Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[spidey07]

That only *you* know about? Where is this "plenty of evidence"?

Wounds to zimmerman, zimmerman testimony, eye witness who saw it testimony, physical evidence

Hell, there's even leaks of the can/bottle that martin had with blood on it. The suspicion is he used it to hit zimmerman in the back of the head. That right there is a deadly weapon. I'd like to know all the evidence but we're not going to get it for a LONG time and it may never be known if the grand jury doesn't believe there's evidence of a crime.

 

[cybrsage]

yeah, when the fat man chases down the skinny man and attacks him while out of breath.

Maybe he quick tipped a 5 hour energy?

 

[micrometers]

That's not how the Florida Licensing department spells it out. If I hit you with a punch escalating that to lethal measure is not justified. Getting a few punches is not "seriously injured".

From what we know, witnesses saw T on top of Z.

I do agree that if T had thrown a punch and then Z drew a gun and fired that is a stronger case for it being criminal. Though there is a case ongoing where a man pulled a gun and shot another man who was only out on a playground with his daughter...and he's invoking SYG, which I must repeat is shitty law

but all indication is that Z fired while his back was on the ground.

 

[micrometers]

Wounds to zimmerman, zimmerman testimony, eye witness who saw it testimony, physical evidence

Hell, there's even leaks of the can/bottle that martin had with blood on it. The suspicion is he used it to hit zimmerman in the back of the head. That right there is a deadly weapon. I'd like to know all the evidence but we're not going to get it for a LONG time and it may never be known if the grand jury doesn't believe there's evidence of a crime.

where in the world did you hear this?

 

[AznAnarchy99]

I really want to step out of this thread but for some reason I can't. I've said this once before and all along, self defense was thrown out when Zimmerman started stalking and chasing martin. Someone chasing me in my city, Santa ana, California to be exact, look it up, expect to be hit if you catch up.

 

[micrometers]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...n-valrico-leaves-community-bewildered/1124429

This is what I"m talking about. Similar case, AFAIKT no criminal charges.

 

[corwin]

I really want to step out of this thread but for some reason I can't. I've said this once before and all along, self defense was thrown out when Zimmerman started stalking and chasing martin. Someone chasing me in my city, Santa ana, California to be exact, look it up, expect to be hit if you catch up.

I do too but keep getting sucked back in...I can see your point there but has anyone figured out how a lanky football player with a decent head start couldn't out run fatty here? How the hell could he have caught up to him?

 

[spidey07]

where in the world did you hear this?

Rumor/supposition as to why the police say the evidence lines up with Martin attacking zimmerman.

 

[micrometers]

Rumor/supposition as to why the police say the evidence lines up with Martin attacking zimmerman.

in other words you're making it up.

 

[CLite]

where in the world did you hear this?

Same spot he pulls his "ghetto stomping" expertise from I'm sure. I can't imagine the guy is able to post on another board considering he has 58,000 posts here, but he obviously digs up dirt with other racist sociopaths and lovingly shares it with the internet.

Regarding SYG, I think the police are misapplying it, as hinted by the licensing website descriptions of applicability and also the legislators who introduced the bill. The law says "serious bodily harm" getting a bloodied nose is nowhere close to that, or at least should not be considered something that requires lethal retaliation.

 

[spidey07]

Same spot he pulls his "ghetto stomping" expertise from I'm sure. I can't imagine the guy is able to post on another board considering he has 58,000 posts here, but he obviously digs up dirt with other racist sociopaths and lovingly shares it with the internet.

Regarding SYG, I think the police are misapplying it, as hinted by the licensing website descriptions of applicability and also the legislators who introduced the bill. The law says "serious bodily harm" getting a bloodied nose is nowhere close to that, or at least should not be considered something that requires lethal retaliation.

If you're on the ground being beaten you're pretty much good to go on self defense in most states including duty to retreat states (you can't retreat if you're on your back being beaten, lethal force is justified).

 

[micrometers]

Same spot he pulls his "ghetto stomping" expertise from I'm sure. I can't imagine the guy is able to post on another board considering he has 58,000 posts here, but he obviously digs up dirt with other racist sociopaths and lovingly shares it with the internet.

