UN trying to create report that says Iran is working on developing nuclear weapons.

[Nebor]

I don't think we have very many good options. Not having a good solution is not a reason to undertake a bad solution though.

Action is always better than inaction. Otherwise people will look back and say, "he just stood there and watched!" For example, a 5 year old girl shows up crying on your front lawn. She won't stop sobbing and screaming that a strange dog took one of her shoes. The dog nor the shoe is anywhere in sight, and the girl insists she won't calm down until she gets her other shoe. What choice do you have? Kill the girl.

 

[mizzou]

Isreal is the only likely conclusion for a first strike candidate. At this level, it seems like a pretty good opportunity.

US can sit back and provide logistical support and help create a "no fly zone" i.e. libya.

The other likely conclusion is weve already conceded and dealt with the fact iran will at some point be another nuclear country.

The easiest way to bring them down, although not honorably, is to entice china on how this could be an economic boon for them if this war is conducted properly.

Allow chinese funding of the war via writeoff of euro/us debt portions in return for chinese stakes in irans natural resources

Not sure how helpful that is, though

 

[mizzou]

Do we really need two threads?

 

[Brovane]

If Iran really wants to develop nuclear weapons we cannot stop them from doing this. Let them develop nuclear weapons. They don't have a reliable delivery system even if they develop a nuke.

 

[Karl Agathon]

If Iran really wants to develop nuclear weapons we cannot stop them from doing this. Let them develop nuclear weapons. They don't have a reliable delivery system even if they develop a nuke.

I agree, the train has left the station. Nothing short of a nuclear attack will stop them now. im just having a laugh over all the people who believed the iranian regime when they said they were only interested in nuclear power for peaceful reasons. The U.S. and other nuclear nations can now welcome iran to the nuclear club and let them officially know there is now a nuclear bullseye on them should they ever use a nuke on any nation.

 

[Brovane]

I agree, the train has left the station. Nothing short of a nuclear attack will stop them now. im just having a laugh over all the people who believed the iranian regime when they said they were only interested in nuclear power for peaceful reasons. The U.S. and other nuclear nations can now welcome iran to the nuclear club and let them officially know there is now a nuclear bullseye on them should they ever use a nuke on any nation.

Being part of the nuclear club also means great responsibility. South Africa declined and got rid of all of its nukes.

Probably a sustained coventional bombing campaign by US Bombers could probably stop the program in its tracks. Making nuclear warheads requires a lot of infrastruture and it can be targeted, even if it is placed underground. However their is no consensus amongst the worlds nations to do this. The US taking this unilateral action would do more harm than good.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Midd...warnings-since-1979/Earliest-warnings-1979-84

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Midd...warnings-since-1979/Earliest-warnings-1979-84
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/11/08/129672/iaea-parts-of-iran-nuclear-weapons.html

Israel has been trying to get the US to attack Iran for at least 32 years now claiming they 'almost have nukes'.

 

[JEDIYoda]

good... It will keep Israel in check. I doubt it will change anything ... the only thing it will change will be no more threats to go bomb them.

thats the most assinine statement you have ever made.
keep Israel in check?
You and I both know that if your radical Muslim brothers get a nuclear weapon they will detonate it in a populated area!!

 

[tommo123]

would they though? i mean if an arab country sets a nuke off, wouldn't they risk a retaliation taking out mecha or whatever their holy site is as collateral?

 

[irishScott]

would they though? i mean if an arab country sets a nuke off, wouldn't they risk a retaliation taking out mecha or whatever their holy site is as collateral?

I think Orson Scott Card nailed it in the Ender's Shadow series. He only mentions it in passing, but basically in the future Mecca is radioactive, and it's hinted that that's what it took for the Muslim world to wake up and modernize. So I agree with the inference that the Islamic world is going to use a nuke quite stupidly, get majorly reamed up the ass for it, and then wise up.

Frankly I'm still waiting for something to free us from middle eastern oil, then we can have the same dealings with that sub-continent sandbox of slow children that we have with, say, Macedonia. Which is to say effectively none.

 

[EagleKeeper]

would they though? i mean if an arab country sets a nuke off, wouldn't they risk a retaliation taking out mecha or whatever their holy site is as collateral?

Terrorists against Israel have continually demonstrated that they do not care about followup retaliation to their actions. To the general population or even to their families. Hatred & desire for glory, insulates them from those feelings

That goes from single incidents all the way to the current Hamas/Hezbollah controlled attacks

 

[EagleKeeper]

Merge Point

EK
Admin

 

[irishScott]

Terrorists against Israel have continually demonstrated that they do not care about followup retaliation to their actions. To the general population or even to their families. Hatred & desire for glory, insulates them from those feelings

That goes from single incidents all the way to the current Hamas/Hezbollah controlled attacks

This. You've even got mothers wishing their children would become suicide bombers in some cases. Crazy does not follow rational rules.

 

[peonyu]

A Nuke is a deterent. It will make Israel hesitate about attacking Iran and Israel's nation that it has on a leash [USA] will also not attack.

 

[EagleKeeper]

A Nuke is a deterent. It will make Israel hesitate about attacking Iran and Israel's nation that it has on a leash [USA] will also not attack.

If the nuke is deliverable, it is a deterrent.

Otherwise it is a big fat target. The same with the final research of a nuke.

Given Iran's track record on missiles...

 

[Karl Agathon]

im glad israel is getting a few more subs to add to their nuclear second strike capability

 

[fskimospy]

Terrorists against Israel have continually demonstrated that they do not care about followup retaliation to their actions. To the general population or even to their families. Hatred & desire for glory, insulates them from those feelings

That goes from single incidents all the way to the current Hamas/Hezbollah controlled attacks

Arab countries are not equal to terrorist organizations, so I don't know why you would try to equate the two.

