UN assembly votes in favor of PALESTINIAN STATEHOOD!

[Greenman]

Skip the blood, what about economic sanctions?

They won't do it if the cost is over a few bucks, otherwise they would have done it already. It's like pumping up your drunk buddy that's going to go fight a bear. You tell him he's a badass, you tell him he's going to make that bear sorry, you tell him you're right behind him. But you know he's going to get mauled to death and you're already planing to bang his girlfriend, because you never really liked him anyway. That's what the UN just did.

 

[Lemon law]

They won't do it if the cost is over a few bucks, otherwise they would have done it already. It's like pumping up your drunk buddy that's going to go fight a bear. You tell him he's a badass, you tell him he's going to make that bear sorry, you tell him you're right behind him. But you know he's going to get mauled to death and you're already planing to bang his girlfriend, because you never really liked him anyway. That's what the UN just did.

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Just more whistling past the graveyard, as the other question becomes what will be the future Israeli government? Simply because new Israeli elections are scheduled on 1/22/2013.
Will the Israeli people continue to back Netanyuhu, his crazed Israeli party idiots, or will the Israeli people elect more moderate politicians who are committed to settling the Israeli Palestinian issues in a way that benefits both sides?

And with some 50 days remaining until those elections, what actions by the international community will sway those elections.

As the hardliners in Israel may be playing a very dangerous game, if Israel continues to demand too much, Israel may instead get nothing in the end.

As I again maintain, its no longer about the rotten past, its now about the future.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Most likely Netanyahu's position will be strengthened in the coming elections and Abbas will have to figure out how to reign in Hamas. If he can do that then the next cycle of elections may return more moderate leaders.

 

[Jhhnn]

The Palestinians agreed not do go about statehood unilaterally. Then they did. How else can you read it? I see it ad breaking that agreement.

The Palestinian economic blockade is a result of Palestinian actions against Israel.
Yee reap what yee sow. Next time do not attack and lose.

Heh. Netanyahu broke the Oslo accords long ago. The film is from 2001, and he's bragging about breaking the accords earlier, when he was prime minister, 1996 to 1999.

How can the Pals break something that the Israelis broke long ago? They held up that part of the bargain for over a decade after Israel reneged on their part. Your claim in that regard is utterly dishonest.

The blockade is part & parcel of the Israeli demand that Pals submit to them entirely, to be subjects of Israel w/o being citizens. It's a common method of all occupations- beat 'em into submission.

 

[Lemon law]

Most likely Netanyahu's position will be strengthened in the coming elections and Abbas will have to figure out how to reign in Hamas. If he can do that then the next cycle of elections may return more moderate leaders.

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Maybe a semi valid point, Haybasusa, but to lay all the responsibility and Obligations on only Abbas and Fatah ignores the equal Israel responsibilities.

Simply because the Palestinians have been struggling to assert their human rights. And by 2005, the Palestinians schismed into the non-violent party of Fatah, who maintained non-violence was the best way to achieve their rights, While Hamas took the opposite position and maintained only unremitting violent resistance to Israeli domination was the best way to achieve their human rights.

One would think that Israel would reward Fatah for their non-violent and did not. Simply proving to the rest of the world, that violence or non violence by Palestinians would advance Palestinian rights.

Now the international community has spoken and said Israel better respect Palestinian non-violence as the only best way forward.

As Bozo Netanyuhu and his crazed supporters say fuck any Palestinian options. As Hamas violence advocates options look at the Fatah non-violent UN victories success with renewed Fatah respect. And may rejoin Fatah if and and only if Israel starts negotiating in good faith. Which is now a decision up to only the Israeli electorate.

But if Fatah non-violence now fails to advance Palestinian human rights against continued Israeli stupidity, why should Hamas be inclined to renounce violence?

As Habasusa seems to think its not a decision that must be made by Israel. As the ball is now in the Israeli court, and Israel must choose to either get real or expect more violent opposition. As Israel chooses to become a rouge State if it does not get real.

Nor does the international community have to opt to go to war with Israel when a economic and diplomatic embargo against Israel will send the message far more effectively.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Right now there is one party who may be able to break the stalemate between the extremes in the Palestinian and Israeli camps and that is Abbas. Israel isn't going to deal with Hamas in any friendly way as a tenet of that organization is death to Jews. If the Palestinians can get them under control then more moderate influences in Israel have a chance.

This is something which amazes me, that people are surprised when people under pressure tend to revolt against it. It's precisely what happened with Bush and his Axis speech in Iraq. It's what's happening now with the settlement expansions. It's a way to thumb their noses at those who would force a response against Israel.

If the UN wanted to be productive then it would address the security concerns of Israel re Hamas AND the expansion of settlements. Work to give both sides something in exchange while requiring something from each. Start small and go from there. One or both sides might not cooperate, but it's far more likely to succeed than bluster or threat.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I thought Hamas was going to change their charter.......whatever happened to that????

