecessary, extra-judicial ending of young man's life.

He will have to live with that.

Trayvon's grieving parents will have to live with that.

We all will have to live with that.

Trayvon was no saint. George is no saint. But one is alive and well, and the other has had his life abruptly ended for all eternity, bleeding to death, alone except for his shooter, on a suburban sidewalk.

Whatever else you think of Trayvon, he did not deserve that.

Your high dudgeon aside, SA, can you simply acknowledge, without adding further socio-political rhetoric, that this young man's violent death was not the best or fairest or sanest outcome of George Zimmerman crossing paths with Trayvon Martin that day?

Take a deep breath and just do this, and redeem some small portion of your humanity in the process, after which you can continue pressing whatever points you feel so compelled to keep making here.

The voice of reason.

-Cheers.

 

[lotus503]

This.

I can easily envision the punch, then GZ starts stumbling/running away, Trayvon grabs the sleeve of his jacket or his arm, spins him and changes his course... now an increasingly dazed GZ stumble/runs southward, and the remaining distance, if any, is accounted for by movements during the struggle.

This simply isn't the problem for GZ people want to make it out to be.

Of course, if he'd ended up shooting him 5 feet from his car it would be even more clear... but I don't see any problem here.

Problem is Zimmerman contends when he was punched he landed on the ground, not spun, ran etc.

It doesn't matter what you envision.
Zimmerman made a statement of what occurred in support of his defense claim. It doesn't line up with the evidence and where the body was found.

 

[Geosurface]

"his vigilante "execution""

"extra-judicial ending of young man's life."

If that's the voice of reason, airdata, then we are in trouble.

 

[JKing106]

This is such a stupid thing to argue... Cracked versus broken nose, lacerations versus wounds versus whatever...

There is plenty of videos and pics from zimmerman that night, ALL show his nose was "modified" by trayvon, ALL show blood and gaping wounds on the back of his head, ALL show facial bruising and imprints from trayvons hands holding zimmerman's head as he repeated attempted to kill him with the sidewalk. ALL of the evidence perfectly corroborates this.

These little details you are arguing regarding the severity of his injuries have zero relevance. We're talking about self-defense here, it is completely unreasonable to expect someone to know which blow will kill them, just so that at that exact moment it's "safe" to shoot the vicious attacker.

We're not looking at the same pictures, then. Zimmerman looks like a girl beat him up. There are no "imprints" from hands. You're lying again. That's nothing new. Link a picture of hand imprints. Show me the "gaping" wounds.

 

[Geosurface]

Problem is Zimmerman contends when he was punched he landed on the ground, not spun, ran etc.

It doesn't matter what you envision.
Zimmerman made a statement of what occurred in support of his defense claim. It doesn't line up with the evidence and where the body was found.

When he actually was taken back out to the exact location this all happened, he indicated backing away southward from Trayvon and attempting to fend off subsequent attacks from Trayvon while doing so. He did this without being prompted to explain how they got so far south.

You are smart enough to know that someone going through something like that isn't going to remember every single little detail of who moved where, when, and exactly how it all went down. Especially the parts where they were seeing stars and had just taken what might've been the first punch to their nose of their life.

We have received imperfect accounts from GZ, they do indicate confusion on his part, he remembers some elements one time telling it, which he doesn't include other times. I find this all to be completely and entirely expected.

You should expect the most definitive version of what he can remember from racking his brain on multiple occasions and writing it all down, etc, having his memory jogged by being shown those distances, etc... to be presented by his lawyer Mark O'Mara.

I find it entirely unsurprising that the half-remembered, piecemeal, multiple stabs at a full recounting he's made so far have been imperfect in this fashion.

 

[JKing106]

I have zero respect for anybody's life.

We all know that, you sociopath.

 

[JKing106]

This.

I can easily envision the punch, then GZ starts stumbling/running away, Trayvon grabs the sleeve of his jacket or his arm, spins him and changes his course... now an increasingly dazed GZ stumble/runs southward, and the remaining distance, if any, is accounted for by movements during the struggle.

This simply isn't the problem for GZ people want to make it out to be.

Of course, if he'd ended up shooting him 5 feet from his car it would be even more clear... but I don't see any problem here.

You easily envision any situation where Zimmerman isn't at fault. It's what you're paid to do, here. When did you discover that you had no conscience, and valued money over morality?

