UN trying to create report that says Iran is working on developing nuclear weapons.

[Engineer]

The military industrial complex needs a perpetual boogie man to keep the money flowing. Iran is the next logical choice.

Absolutely.

 

[Nebor]

LOL PROOF onlt 4,000 paid fighting men in Iraq.

I can only speak to US troop numbers (there are a substantial amount of "paid fighting men" that aren't in the military.) We're due to be completely out of their country, save the Embassy guard force, in about 6 weeks. All brigade combat teams have withdrawn to Kuwait with many of them sending their soldiers back to the states. The only people remaining are the logistics people working feverishly to get everything packed up, handed over and to "turn off the lights."

 

[Engineer]

I might be mistaken, but it seems to me that assuring our kids grow up in a world where radical Muslims aren't armed with nukes transcends any partisan debate.

I'm not debating anything. Put your money and body where your mouth is.

 

[SamurAchzar]

The military industrial complex needs a perpetual boogie man to keep the money flowing. Iran is the next logical choice.

Of course, the MIC is to blame, IAEA is a fraud, American and Israeli intelligence is fake, Obama is an AIPAC tool and if you look closely on Israeli FM Lieberman's beard you can see the remains of the Palestinian children blood he drinks on Israeli government meetings. The Osirak reactor Israel bombed in 1981 was a candy factory and the Syrian reactor Israel allegedly bombed in 2007 was a filming site for gay porn. You know everything and anything because your parents basement is hardwired into intelligence sources.

 

[SamurAchzar]

I'm not debating anything. Put your money and body where your mouth is.

Yes, I'll just go in Rambo style and kill all of them.

 

[Engineer]

Yes, I'll just go in Rambo style and kill all of them.

No you won't. You'll sit behind your keyboard and monitor in the US while cheering the bombing and then bitch about paying for it. Fucking Neocon.

 

[SamurAchzar]

No you won't. You'll sit behind your keyboard and monitor in the US while cheering the bombing and then bitch about paying for it. Fucking Neocon.

This I won't have any trouble paying for.

 

[Jhhnn]

I might be mistaken, but it seems to me that assuring our kids grow up in a world where radical Muslims aren't armed with nukes transcends any partisan debate.

If you'd extend that prohibition to radical Zionists, I'd agree.

But we're not really talking about radical Muslims wrt Iran, anyway. They're not Al Qaeda, no matter how broad a brush you try to tar them with. Their own hard liners hold sway because they can rally the population in response to an outside threat. Ravings from the US and Israel are a demonstrable threat, something you pointedly ignore as if it didn't exist. Ongoing sanctions are more than that.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Iran is no Iraq.

True...but Israel will still take it out!!

 

[Lemon law]

Sammy is Israeli fan clubber blind blind and blind in saying, " I might be mistaken, but it seems to me that assuring our kids grow up in a world where radical Muslims aren't armed with nukes transcends any partisan debate. "

As Sammy has no understanding of history or historical trends.

As we are living in a post colonial world, where the last vestiges of colonialism mainly play out in Muslim regions. With the prime motivators being oil. As the US and Europe are oil dependent, and as Colonialism became a dying institution post WW2, the US and Europe who desperately need oil, try to replace colonialism with economic and military domination of Muslim oil rich countries. Which in turn has contributed to the rise of Muslim radicals who fight with the only weapons they have, namely terrorism.

But still the West somewhat had it mainly their way, as the two oil richest countries in the Arab world, in Iran and Saudi Arabia sold their oil to the West dirt cheap. In 1979 with the Iranian revolution, the West went into denial, as Iran asserted its right to determine its own future foreign policy. Now with the events of the Arab spring, the West's hold on the two remaining oil rich nations in Saudi Arabia and Iraq are held with very tenuous ties as Uncle Sam blew all Arab cred on its stance against a Palestinian State.

As any Israeli attack on Iran is likely to move Iraq to a distantly anti-Western stance and probable end the house of Faud rule of Saudi Arabia.

As for tiny Israel, it would be a tiny side show as nations like China, India, Turkey and Russian would step in to capitalize on the US European blunder mega blunder.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally Posted by SamurAchzar -- I might be mistaken, but it seems to me that assuring our kids grow up in a world where radical Muslims aren't armed with nukes transcends any partisan debate.

original poster Engineer --I'm not debating anything. Put your money and body where your mouth is.

why? You actually think that if Iran was armed or for that matter radical Muslims were armed with nuclear weapons that they would NOT use them??

