UN trying to create report that says Iran is working on developing nuclear weapons.

[al981]

This I won't have any trouble paying for.

LOL! make sure you post a facebook update when you're in the middle of tehran.

 

[Doppel]

And lets be fair to Israel here, had Israel not developed a military stance they never would have survived all the united Arab Army attacks after Israeli statehood was UN approved in 1948.

Wow, a very rare possible miscue. Did you just admit that without Israel being armed to the teeth it already would have been overrun by its millions of neighbors?

 

[al981]

I can only speak to US troop numbers (there are a substantial amount of "paid fighting men" that aren't in the military.) We're due to be completely out of their country, save the Embassy guard force, in about 6 weeks. All brigade combat teams have withdrawn to Kuwait with many of them sending their soldiers back to the states. The only people remaining are the logistics people working feverishly to get everything packed up, handed over and to "turn off the lights."

try to keep up with current events, son.

US to massively increase gulf presence after "withdrawal" of iraq"

LOL!

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't follow.

Feel free to Google news about Israel, and you'll find a couple days worth of articles citing US military sources saying "We don't think Israel is going to give us prior warning about attacking Iran."

You can also find a week's worth of articles about burgeoning US military bases struggling to deal with the largest number of redeployed US troops in a decade, and wandering what to do with all of them.

Of course you don't follow- you're being disingenuous once again. Should Israel attack, the IAEA inspectors will be on the next plane out, and Iran will set out in earnest to create nukes, regardless of how long it takes or how much it costs. They can create facilities even nukes can't take out, like Cheyenne mountain, well out of range of Israeli air strikes. They have the money, the technical expertise, and the manpower to do so. After that, it'd just be a matter of time until they test their first device. It's not like Uncle Sam will intervene, either, no matter how badly the Israelis want to think that we would.

Go rogue and you're on your own, guys...

 

[Matt1970]

try to keep up with current events, son.

US to massively increase gulf presence after "withdrawal" of iraq"

LOL!

Oh God, I thought we were rid of you....

 

[Lemon law]

Wow, a very rare possible miscue. Did you just admit that without Israel being armed to the teeth it already would have been overrun by its millions of neighbors?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No its no miscue Doppel, it was the reality in 1948 as all the Arabs screamed NIMBY when Europe dumped its Jewish refugees on hapless Arabs in 1948.

But now that the Arabs have learned Israel is in the region to stay, the Israelis have to realize, for the West, they are becoming more a liability than an asset. And if the USA and the Europeans attack Iran for no real reason, the entire mid-east will go ballistic as the USA and the Europeans will self declare themselves the enemies of the entire mid-east in a endeavor the USA and Europe cannot win. And as soon as the USA and Europe lose that clusterfuck, keeping Israel armed to the teeth will become untenable. As Israel will soon find itself unable to keep up its military hegemony and still keep its own economy going. After all the Arabs have the oil to sustain a military buildup and Israel has no such assets.

As suddenly Israel will find itself with a center productive strategy, and no longer able to have a policy of alienated all its Arab neighbors.

Then the only viable Israeli strategy will be to become a productive asset for the Mid-east region.

 

[Nebor]

try to keep up with current events, son.

US to massively increase gulf presence after "withdrawal" of iraq"

LOL!

Wait, so I said that virtually all of the troops had withdrawn to Kuwait, and you link me to an article saying that there are a ton of troops in Kuwait? You do realize Kuwait is in the middle east, right?

 

[Nebor]

Of course you don't follow- you're being disingenuous once again. Should Israel attack, the IAEA inspectors will be on the next plane out, and Iran will set out in earnest to create nukes, regardless of how long it takes or how much it costs. They can create facilities even nukes can't take out, like Cheyenne mountain, well out of range of Israeli air strikes. They have the money, the technical expertise, and the manpower to do so. After that, it'd just be a matter of time until they test their first device. It's not like Uncle Sam will intervene, either, no matter how badly the Israelis want to think that we would.

Go rogue and you're on your own, guys...

