Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[waggy]

LOL Spidey is trying to hard to make the case for this killer.

I'm willing to go out on a limb and say point blank that if you're behind the killer you're a racist.

End of discussion. Race card pulled.

its already been pulled. both him and alky are fucking major racist. "hood ratS" "ghetto stomp" just a little of what they have said.

 

[CLite]

it's "reasonable" fear.

What's "reasonable" fear? Pre-conceived notions that young black males in hoodies carry knifes should not be justification.

Let's say I get in a shoving match (leading to punches) with a young white male in a suit with a briefcase, versus if I get a shoving match with a young black male in a hoodie with skittles in a brown-bag who I think is "acting suspiciously". Is there any difference between the two scenarios besides society's own pre-judgement? Am I allowed to assume the young black male is more likely to carry a knife?

 

[cybrsage]

LOL Spidey is trying to hard to make the case for this killer.

I'm willing to go out on a limb and say point blank that if you're behind the killer you're a racist.

End of discussion. Race card pulled.

Wow, what a completely and utterly moronic thing to post.

 

[micrometers]

At what point do you choose to stop trying to disable someone you think is stalking you and trying to mug you?

My scenario for this is that M. and Z. got into a tussle, M. resisted, then somehow gained the upper hand and tried to land enough blows to get away in a hurry. Once M. started getting up from Z. this allowed Z. to regain his composure and get off a mortal shot. If this the kid had actually dealt a back to the head blow delivering a concussion Z. wouldn't have gotten off a shot straight to the chest. The 911 calls paint a story of the initial screams being close to the caller and then the shout directly prior to the shot being much further away. I really think M. got his punches off to disable Z. so he could get some distance and then got up to run but didn't realize Z. was packing heat.

very possible.

 

[cybrsage]

What's "reasonable" fear?

Lying on the ground with someone on top of you punching you is reasonable fear for your life.



Holy time warp!

 

[micrometers]

What's "reasonable" fear? Pre-conceived notions that young black males in hoodies carry knifes should not be justification.

Let's say I get in a shoving match (leading to punches) with a young white male in a suit with a briefcase, versus if I get a shoving match with a young black male in a hoodie with skittles in a brown-bag who I think is "acting suspiciously". Is there any difference between the two scenarios besides society's own pre-judgement? Am I allowed to assume the young black male is more likely to carry a knife?

Z was on the ground.

but I linked the trevor dooley case where he shot a guy in front of his daughter during a shoving match where they're both standing. Dude is on trial now (lots more witnesses) but he is claiming SYG.

 

[cybrsage]

So I need to start a fight with the witnesses...lose those fights then shoot them.

Once those witness are gone...its all honeybadger from there.

Probably not, as you would have to be able to create a situation in which the physical evidence aligns to your story that the group attacked you.

It would be too hard to fabricate that much physical evidence, or construct the fights in such a way as to ensure the physical evidence aligns with your story.

 

[CLite]

Lying on the ground with someone on top of you punching you is reasonable fear for your life.



Holy time warp!

The point is having the basis of both initiating the encounter, yelling -> shoving -> punch -> wrestling. If at some point someone I'm fighting gets on top of me I instantly gain the ability to escalate a mutually started encounter to lethal ends?

 

[micrometers]

The point is having the basis of both initiating the encounter, yelling -> shoving -> punch -> wrestling. If at some point someone I'm fighting gets on top of me I instantly gain the ability to escalate a mutually started encounter to lethal ends?

momentarily no.

look, evidence is very flawed. All we have is two witnesses who at one point saw T on top of Z.

We also hear screaming for 45 seconds before the shot in a 911 call.

I think that screaming likely came from Z as he was pinned on the ground. You don't scream if you're on top and winning. You scream if you're trying to shield yourself.

more likely happened, but this is all we have.

 

[cybrsage]

The point is having the basis of both initiating the encounter, yelling -> shoving -> punch -> wrestling. If at some point someone I'm fighting gets on top of me I instantly gain the ability to escalate a mutually started encounter to lethal ends?

Yes. How do you know the person on top is not going to grab your head and bash your brains out on the ground?

 

[werepossum]

Yeah none of those obstacles were present there...don't see how he couldn't have run circles around him without even breaking a sweat...

If there were no obstacles, Martin probably just got tired of running and confronted Zimmerman. (Although I still like my theory about the irresistible attraction between a fat man and a bag of Skittles. . .) That still doesn't tell us who initiated the physical confrontation though, could go either way.

Not running was obviously not the smart thing to do here, but it's entirely understandable. I have a perfect right to be where I am, doing what I'm doing; why should I run?

One thing that's going to be very important is the distance of the shot. If Martin is on top of Zimmerman and then gets up and backs away, and then Zimmerman shoots him, I don't see how any reasonable person says that isn't second degree murder. The distance should be reasonably easy to determine by the amount and distribution of powder burning present. Hopefully the police will be overseen by the FBI to satisfy everyone there's nothing under the table happening.

And to whomever raised the point that the police can't do a blood test on the shooter without permission or a warrant, this should always be pursued when an unarmed person is shot, but especially when it's a kid. Shouldn't be that hard to get a warrant if needed, and if there's no impairment the shooter should be happy to have that proven.

