UN assembly votes in favor of PALESTINIAN STATEHOOD!

[Lemon law]

As EK asks a really weird question by saying, "Will that same entity also guarantee that there will be no attacks on Israel or her citizens from the Palestinians or Arabs or Muslim nations?"

Where in the weird imagination of EK should there be any such guarantees. After Israel has spent 64 plus years, screwing Muslims, Arabs, and Palestinians, why should Palestinians, Muslims, and Palestinian forgive and forget?

Did the USA forgive Nazi Germany and Japan after they declared war on the USA in WW2? As that answer was a no, what came around went around, as the USA and its allies bombed Japan and Germany back to the stone age in the end. As both Germany and Japan knew better than to ask for any mercy. Why should Israel be the only country in the world to demand a guarantee of mercy given all their past misdeeds.

The world simply don't work that way, EK. Pay back is a bitch.

But not to be totally negative about the future of Israel, history teaches us about forgiveness after the war is lost. As its the USA's Lincoln who let the Southern confederacy up gently, the USA decision to let up Germany and Japan up gently after WW2. and who can forget Nelson Mendella letting up white South Africans up gently, when they had no guarantee of fair treatment.

But now that the world moral tide has turned against Israel on 11/29/2012, Israel has to be the most foolish nation in world history? Because it now clearly time for Israeli negotiation, to have a chance of that soft Israeli landing, and instead Israel proves to the world they deserve no mercy.

Another Israeli Masada moment brought to Israel under the leadership of Bozo Netanyuhu. Say EK, exactly how well did Masada one work for the Israeli people, after Israeli leadership got on the last nerve of Roman's. Now there is a new world leadership, who wants a negotiated solution to mid-east peace,. As Israeli leadership again says we will climb MT. Masada again.

The Roman's were not exactly merciful in Masada one, why EK, do you think a Masdada 2 will work out better?

 

[EagleKeeper]

IF Israel had no legal right to territory outside '48 then how was Egypt and Jordan able to deal the boundaries that existed prior to '67. They are not the same as the UN.

Who is going to act as Rome?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

As EK asks a really weird question by saying, "Will that same entity also guarantee that there will be no attacks on Israel or her citizens from the Palestinians or Arabs or Muslim nations?"

Where in the weird imagination of EK should there be any such guarantees. After Israel has spent 64 plus years, screwing Muslims, Arabs, and Palestinians, why should Palestinians, Muslims, and Palestinian forgive and forget?

Did the USA forgive Nazi Germany and Japan after they declared war on the USA in WW2? As that answer was a no, what came around went around, as the USA and its allies bombed Japan and Germany back to the stone age in the end. As both Germany and Japan knew better than to ask for any mercy. Why should Israel be the only country in the world to demand a guarantee of mercy given all their past misdeeds.

The world simply don't work that way, EK. Pay back is a bitch.

But not to be totally negative about the future of Israel, history teaches us about forgiveness after the war is lost. As its the USA's Lincoln who let the Southern confederacy up gently, the USA decision to let up Germany and Japan up gently after WW2. and who can forget Nelson Mendella letting up white South Africans up gently, when they had no guarantee of fair treatment.

But now that the world moral tide has turned against Israel on 11/29/2012, Israel has to be the most foolish nation in world history? Because it now clearly time for Israeli negotiation, to have a chance of that soft Israeli landing, and instead Israel proves to the world they deserve no mercy.

Another Israeli Masada moment brought to Israel under the leadership of Bozo Netanyuhu. Say EK, exactly how well did Masada one work for the Israeli people, after Israeli leadership got on the last nerve of Roman's. Now there is a new world leadership, who wants a negotiated solution to mid-east peace,. As Israeli leadership again says we will climb MT. Masada again.

The Roman's were not exactly merciful in Masada one, why EK, do you think a Masdada 2 will work out better?

Ahh, see now. Israel is supposed to be terrorized until Hamas is satisfied. Perhaps Rome can pick out a tenth and execute them like in the good old days. Like EK says who is Rome that would do that?

Like in the days of old if someone proposed this "solution of revenge", I might send the head of the emissary back as my reply. If were playing Roman empire it's in for a penny, in for a pound, although I'd pick katana over spatha or gladius

 

[EagleKeeper]

So LL is saying that year's of tit for tat are going to be forgiven and Israel is not going to be protected. The Palestinians are to be forgiven. Israel must expose itself to Palestinian and Muslim attacks.

Delirious!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So LL is saying that year's of tit for tat are going to be forgiven and Israel is not going to be protected. The Palestinians are to be forgiven. Israel must expose itself to Palestinian and Muslim attacks.

Delirious!

Magic Eight Ball sez... No.

 

[Darwin333]

As inconsolable maintains "its all talk and no action?"

Funny thing, that is what South Africa said too. What England said before it lost India in 1948, what the USA said before it lost the Vietnam war, what the Russians said when they tried to grab Afghanistan. I can on and on, about world changes, as only fools think the world will never change.

As its going to be about the future and not the past. And now the entire world is looking at Israeli denial of reality with total disbelief and growing anger.

Didn't all of those things require massive bloodshed and force to accomplish? I am not talking a few hundred dead either but thousands upon thousands.

So, who is going to take the action and use might against Israel to force them to concede?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Didn't all of those things require massive bloodshed and force to accomplish? I am not talking a few hundred dead either but thousands upon thousands.