I think you're making a pretty big assumption there. The US and Europe have been posturing against Iran for a decade now. Especially considering your timeline is several years long (to develop a nuclear weapon) and once inspectors leave the country, the countdown to war usually starts.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Would you support admitting Israel into NATO and assuring it of protection? Or should the Jews simply remain defenseless in light of a billion Muslims whose scripts demand Jews to convert or die, some of them with nukes already?

lol
My kids have already cast aside most of your fearful fantasys
Odds are pretty good your Gramma feared her children having to grow up in a country full of Christians.
If you have children (I really hope not), you may try to put your fear into them, but they will foster their own fears. By that time, the radical right terrorists should be in full swing again, and they will embrace Muslims as their brothers in the fight against them.
Most young Jewish Americans already support a Pal state

 

[Orignal Earl]

why? You actually think that if Iran was armed or for that matter radical Muslims were armed with nuclear weapons that they would NOT use them??

You are so sadly mistaken.....

I thought Pakistan is a Muslim state?

 

[Nebor]

I thought Pakistan is a Muslim state?

Common misconception, they're actually a Scientologist state.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Common misconception, they're actually a Scientologist state.

They have quite a foothold in the UK as well.

Scientology riot attempt to take down Parliament.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Scientology_psychiatry_kills.jpg

 

[woolfe9999]

Woolfe asks a the question, "In all seriousness, NPT or no, we aren't going to get anywhere with non-proliferation if we aren't unified. You'd think the west could unify on this one issue, but apparently not."

So I ask Woolfe in the same spirit, would you support Israel giving up its nukes to make the mid-east a nuclear weapons free zone if Iran did the same?

I think total world unity could be achieved on that basis.

Nice job not quoting my other comments where I said that no currently nuclear armed nation will ever give up its nukes, which is all the stronger reason to prevent more countries from acquiring them. In answer to your question, sure, I support every nuclear armed nation not being nuclear armed anymore. If I could snap my fingers and expunge the existence of all nuclear weapons I would do so without hesitation. But I am working in the confines of what is possible in the real world. In that world, nuclear armed nations won't give up their nukes, and they can't be militarily forced to, for obvious reasons, while preventing new countries from acquiring them is difficult, yet possible. The world community has now failed, several times, with Israel, India, Pakistan, and North Korea. It's time to stop failing.

- wolf

 

[fskimospy]

Nice job not quoting my other comments where I said that no currently nuclear armed nation will ever give up its nukes, which is all the stronger reason to prevent more countries from acquiring them. In answer to your question, sure, I support every nuclear armed nation not being nuclear armed anymore. If I could snap my fingers and expunge the existence of all nuclear weapons I would do so without hesitation. But I am working in the confines of what is possible in the real world. In that world, nuclear armed nations won't give up their nukes, and they can't be militarily forced to, for obvious reasons, while preventing new countries from acquiring them is difficult, yet possible. The world community has now failed, several times, with Israel, India, Pakistan, and North Korea. It's time to stop failing.

- wolf

How do you suggest we stop failing?

 

[woolfe9999]

How do you suggest we stop failing?

Do a better job of securing nuclear materials, tougher sanctions, covert activity, and surgical military strikes as a last resort. Iran's nuclear development was concentrated in a smaller number of locations 5 years ago, and a strike was much more feasible then. Trouble is we had no credibility because of the Iraq/WMD debacle. I'm not saying we can prevent every determined country from acquiring them, but we can do better than sitting around mouthing off for 12 years while a country like Iran goes on its merry way. We dithered on this one, pissed away what credibility we have, and now it's likely too late.

 

[fskimospy]

Do a better job of securing nuclear materials, tougher sanctions, covert activity, and surgical military strikes as a last resort. Iran's nuclear development was concentrated in a smaller number of locations 5 years ago, and a strike was much more feasible then. Trouble is we had no credibility because of the Iraq/WMD debacle. I'm not saying we can prevent every determined country from acquiring them, but we can do better than sitting around mouthing off for 12 years while a country like Iran goes on its merry way. We dithered on this one, pissed away what credibility we have, and now it's likely too late.

None of these things would have prevented Iran from creating a nuclear weapon. Iran mines its own uranium, they are already sanctioned out the wazoo (and sanctions, once implemented do not change behavior). We used covert activity, but clearly we aren't going to James Bond everyone's WMD programs out of existence. There was also no way that we were going to bomb Iran's program in 2006 while we were furiously fighting to keep Iraq from imploding.