You know a more peace loving people who do not want all Jews to be destroyed...

 

[piasabird]

They can vote for terrorists if they want. That will not solve any problems.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I thought Hamas was going to change their charter.......whatever happened to that????

You know a more peace loving people who do not want all Jews to be destroyed...

It wasn't internally politically viable to do so, so were supposed to ignore that part. Yeah, I don't buy it either.

 

[PingviN]

As the hardliners in Israel may be playing a very dangerous game, if Israel continues to demand too much, Israel may instead get nothing in the end.

Like the Palestinians then? Wanting everything, now getting nothing. Will you be supporting Israel when it happens?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Like the Palestinians then? Wanting everything, now getting nothing. Will you be supporting Israel when it happens?

Who is going to take it away from Israel involuntarily?
The Arabs tried; the Palestinians have tried, both to no avail.

the Palestinians as a whole have demonstrated that there is no near term peace planned with Israel and not really interested in trying to get a solution.

After the Palestinian election; those that want peace within the Palestinian community will have to reign in the militants convincingly. Remove Hamas from power control in Gaza.

Then go to Israel and ask for meetings to resolve differences and address Israel's need for security.

As long as Hamas is in the picture and with the Hamas charter; Israel is no going to back off much. Now if Hamas is shown to actually given up attacks on Israel and is stopping ALL attacks; then progress can be made.

The ball is in the Palestinian's court for the peace process.

 

[PingviN]

Who is going to take it away from Israel involuntarily?

LL seems to believe the rest of the world will step in and kick the Israelis to the curb.

lol

 

[Darwin333]

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Maybe exactly the point Darwin. Or to personalize the question to you Darwin, if some armed thugs broke into your home, kicked all your famdamily members out of your own home, would you not feel justified in taking back your own home back by force?

Yes I would but if there were a lot more thugs than me and they were much better armed I would most likely lose.

So why are you talking about Palestinian unjustified terrorism?

I don't believe I said it was necessarily unjust. I am a realist and I am looking at the reality of the situation.

As that exactly describes the Israeli position in Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Golan heights. As Israel are simply the armed criminals that used force to illegally seize and evict the original inhabitants.
As Israel is still stealing land it does not and never can own.

As I ask Darwin, assuming you live in the USA, its always possible that a gang of armed thugs will break into your home, kill anyone in your family who resists, and kick the rest out. In which case, your best method of redress is to call the cops, who will presumably then take your house back and arrest the armed thugs and toss them in jail.

Of course I would but there are no international "cops" that can throw Israel into "jail".

The problem it does not quite work that way in the international community as the cops have been missing in action for 44 years and counting. But on 12/29/2012, the cops of the international community are back and made a landmark decision. And decided to rule on the basic premise, that Israel had zero initial right to seize and occupy land in Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Golan heights. And now its long past time for Israel to get out. Because existing international laws and UN laws now apply. And if Israel chooses to defy those laws of civilization, its Israel that will become the rouge State.

As this marks a new turning point in terms of all the other bazzilion Israeli Palestinian threads we have had in the past.

As its long been proved fruitless to argue about all past wrongs and bullshit justifications of a rotten Israeli Palestinian Arab past.

Because now the cops are back, Israel just got dope slapped, and its time to talk about only the future. As Jhhnn quite well puts it, Israel is throwing a temper tantrum, but the international tide has turned against Israel. And like it or not, Israel will have to adjust to new realities.

As I am looking at the future, and in terms of past justifications, this form will not be the deciders. As the other thing to say is, this whole Israeli Arab Palestinian mess has been festering for way more than 64 years, and arriving at a future consensus peace will not be immediate either.

I will ask this again and I do hope you give me a straight answer because I am truly curious. Exactly what is the UN going to do if Israel just flips them the bird? The UN isn't exactly great at fucking with piece of shit 3rd world countries much less a modernly armed one such as Israel. I don't know how much aid we give them a year but is it really enough to sway their decision to expand settlements or whatnot?

 

[airdata]

Voting "no" Thursday were Israel, the United States and Canada, joined by the Czech Republic, Panama and several Pacific island nations: Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru and Palau. The Pacific nations typically support the U.S. and Israel at the U.N. on key General Assembly resolutions.

So in other words, The only No vote came from Israel... which is understandable if they're occupying Palestinian land.

 

[EagleKeeper]

LL seems to believe the rest of the world will step in and kick the Israelis to the curb.

lol

Some of the world may consider sanctions against Israel.

However, not enough will actually do so that it will make a difference.

 

[EagleKeeper]

So in other words, The only No vote came from Israel... which is understandable if they're occupying Palestinian land.

Apparently you have a problem with reading.
Non Pacific nations also voted NO.

Interesting that over the years, the Arab nations have voted as a bloc with the Soviets and Chinese against Israel.

Never saw them condemn Egypt or Jordan for their occupation of the Palestinians.

 

[EagleKeeper]

So in other words, The only No vote came from Israel... which is understandable if they're occupying Palestinian land.