You are so sadly mistaken.....

 

[JEDIYoda]

Sammy is Israeli fan clubber blind blind and blind in saying, " I might be mistaken, but it seems to me that assuring our kids grow up in a world where radical Muslims aren't armed with nukes transcends any partisan debate. "

As Sammy has no understanding of history or historical trends.

As we are living in a post colonial world, where the last vestiges of colonialism mainly play out in Muslim regions. With the prime motivators being oil. As the US and Europe are oil dependent, and as Colonialism became a dying institution post WW2, the US and Europe who desperately need oil, try to replace colonialism with economic and military domination of Muslim oil rich countries. Which in turn has contributed to the rise of Muslim radicals who fight with the only weapons they have, namely terrorism.

But still the West somewhat had it mainly their way, as the two oil richest countries in the Arab world, in Iran and Saudi Arabia sold their oil to the West dirt cheap. In 1979 with the Iranian revolution, the West went into denial, as Iran asserted its right to determine its own future foreign policy. Now with the events of the Arab spring, the West's hold on the two remaining oil rich nations in Saudi Arabia and Iraq are held with very tenuous ties as Uncle Sam blew all Arab cred on its stance against a Palestinian State.

As any Israeli attack on Iran is likely to move Iraq to a distantly anti-Western stance and probable end the house of Faud rule of Saudi Arabia.

As for tiny Israel, it would be a tiny side show as nations like China, India, Turkey and Russian would step in to capitalize on the US European blunder mega blunder.

must be some real fine shrooms your using........

 

[SamurAchzar]

If you'd extend that prohibition to radical Zionists, I'd agree.

Would you support admitting Israel into NATO and assuring it of protection? Or should the Jews simply remain defenseless in light of a billion Muslims whose scripts demand Jews to convert or die, some of them with nukes already?

But we're not really talking about radical Muslims wrt Iran, anyway. They're not Al Qaeda, no matter how broad a brush you try to tar them with. Their own hard liners hold sway because they can rally the population in response to an outside threat. Ravings from the US and Israel are a demonstrable threat, something you pointedly ignore as if it didn't exist. Ongoing sanctions are more than that.

They are everything it's morally convenient for you to be. You would try to portray anyone in a positive light for as long as they are insistent on the destruction of Israel.
The facts are, they are a sponsor of Hizbullah, they provided arms to terrorist groups inside Iraq and run their country by the strictest codes of Islam, including stoning women to death and beating and torturing civilians that violate Islamic decency laws.

 

[Engineer]

why? You actually think that if Iran was armed or for that matter radical Muslims were armed with nuclear weapons that they would NOT use them??

You are so sadly mistaken.....

I don't know but if you want to sign up and go with your buddy above, go right ahead. Make sure you send the government a check to help pay for it too. Put your body and your money where your (and his) mouth is.

 

[SamurAchzar]

I don't know but if you want to sign up and go with your buddy above, go right ahead. Make sure you send the government a check to help pay for it too. Put your body and your money where your (and his) mouth is.

Continuing this fascinating line of thought, I suggest US armed forces will become independent from the civilian administration and decide on their own foreign policy. After all no ordinary civilians can expect to be protected from foreign threats. The armed forces are self-serving and unless you are on active duty, you have no moral right to ask them to fight for you.

 

[Jhhnn]

True...but Israel will still take it out!!

One of our resident Israeli fanboi delusionists chimes in.

Izroyel will conquer the world! All 7.7 million of them! They're super human!

Iran is a very big place, with a population of ~78M. Most of the country lies outside the range of Israeli aircraft. If attacked, they'll follow their leadership through the gates of Hell, as they proved in the Iran-Iraq war.

An Israeli attack would be a lot like hitting a hornets' nest with a stick, waiting around to see what will happen. Israel simply lacks the means for an extended conflict. The Iranians do not, and they likely won't quit, ever, short of annihilation.

Are your Israeli friends prepared to engage in nuclear mass murder of a few 10 million people to maintain their nuclear monopoly of the area? Do you think that the rest of the world will just go along?

If you do, you're a complete idiot.

 

[Nebor]

One of our resident Israeli fanboi delusionists chimes in.

Izroyel will conquer the world! All 7.7 million of them! They're super human!

Iran is a very big place, with a population of ~78M. Most of the country lies outside the range of Israeli aircraft. If attacked, they'll follow their leadership through the gates of Hell, as they proved in the Iran-Iraq war.