 

[woolfe9999]

Here is the IAEA report:

http://isis-online.org/uploads/isis-reports/documents/IAEA_Iran_8Nov2011.pdf

Anyone reading this who thinks that Iran does not have an active weaponization program, as well as ongoing and serious research into delivery systems, is delusional.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Terrorists against Israel have continually demonstrated that they do not care about followup retaliation to their actions. To the general population or even to their families. Hatred & desire for glory, insulates them from those feelings

That goes from single incidents all the way to the current Hamas/Hezbollah controlled attacks

Arab countries are not equal to terrorist organizations, so I don't know why you would try to equate the two.

Not trying to directly equate the two.

However, all three Arab countries that have tried to develop/obtain nukes have demonstrated a willingness to provide terrorists against Israel with fairly sophisticated arms and support. One country has already launched WMD against Israel.

It is not a large leap to hand over such weapons capability to proxies especially when one "does not" have a nuke weapons program. Perfect testbed exists for such.

 

[fskimospy]

Not trying to directly equate the two.

However, all three Arab countries that have tried to develop/obtain nukes have demonstrated a willingness to provide terrorists against Israel with fairly sophisticated arms and support. One has already launched WMD against Israel.

It is not a large leap to hand over such weapons capability to proxies especially when one "does not" have a nuke weapons program. Perfect testbed exists for such.

It really is a huge leap.

What does 'weapons capability' even mean, anyway? These weapons are incredibly difficult to manufacture; simply handing the capability to a group would get you nothing, they would have to hand over a completed weapon. Completed weapons leave trails that can be traced, and no country is going to risk annihilation in that way any more than they would by launching it themselves.

 

[EagleKeeper]

How can you trace back to something that does not exist?
NK was able to purchase Pakistani technology and support.
Iran has been able to purchase technology and support.
Syria also.

The terrorists have smart, intelligent people also as leaders and technical advisers; not just the "dumb" ones to act a martyrs.

Leg work is done at the host site; minimal needed knowledge is then transferred to the proxy.

Look how quick knowledge in the beginning was transferred between the US (involuntarily) and the Soviets and then to the Chinese. Each transfer went smoother and faster than the last.

You now have Iranian scientists (working for the state) along with Russian and Pakistani scientists (for sale), that can easily get the finished technology transferred into the "improper" hands for the right price.

How well it works will not matter as long as some destruction is generated.

 

[fskimospy]

How can you trace back to something that does not exist?
NK was able to purchase Pakistani technology and support.
Iran has been able to purchase technology and support.
Syria also.

The terrorists have smart, intelligent people also as leaders and technical advisers; not just the "dumb" ones to act a martyrs.

Leg work is done at the host site; minimal needed knowledge is then transferred to the proxy.

Look how quick knowledge in the beginning was transferred between the US (involuntarily) and the Soviets and then to the Chinese. Each transfer went smoother and faster than the last.

You now have Iranian scientists (working for the state) along with Russian and Pakistani scientists (for sale), that can easily get the finished technology transferred into the "improper" hands for the right price.

How well it works will not matter as long as some destruction is generated.

I really don't think you understand how complicated nuclear weapons are. There is absolutely ZERO evidence that any terrorist group has the technical knowledge, the fine machining facilities, the centrifuge networks, or sufficient access to fissile material in order to make a functioning weapon. There's a reason it is taking Iran, a reasonably large and powerful nation with vastly greater resources than any terrorist group, years to make one.

If they transfer nuclear technology to a terrorist group that uses it, it can most certainly be traced back to them. Any country that is found to have passed nuclear weapons to a proxy group will certainly share that proxy group's fate, and they know it.

Your scenario just isn't realistic.

 

[woolfe9999]

I really don't think you understand how complicated nuclear weapons are. There is absolutely ZERO evidence that any terrorist group has the technical knowledge, the fine machining facilities, the centrifuge networks, or sufficient access to fissile material in order to make a functioning weapon. There's a reason it is taking Iran, a reasonably large and powerful nation with vastly greater resources than any terrorist group, years to make one.

If they transfer nuclear technology to a terrorist group that uses it, it can most certainly be traced back to them. Any country that is found to have passed nuclear weapons to a proxy group will certainly share that proxy group's fate, and they know it.

Your scenario just isn't realistic.

Your first paragraph is beyond dispute IMO. No terrorist group will ever have the resources or expertise to build a nuclear weapon.

I'm more interested in your second - that any nuclear weapon supplied to terrorists by a government could easily be tracked back after it is detonated. I can see there being good circumstantial evidence based on the general type of bomb used (i.e. uranium vs. plutonium) and its yield, but since the bomb is atomized in the explosion, can there be conclusive evidence?

- wolf

 

[EagleKeeper]

One does not need to have a properly working weapon.

As stated both in my first and last sentence that you quoted.
If it does not exist; then there is no trail. (that is the official position w/ respect to Iran)
If it does not work perfectly; but something happens; it will accomplish the intent. (that is the aim of the terrorist leadership)

From the terrorist viewpoint, retaliation has no bearing as long as it is not on their head directly. we have seen how the leadership of Hamas, Hezbollah and Fatah (Arafat) cry for protection when ever Israel threatens them;

If the Russians and Pakistani's can be bribed for information/technology, why are the Iranians so special.

A working bomb is not needed with all the precision machining to get a maximum yield.

Just the enriched material and a way to disperse it will cause the desired effect.