Regarding SYG, I think the police are misapplying it, as hinted by the licensing website descriptions of applicability and also the legislators who introduced the bill. The law says "serious bodily harm" getting a bloodied nose is nowhere close to that, or at least should not be considered something that requires lethal retaliation.

you don't quite understand how potential harm.

If someone comes up to me with a knife, I have lots of fear. I fear he might stick the knife in my chest or slit my throat.

So I shoot him. By shooting him, I prevent him from sticking the knife into me. That's the entire point of self-defense. Preventing harm from occurring.

So the fact that Z isn't severely damaged is not that relevant.

 

[pauldun170]

If you're on the ground being beaten you're pretty much good to go on self defense in most states including duty to retreat states (you can't retreat if you're on your back being beaten, lethal force is justified).

So I can start as many fights as I like, I just have to make sure I'm losing prior to pulling a weapon.

Good to know.

 

[cybrsage]

Regarding SYG, I think the police are misapplying it, as hinted by the licensing website descriptions of applicability and also the legislators who introduced the bill. The law says "serious bodily harm" getting a bloodied nose is nowhere close to that, or at least should not be considered something that requires lethal retaliation.

How long should he have let the guy beat him until you say he was allowed to defend himself against his attacker? Should he have waiting until the attacker blinded him in one eye? Should he have waited until the attacker maimed him?

Seriously, at what point, according to you, should he have laid there and been beaten until he could defend himself with his gun?

 

[cybrsage]

So I can start as many fights as I like, I just have to make sure I'm losing prior to pulling a weapon.

Good to know.

You also have to have no witnesses saying you started it. That is a key item.

 

[airdata]

Wounds to zimmerman, zimmerman testimony, eye witness who saw it testimony, physical evidence

Hell, there's even leaks of the can/bottle that martin had with blood on it. The suspicion is he used it to hit zimmerman in the back of the head. That right there is a deadly weapon. I'd like to know all the evidence but we're not going to get it for a LONG time and it may never be known if the grand jury doesn't believe there's evidence of a crime.

LOL Spidey is trying to hard to make the case for this killer.

I'm willing to go out on a limb and say point blank that if you're behind the killer you're a racist.

End of discussion. Race card pulled.

 

[CLite]

you don't quite understand how potential harm.

If someone comes up to me with a knife, I have lots of fear. I fear he might stick the knife in my chest or slit my throat.

So I shoot him. By shooting him, I prevent him from sticking the knife into me. That's the entire point of self-defense. Preventing harm from occurring.

So the fact that Z isn't severely damaged is not that relevant.

The concept is absurd, that's saying almost any argument can justify you using deadly force if you feel like the person may pull a gun at any second and shoot you.

 

[werepossum]

I do too but keep getting sucked back in...I can see your point there but has anyone figured out how a lanky football player with a decent head start couldn't out run fatty here? How the hell could he have caught up to him?

I can see a few possibilities. First, Martin might have run into a dead end (e.g. common fenced yards, drainage ditch, dark scary woods, major bust highway) and been cornered. Second, Martin might have exhausted himself running from Zimmerman in his truck, to the point that Zimmerman's donut-fueled rush caught him. Third, Martin might have gotten tired of running (especially when talking to his girlfriend - hardly cool!) and decided to confront Zimmerman. Fourth, Zimmerman might have mummy powers, where he moves really slowly but somehow instantly catches you at the slightest stumble. Fifth, Zimmerman was motivated by Martin's Skittles getting away. Really, really motivated. Like a bag of tiny little hard candy coated Twinkies that no fat man can resist. Must . . . catch . . Skittles!

Someone needs to listen very closely to that 9-1-1 call tape to see if "Fucking coons" was followed by "always after me Lucky Skittles!"

Now I feel dirty for gallows humor about a 17 year old's death. But since I'm a forum whore I'm not editing it out.

 

[micrometers]

The concept is absurd, that's saying almost any argument can justify you using deadly force if you feel like the person may pull a gun at any second and shoot you.

it's "reasonable" fear.

 

[CLite]

How long should he have let the guy beat him until you say he was allowed to defend himself against his attacker? Should he have waiting until the attacker blinded him in one eye? Should he have waited until the attacker maimed him?