An Israeli attack would be a lot like hitting a hornets' nest with a stick, waiting around to see what will happen. Israel simply lacks the means for an extended conflict. The Iranians do not, and they likely won't quit, ever, short of annihilation.

Are your Israeli friends prepared to engage in nuclear mass murder of a few 10 million people to maintain their nuclear monopoly of the area? Do you think that the rest of the world will just go along?

If you do, you're a complete idiot.

We didn't call it that when we bombed Japan...

 

[SamurAchzar]

An Israeli attack would be a lot like hitting a hornets' nest with a stick, waiting around to see what will happen. Israel simply lacks the means for an extended conflict. The Iranians do not, and they likely won't quit, ever, short of annihilation.

Middle Eastern 101: Israel and Iran, unlike Iran and Iraq, do NOT share a common border. Being that the Israeli air force and missile capabilities are vastly superior to the Iranians, and that a land conflict is simply not possible, I don't see what conflict you are talking about.

The only people that will pay the price for this will be the Lebanese civilians, as Hizbullah will be rallied against Israel as an extension of the Iranian forces. This will not last very long as when faced a large scale unprovoked attack, Israel could retaliate in a full scale offensive and flatten this poor country who was just a hostage at the hands of Islamists. Too bad.

 

[Lemon law]

As a Palestinian State looks increasingly inevitable, its maybe time to revisit the two radically different ways an Israeli state can survive in the future.

One Israeli way, and actually the current Israeli strategy, is to depend on Western military powers to keep arming Israel to the teeth. Which has allowed and encouraged Israel to thumb its nose at all 278 million of its Arab neighbors. And lets be fair to Israel here, had Israel not developed a military stance they never would have survived all the united Arab Army attacks after Israeli statehood was UN approved in 1948.

But we must ask, given that was an Israeli virtue in 1948, was it still an Israeli virtue or a vice in 1949 and years beyond. And I submit its now become a deal killer for long term Israeli survival post 1990. And it continues to look even more dimmer for Israel today. Especially as the US, Israel, and Europe may commit a huge blunder in bombing Iran.

At the same time younger Arab leaders align themselves toward democracy, technology, that can benefit all their peoples rather than a few old line dictators and monarchs who looted the economic resources of their respective states. And as a result most Arab States failed to deliver economic progress to their people.

Actually, all Mid-east nations are in the same boat, a lack of water, and maybe Egypt, after finally completing the Aswan Dam, may be in the best shape of any mid-east nation. But still Israel has a giant asset here, as many of the best engineers in the mid-east region, able to work on water projects, are Israeli.

If Israel can ever get off being stuck stupid, they can become a giant regional asset in helping themselves and their neighbors to rebuild a new and far more prosperous entire mid-east region.

 

[Nebor]

As a Palestinian State looks increasingly inevitable, its maybe time to revisit the two radically different ways an Israeli state can survive in the future.

One Israeli way, and actually the current Israeli strategy, is to depend on Western military powers to keep arming Israel to the teeth. Which has allowed and encouraged Israel to thumb its nose at all 278 million of its Arab neighbors. And lets be fair to Israel here, had Israel not developed a military stance they never would have survived all the united Arab Army attacks after Israeli statehood was UN approved in 1948.

But we must ask, given that was an Israeli virtue in 1948, was it still an Israeli virtue or a vice in 1949 and years beyond. And I submit its now become a deal killer for long term Israeli survival post 1990. And it continues to look even more dimmer for Israel today. Especially as the US, Israel, and Europe may commit a huge blunder in bombing Iran.

At the same time younger Arab leaders align themselves toward democracy, technology, that can benefit all their peoples rather than a few old line dictators and monarchs who looted the economic resources of their respective states. And as a result most Arab States failed to deliver economic progress to their people.

Actually, all Mid-east nations are in the same boat, a lack of water, and maybe Egypt, after finally completing the Aswan Dam, may be in the best shape of any mid-east nation. But still Israel has a giant asset here, as many of the best engineers in the mid-east region, able to work on water projects, are Israeli.

If Israel can ever get off being stuck stupid, they can become a giant regional asset in helping themselves and their neighbors to rebuild a new and far more prosperous entire mid-east region.

It only looks that way to you.

And you've got to be kidding, you expect middle easterners to hire Jews to run huge projects for them?

 

[Jhhnn]

We didn't call it that when we bombed Japan...