 

[Geosurface]

These aren't the highest quality images but if you enlarge them, and look closely you will see multiple scrapes and nicks, abbrasions and "burns" (like a rug burn or "Indian burn" type of effect) all around the front and sides of his head.

This is not the most horrific beating any man has ever sustained, by a very long shot. Nobody is denying that.

It does, however, prove a couple of things:

1.) It was George Zimmerman screaming.
2.) It was self-defense.

 

[Agent11]

Depends if the gun was in his hand or in a holster. If it was in his hand I would have done worse to him.

 

[JKing106]

These aren't the highest quality images but if you enlarge them, and look closely you will see multiple scrapes and nicks, abbrasions and "burns" (like a rug burn or "Indian burn" type of effect) all around the front and sides of his head.

This is not the most horrific beating any man has ever sustained, by a very long shot. Nobody is denying that.

It does, however, prove a couple of things:

1.) It was George Zimmerman screaming.
2.) It was self-defense.

And he still looks like he was beat up by a school girl. You've never been in a real fight, have you? Never seen a real fight, have you? Not surprising, knowing that you're sitting in some PAC office, pretending to be a "liberal" who thinks a young boy deserved do die. Which PAC is it again? Crossroads? Heritage? Are you actually getting paid, or are you just some intern from some Junior Republican group?

Those are superficial wounds. That's the reason he declined medical attention that night, but went running the next day to see his GP because his father told him he'd fucked up not having his "injuries" documented.

How does his injuries prove that it was him screaming? If it was him screaming, why did he stop the instant of the gunshot. And it did stop the instant of the gunshot, it's on the 911 call, so don't try to lie and say it didn't.

You're going to have to do better than this to earn your pay. Well, maybe you don't. They haven't fired you yet, when it's blatantly obvious what you're doing?

 

[soundforbjt]

These aren't the highest quality images but if you enlarge them, and look closely you will see multiple scrapes and nicks, abbrasions and "burns" (like a rug burn or "Indian burn" type of effect) all around the front and sides of his head.

This is not the most horrific beating any man has ever sustained, by a very long shot. Nobody is denying that.

It does, however, prove a couple of things:

1.) It was George Zimmerman screaming.
2.) It was self-defense.

So where's the blood from when he was "on his back"? It's not on his coat nor shirt collar, nor is it on TM's oversized hoodie cuffs or hands. It looks like from the picture taken before he was cleaned up that he bled very little and mostly when he was leaning over TM, hardly the gaping wounds some people describe he had. Head wounds usually bleed like crazy, his barely at all considering the approx full minute of pounding his head repeatedly as some have speculated. And it in no way proves GZ was screaming at the time of the shot.

 

[airdata]

If that's the voice of reason, airdata, then we are in trouble.

You must not have read their entire post to simply nit pick a choice of words you don't like.

Vigilante execution perfectly describes Trayvon's killing. Zimmerman went after somebody he thought was breaking the law, and ultimately shot & killed them.

Are you suggesting Zimmerman was not acting as a vigilante? He left his neighborhood watch hat in his car, bub... and once he got out chasing after that fucking punk he put on his vigilante hat.

 

[JKing106]

I can hear it now...

"Proof that Zimmerman was wearing a hat? It's not illegal to wear a hat while in the execution (heh-heh) of neighborhood watch duties..."

 

[airdata]

 

[tashatexas]

Very graphic and hard to look at Airdata but that's what someone got an MMA style beating looks like. The funny thing is when those pop tart socalled injury pics of GZ were released there was no disclaimer about how graphic they were. A three year old could look at the pics and be unphased, equating it to the time they scraped their knee on the playground.

The above pics is what happens to someone who is intentionally being seriously hurt by their opponents after they have succumb to a position from which they cannot manuever out of. Hands pinned down, someone sitting on their chest etc. Now look at Zimmerthug who claims Martins intent was murder and Martin had him pinned and unable to move for more than a minute and he walked away without a bloody face? No knots on his head no bloodshot eyes no busted lip no black eye and NO BLEEDING AND BROKEN NOSE? His nose would have been prime for bashing the entire time, not just once. Zimmerman is lying.

On another note thank you Perknose for pointing out that the lack of humanity and morality is glaring among Zimmerman supporters.

 

[chucky2]

You understand right that MMA style beatings come from MMA strength fighters, who have MMA style technique? Jesus you guys are as desperate as the 'you didn't build that' spinners...