 

[momeNt]

Probably not, as you would have to be able to create a situation in which the physical evidence aligns to your story that the group attacked you.

It would be too hard to fabricate that much physical evidence, or construct the fights in such a way as to ensure the physical evidence aligns with your story.

What kind of physical evidence is there? You have just T and Z's body. So you get a bloody nose and scrape your head and you're golden, leave as many bullet holes in the other person as you want, once you get a scrape you're free to go home that night, with your weapon and car.

 

[cybrsage]

One thing that's going to be very important is the distance of the shot. If Martin is on top of Zimmerman and then gets up and backs away, and then Zimmerman shoots him, I don't see how any reasonable person says that isn't second degree murder. The distance should be reasonably easy to determine by the amount and distribution of powder burning present. Hopefully the police will be overseen by the FBI to satisfy everyone there's nothing under the table happening.

Agreed. This will make or break the self defense argument.

 

[Capt Caveman]

fwiw - Trayvon Martin: New details in George Zimmerman domestic violence petitions

 

[CLite]

momentarily no.

look, evidence is very flawed. All we have is two witnesses who at one point saw T on top of Z.

We also hear screaming for 45 seconds before the shot in a 911 call.

I think that screaming likely came from Z as he was pinned on the ground. You don't scream if you're on top and winning. You scream if you're trying to shield yourself.

more likely happened, but this is all we have.

Well in the end I agree that all we will ever have is circumstantial evidence. While the mountain of circumstantial evidence is enough for me to judge Zimmerman I don't think he will be brought to Justice, but I do hope this case serves as a national rallying cry against SYG.

This nation doesn't need a wild-west scenario where fathers get shot in front of their daughters, verbal non-physical arguments over garbage result in legal shootings, a decorated officer getting legally shot in his mother's backyard, and a 14 year old bystander gets legally shot in a gang street shootout . It needs to end.

 

[cybrsage]

What kind of physical evidence is there? You have just T and Z's body. So you get a bloody nose and scrape your head and you're golden, leave as many bullet holes in the other person as you want, once you get a scrape you're free to go home that night, with your weapon and car.

I was continuing the discussion where a group of people watched Pauldun170 start a fight with someone, that someone got the upper hand in the fight, and Pauldun170 shot him claiming self defense.

His self defense plea would not work due to him starting the fight. In order for him to lie and say he did not start it, he would need no witnesses who saw him start it.

Pauldun170 then said he would start fights with each witness and kill them, claiming self defense for each, and go home free. That is what I responded it....his hypothetical situation.

 

[cybrsage]

SYG is needed...I should not have to flee my own home to escape an attacker.

 

[micrometers]

Agreed. This will make or break the self defense argument.

actually, based on Cutcher's testimony, that is very possible.

The one hole is that Z seemed to get up off the ground very quickly after the shooting.

If I had just fired a gun, I would probably lay on the ground for a good while. Well, knowing I killed the guy. He probably got up quickly because he was unsure he was dead or not.

But also, if T were on top of Z when Z fired the gun, then T's body would have been an obstacle to Z getting up. But if T is a little further away, then T does not land on Z but on the ground.

 

[HomerJS]

Looks like the people who wrote the law know more about this case then the Zimmerman fellators cough...cough...spidey, alky, cybr, karmy...cough. But I'm sure spidey will continue to argue with the guy who wrote the fucking law!!!

The Florida lawmakers who crafted the state's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law said neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman should be arrested for shooting and killing unarmed teen Trayvon Martin

"They got the goods on him. They need to prosecute whoever shot the kid," Peaden, a Republican, told the Herald. "He has no protection under my law."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ted-article-1.1048164?localLinksEnabled=false

 

[micrometers]

Looks like the people who wrote the law know more about this case then the Zimmerman fellators cough...cough...spidey, alky, cybr, karmy...cough



http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ted-article-1.1048164?localLinksEnabled=false

The guys who wrote the law are idiots who missed the glaring loopholes that it created. Do you really think that they can say with authority what it means when they missed these loopholes in originally drafting it?

 

[waggy]

The guys who wrote the law are idiots who missed the glaring loopholes that it created. Do you really think that they can say with authority what it means when they missed these loopholes in originally drafting it?

this.

 

[airdata]

Looks like the people who wrote the law know more about this case then the Zimmerman fellators cough...cough...spidey, alky, cybr, karmy...cough. But I'm sure spidey will continue to argue with the guy who wrote the fucking law!!!


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ted-article-1.1048164?localLinksEnabled=false

Game, set, match.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Looks like the people who wrote the law know more about this case then the Zimmerman fellators cough...cough...spidey, alky, cybr, karmy...cough





http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ted-article-1.1048164?localLinksEnabled=false

Don't forget this little tidbit.

The pair noted, hwoever, that they didn't know all the facts of the case and their opinions could change if new details were uncovered.

 

[HomerJS]

Don't forget this little tidbit.

Their comments were made on what we know to date.

 

[micrometers]

Game, set, match.

as I said, the guys who passed the law were idiots who didn't fully contemplate the full consequences of it. So I'm not really going to believe them when they say that it doesn't apply, since they've already shown themselves to be idiots.