We need only recall who was the aggressor in that conflict to recognize you're being disingenuous.

 

[Jhhnn]

Middle Eastern 101: Israel and Iran, unlike Iran and Iraq, do NOT share a common border. Being that the Israeli air force and missile capabilities are vastly superior to the Iranians, and that a land conflict is simply not possible, I don't see what conflict you are talking about.

The only people that will pay the price for this will be the Lebanese civilians, as Hizbullah will be rallied against Israel as an extension of the Iranian forces. This will not last very long as when faced a large scale unprovoked attack, Israel could retaliate in a full scale offensive and flatten this poor country who was just a hostage at the hands of Islamists. Too bad.

Should the Israelis attack Iran, then the Iranians will acquire nukes. That's a given. It's a self-defeating proposition for Israel. Iran is also on very good terms with the semi autonomous Kurds in northern Iraq, who'd likely be amenable to allowing Iranian support for Syria & Lebanon to pass through their territory, given that Iran is their counterbalance to southern Iraqis. The Egyptian govt is up in the air, and the new govt might well be amenable to Iranian supplies flowing into Gaza. the Israelis have gone out of their way to offend the Turks, as well, whose navy is vastly superior to Israel's, and whose airforce is also quite capable and well equipped.

Being the target of unwarranted aggression can bring people new friends...

Israeli raving is just that, raving, hoping that their American friends can somehow persuade Uncle Sam to do their dirty work for them, which won't happen, either. We're not trying to get into a middle eastern conflict, but rather get out of one.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Wow, quite the doomsday, eh? Don't forget what went down the last time Israel preemptively stopped an hostile country from acquiring nuclear weapons.

Egypt opposes Iranian nukes as much as Israel does, and anyway the Egyptian army is reliant on USA to such an extent they will not dare messing with Israel.

Turkey will sit this one out; Arduan^H^H^H Erdogan is a big hero when it comes to aggressive rhetoric but so far has made sure no clash between Turkey and Israel takes place, not even additional flotillas. Turkey isn't too fond of the Iranian nukes either.

Syria may or may not get involved in this, depending on the state of Assad's presidency. If he's truly desperate then he might do something rash; I expect that some deal is brokered in which he sits out in exchange for the West not meddling in the Syrian interior affairs as they it did with Libya.

Lebanon military is a joke. They will not dare doing anything. Hizbullah, however, will immediately attack Israel. The Israeli response is dependent on the situation, it might be minimal as in 2006 (10k Israeli troops on the ground and bombing runs) and it might also escalate into an all out campaign that will attempt to root Hizbullah out, with massive reserve activation on the Israeli side.

I think the Middle East will change for good following such a conflict. Israel will be loathed even more, there will be additional radicalization all around the Muslim world and Iran will be in chaos. I was never one for optimism when it comes to the Middle East. I think that the worst is still ahead of us.

 

[Nebor]

Should the Israelis attack Iran, then the Iranians will acquire nukes. That's a given. It's a self-defeating proposition for Israel. Iran is also on very good terms with the semi autonomous Kurds in northern Iraq, who'd likely be amenable to allowing Iranian support for Syria & Lebanon to pass through their territory, given that Iran is their counterbalance to southern Iraqis. The Egyptian govt is up in the air, and the new govt might well be amenable to Iranian supplies flowing into Gaza. the Israelis have gone out of their way to offend the Turks, as well, whose navy is vastly superior to Israel's, and whose airforce is also quite capable and well equipped.

Being the target of unwarranted aggression can bring people new friends...

Israeli raving is just that, raving, hoping that their American friends can somehow persuade Uncle Sam to do their dirty work for them, which won't happen, either. We're not trying to get into a middle eastern conflict, but rather get out of one.

I don't follow.

Feel free to Google news about Israel, and you'll find a couple days worth of articles citing US military sources saying "We don't think Israel is going to give us prior warning about attacking Iran."

You can also find a week's worth of articles about burgeoning US military bases struggling to deal with the largest number of redeployed US troops in a decade, and wandering what to do with all of them.

 

[Nebor]

We need only recall who was the aggressor in that conflict to recognize you're being disingenuous.

We bombed large cities full of civilians. The Israelis want to bomb the isolated nuclear research facilities.

Also by cutting off our trade with Japan, we invited them to attack us. No different than sanctions against Iraq and Libya being a prelude to war, we fired the opening shot with Japan by stopping sales of fuel & raw materials.