Seriously, at what point, according to you, should he have laid there and been beaten until he could defend himself with his gun?

At what point do you choose to stop trying to disable someone you think is stalking you and trying to mug you?

My scenario for this is that M. and Z. got into a tussle, M. resisted, then somehow gained the upper hand and tried to land enough blows to get away in a hurry. Once M. started getting up from Z. this allowed Z. to regain his composure and get off a mortal shot. If this the kid had actually dealt a back to the head blow delivering a concussion Z. wouldn't have gotten off a shot straight to the chest. The 911 calls paint a story of the initial screams being close to the caller and then the shout directly prior to the shot being much further away. I really think M. got his punches off to disable Z. so he could get some distance and then got up to run but didn't realize Z. was packing heat.

 

[etrigan420]

Wounds to zimmerman, zimmerman testimony, eye witness who saw it testimony, physical evidence.

"Wounds to zimmerman" is not *evidence* that T assaulted him. "Zimmerman testimony" is not *evidence* that T assaulted him. "Eye witness who saw it testimony" is not *evidence* that T assaulted him (and the only eye witness who has even come close to insinuating as such said that T was on top of Z...which means nothing as far as who assaulted whom goes). Aaaand, I'm not even sure what you mean by "physical evidence"...again, do you know something we don't?

Hell, there's even leaks of the can/bottle that martin had with blood on it. The suspicion is he used it to hit zimmerman in the back of the head.

Obviously Z was assaulting T and T had to use the can in self defense...I mean, that's *obvious*. (Am I being condescending enough?)

I'd like to know all the evidence but we're not going to get it for a LONG time and it may never be known if the grand jury doesn't believe there's evidence of a crime.

Agreed, but you keep yakking like you know exactly what went down, and you don't.

 

[airdata]

you don't quite understand how potential harm.

If someone comes up to me with a knife, I have lots of fear. I fear he might stick the knife in my chest or slit my throat.

So I shoot him. By shooting him, I prevent him from sticking the knife into me. That's the entire point of self-defense. Preventing harm from occurring.

So the fact that Z isn't severely damaged is not that relevant.

The established fact that the killer was told not to follow him makes all of this other stuff null and void.

To defend himself, he should have stayed in his car. The second he stepped out of his car and persued the victim, he was the agressor. At that point, there's no such thing as self defense since he was attacking a CHILD.

You guys want to post all sorts of pointless stuff on here... fact of the matter is you have an adult stalking a CHILD. And then he winds up fatally shooting the child.

If I saw the 2 guys side by side, i'd think that zimmerman looked more suspicious. Heavyset guy in his late 20's with pierced ears and walking around with a gun thinking he's the police?

 

[pauldun170]

You also have to have no witnesses saying you started it. That is a key item.

So I need to start a fight with the witnesses...lose those fights then shoot them.

Once those witness are gone...its all honeybadger from there.

 

[HomerJS]

LOL Spidey is trying to hard to make the case for this killer.

I'm willing to go out on a limb and say point blank that if you're behind the killer you're a racist.

End of discussion. Race card pulled.

Spidey likes the taste of Zimmerman's dick

 

[corwin]

I can see a few possibilities. First, Martin might have run into a dead end (e.g. common fenced yards, drainage ditch, dark scary woods, major bust highway) and been cornered. Second, Martin might have exhausted himself running from Zimmerman in his truck, to the point that Zimmerman's donut-fueled rush caught him. Third, Martin might have gotten tired of running (especially when talking to his girlfriend - hardly cool!) and decided to confront Zimmerman. Fourth, Zimmerman might have mummy powers, where he moves really slowly but somehow instantly catches you at the slightest stumble. Fifth, Zimmerman was motivated by Martin's Skittles getting away. Really, really motivated. Like a bag of tiny little hard candy coated Twinkies that no fat man can resist.

Someone needs to listen very closely to that 9-1-1 call tape to see if "Fucking coons" was followed by "always after me Lucky Skittles!"

Now I feel dirty for gallows humor about a 17 year old's death. But since I'm a forum whore I'm not editing it out.

Yeah none of those obstacles were present there...don't see how he couldn't have run circles around him without even breaking a sweat...