Apparently you have a problem with reading.
Non Pacific nations also voted NO.

Interesting that over the years, the Arab nations have voted as a bloc with the Soviets and Chinese against Israel.

Never saw them condemn Egypt or Jordan for their occupation of the Palestinian area after '48.

 

[Lemon law]

Some of the world may consider sanctions against Israel.

However, not enough will actually do so that it will make a difference.

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At least EK is starting to talk about the future. And now only a few days after Israel announced new settlement plans, the UN protests are starting to mount up.

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=29445

But EK may get his answer quicker than he thinks when and if the issue hits the security council. As the USA then refuses to veto it. Meanwhile in the rest of the world, no one is talking economic sanctions yet, but Israeli ambassadors are being hauled into carpets already. As EK may get his answer to see if the Israeli settlement issue is just starting and will keep building, or if the issue will die down.

We should know well before Israeli elections.

 

[Incorruptible]

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At least EK is starting to talk about the future. And now only a few days after Israel announced new settlement plans, the UN protests are starting to mount up.

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=29445

But EK may get his answer quicker than he thinks when and if the issue hits the security council. As the USA then refuses to veto it. Meanwhile in the rest of the world, no one is talking economic sanctions yet, but Israeli ambassadors are being hauled into carpets already. As EK may get his answer to see if the Israeli settlement issue is just starting and will keep building, or if the issue will die down.

We should know well before Israeli elections.

Its all talk and no action, if sanctioning Israel would cause them to suffer then they wont do it, they dont care about the Palestinians but use them for political purposes

 

[Lemon law]

As inconsolable maintains "its all talk and no action?"

Funny thing, that is what South Africa said too. What England said before it lost India in 1948, what the USA said before it lost the Vietnam war, what the Russians said when they tried to grab Afghanistan. I can on and on, about world changes, as only fools think the world will never change.

As its going to be about the future and not the past. And now the entire world is looking at Israeli denial of reality with total disbelief and growing anger.

 

[Incorruptible]

As inconsolable maintains "its all talk and no action?"

Funny thing, that is what South Africa said too. What England said before it lost India in 1948, what the USA said before it lost the Vietnam war, what the Russians said when they tried to grab Afghanistan. I can on and on, about world changes, as only fools think the world will never change.

As its going to be about the future and not the past. And now the entire world is looking at Israeli denial of reality with total disbelief and growing anger.

So what is the end plan? Is the whole world going to stand up against Israel and wipe out everyone there and give it to the Palestinians and Hamas?

 

[EagleKeeper]

As inconsolable maintains "its all talk and no action?"

Funny thing, that is what South Africa said too. What England said before it lost India in 1948, what the USA said before it lost the Vietnam war, what the Russians said when they tried to grab Afghanistan. I can on and on, about world changes, as only fools think the world will never change.

As its going to be about the future and not the past. And now the entire world is looking at Israeli denial of reality with total disbelief and growing anger.

Who is going to walk Israel back to the '48 borders?

Will that same entity also guarantee that there will be no attacks on Israel or her citizens from the Palestinians or Arabs or Muslim nations?

 

[Lemon law]

So what is the end plan? Is the whole world going to stand up against Israel and wipe out everyone there and give it to the Palestinians and Hamas?

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Maybe the correct questions to ask as we also ask the inverse question.

Why should the world instead give all the disputed territories to only Israel and say Palestinians have no human rights?

A question that has not only festered for over 44 years?

As Israel in reality has zero basis for claiming any territory past its 1948 borders.

As that other question becomes, should it be a a question that Israel or the Palestinians getting it all, one clear winner and one clear loser.

Or is a compromise possible where both sides can live together?

As Israel. after getting dope slapped in the 11/29/2012 UN General assembly vote, its only Israel that has acted to reject any compromise as they demand it all.

I don't know about you, but I would prefer a negotiated settlement, as Israel and only Israel has now clearly rejected that negotiated settlement compromise.

 

[randomrogue]

I'm a bit unclear why the Palestinians did this. Was it simply a power play between Hamas and Fatah? There is no real benefit to the Palestinians. If anything this has hurt them since their negotiations are with Israel.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

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Maybe the correct questions to ask as we also ask the inverse question.

Why should the world instead give all the disputed territories to only Israel and say Palestinians have no human rights?

A question that has not only festered for over 44 years?

As Israel in reality has zero basis for claiming any territory past its 1948 borders.

As that other question becomes, should it be a a question that Israel or the Palestinians getting it all, one clear winner and one clear loser.

Or is a compromise possible where both sides can live together?

As Israel. after getting dope slapped in the 11/29/2012 UN General assembly vote, its only Israel that has acted to reject any compromise as they demand it all.

I don't know about you, but I would prefer a negotiated settlement, as Israel and only Israel has now clearly rejected that negotiated settlement compromise.

You curiously ignore the Hamas charter. No one settles with those who want you dead.