I guess my point is that we already do most of the things you are suggesting. It's not enough.

 

[woolfe9999]

None of these things would have prevented Iran from creating a nuclear weapon. Iran mines its own uranium, they are already sanctioned out the wazoo (and sanctions, once implemented do not change behavior). We used covert activity, but clearly we aren't going to James Bond everyone's WMD programs out of existence. There was also no way that we were going to bomb Iran's program in 2006 while we were furiously fighting to keep Iraq from imploding.

I guess my point is that we already do most of the things you are suggesting. It's not enough.

I disagree that a military strike 5 years ago would not have been effective. Your point about Iraq misses my point - we never should have been in Iraq to begin with. Not only were we too busy "furiously fighting" there, but Bush blew our international credibility on that war. Without it, we could probably have gotten broad NATO support for, and participation in, strikes against Iran. Along with Afghanistan, the Iran situation is yet another negative byproduct of Iraq. This was an administration that fired scatter shot and did not carefully pick its targets.

- wolf

 

[fskimospy]

I disagree that a military strike 5 years ago would not have been effective. Your point about Iraq misses my point - we never should have been in Iraq to begin with. Not only were we too busy "furiously fighting" there, but Bush blew our international credibility on that war. Without it, we could probably have gotten broad NATO support for, and participation in, strikes against Iran. Along with Afghanistan, the Iran situation is yet another negative byproduct of Iraq. This was an administration that fire scatter shot and did not carefully pick its targets.

- wolf

Whether or not it would have been effective (and I have doubts about that as even by 2006 Iran's nuclear program was highly dispersed and significantly hardened), it was simply not possible. Not only that, but our intel as to Iran's nuclear ambitions was highly fragmentary at that time, as reflected by a 2007 NIE that determined Iran was not actively pursuing nuclear weapons:

http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20071203_release.pdf

With that in mind I just don't find your NATO strike scenario plausible.

 

[woolfe9999]

Whether or not it would have been effective (and I have doubts about that as even by 2006 Iran's nuclear program was highly dispersed and significantly hardened), it was simply not possible. Not only that, but our intel as to Iran's nuclear ambitions was highly fragmentary at that time, as reflected by a 2007 NIE that determined Iran was not actively pursuing nuclear weapons:

http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20071203_release.pdf

With that in mind I just don't find your NATO strike scenario plausible.

So what then is your solution to nuclear non-proliferation?

 

[Lemon law]

So what then is your solution to nuclear non-proliferation?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I asked you on this thread, if you would support making the mid-east into a nuclear weapons free zone by also disarming Israel?

Still waiting for your response--and waiting---and waiting for an end to your hypocrisy.

 

[woolfe9999]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I asked you on this thread, if you would support making the mid-east into a nuclear weapons free zone by also disarming Israel?

Still waiting for your response--and waiting---and waiting for an end to your hypocrisy.

I responded to your inane post already, on this page.

And now you're butting into a discussion between adults. In other words, two people who actually prefer that Iran not have nuclear weapons, whether Israel has them or not.

- wolf

 

[Infohawk]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I asked you on this thread, if you would support making the mid-east into a nuclear weapons free zone by also disarming Israel?

Still waiting for your response--and waiting---and waiting for an end to your hypocrisy.

Stop being so dramatic. It's bad enough your posts are of low quality and that you're trying to pester someone who's having a rational discussion. But really your self-aggrandizing tone is just absurd and embarrassing (for you).

 

[davmat787]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I asked you on this thread, if you would support making the mid-east into a nuclear weapons free zone by also disarming Israel?

Still waiting for your response--and waiting---and waiting for an end to your hypocrisy.

You must have missed his remark saying that if he could snap his fingers and magically rid the world of ALL nuclear weapons, he would do so without hesitation.

 

[brainhulk]

http://news.yahoo.com/iran-very-close-having-bomb-104334350.html

A report from United Nations energy officials claims that Iran has already mastered the steps necessary to build nuclear weapons, putting the nation on the brink of joining the world's nuclear powers. The International Atomic Energy Agency is set to issue the report later this week, but The Washington Post unveiled its key details on Sunday.

things should start to get very interadasting

 

[ericlp]

good... It will keep Israel in check. I doubt it will change anything ... the only thing it will change will be no more threats to go bomb them.