So, who is going to take the action and use might against Israel to force them to concede?

Maybe he's going Rambo?

 

[Lemon law]

IF Israel had no legal right to territory outside '48 then how was Egypt and Jordan able to deal the boundaries that existed prior to '67. They are not the same as the UN.

Who is going to act as Rome?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of the last question, who will act as Rome? And that EK may become the international community you think is toothless.

As the other question is, why do we think the Israeli people are only the policies of Bozo Netanhuhu?

Now that world realities have changed, it also becomes a decision of the Israeli electorate.

In the long course of history, many nations have backed megalomaniacs like Bozo Netanyuhu, but few nations who have done so have prospered in the end.

I don't know about you, EK, but I have always advocated seeing a soft landing for Israel and all nations in the mid-east. As all nations in the mid-east have a common problem in the lack of water and how to transport it. A combination of Israeli engineering and Arab co-operation can be a rising tide for all regional boats as new off shore energy assets add to the opportunities.

Choose and choose wisely EK, because Israel pigging it all is not an option any longer. 300 million Arabs against 6 million Israel Jews, is not good long term odds. Especially since Obama is pissed off at Bozo Netanyuhu, and is likely to grease the skids to make sure Netanyuhu falls.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The international community isn't going to force Israel to accept an agreement without security built in, end of story.

 

[JEDIYoda]

In terms of the last question, who will act as Rome? And that EK may become the international community you think is toothless.

As the other question is, why do we think the Israeli people are only the policies of Bozo Netanhuhu?

Now that world realities have changed, it also becomes a decision of the Israeli electorate.

In the long course of history, many nations have backed megalomaniacs like Bozo Netanyuhu, but few nations who have done so have prospered in the end.

I don't know about you, EK, but I have always advocated seeing a soft landing for Israel and all nations in the mid-east. As all nations in the mid-east have a common problem in the lack of water and how to transport it. A combination of Israeli engineering and Arab co-operation can be a rising tide for all regional boats as new off shore energy assets add to the opportunities.

Choose and choose wisely EK, because Israel pigging it all is not an option any longer. 300 million Arabs against 6 million Israel Jews, is not good long term odds. Especially since Obama is pissed off at Bozo Netanyuhu, and is likely to grease the skids to make sure Netanyuhu falls.

those mushrooms must be from a hybrid species of fungi.......potent indeed!!

 

[Lemon law]

The international community isn't going to force Israel to accept an agreement without security built in, end of story.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tell us again Hayasusa, how the international community supported a Nazi Germany immunity , Japanese immunity after WW2, and a South African Apartheid Agreement? Or maybe you might want to cite all those Bosnian Surb war criminals or the ever popular Charlie Taylor.

Need I remind you Hayabusa that Israel still faces war crimes charges over its rape of Gaza? Can Israel plead insanity and senility like Penochet and Pol Pot did/

Who are you trying to convince? Surely not only the the nine nations who still supported on 11/29/2012? After the current Israeli government just went into la la land post 11/29/2012 do you really think even those nine would still vote for Israel today? As the Israeli electorate now faces that stark choice, either get real, or become an international rouge nation.

And if Israel choose the latter, Israel can forget any future Israeli security possibilities.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tell us again Hayasusa, how the international community supported a Nazi Germany immunity , Japanese immunity after WW2, and a South African Apartheid Agreement? Or maybe you might want to cite all those Bosnian Surb war criminals or the ever popular Charlie Taylor.

Need I remind you Hayabusa that Israel still faces war crimes charges over its rape of Gaza? Can Israel plead insanity and senility like Penochet and Pol Pot did/

Who are you trying to convince? Surely not only the the nine nations who still supported on 11/29/2012? After the current Israeli government just went into la la land post 11/29/2012 do you really think even those nine would still vote for Israel today? As the Israeli electorate now faces that stark choice, either get real, or become an international rouge nation.

And if Israel choose the latter, Israel can forget any future Israeli security possibilities.

There aren't war crime charges. You are confabulating. I understand you want blood as demonstrated by your insistence that Hamas be permitted to take revenge. That's going nowhere. You think a symbolic vote means that? It does not and any possible solution must include security for Israel. No one but you invokes godwins law, no one sees Pinochet, Jack the Ripper or whatever. They want an end, not vengence. Thats for Hamas and those like them, where the only good jew is a dead one.

 

[Greenman]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tell us again Hayasusa, how the international community supported a Nazi Germany immunity , Japanese immunity after WW2, and a South African Apartheid Agreement? Or maybe you might want to cite all those Bosnian Surb war criminals or the ever popular Charlie Taylor.

Need I remind you Hayabusa that Israel still faces war crimes charges over its rape of Gaza? Can Israel plead insanity and senility like Penochet and Pol Pot did/

Who are you trying to convince? Surely not only the the nine nations who still supported on 11/29/2012? After the current Israeli government just went into la la land post 11/29/2012 do you really think even those nine would still vote for Israel today? As the Israeli electorate now faces that stark choice, either get real, or become an international rouge nation.

And if Israel choose the latter, Israel can forget any future Israeli security possibilities.

I think you've let your hate overrun your common sense. You need to take a step back and read what you're writing here.

 

[Lemon law]

I think you've let your hate overrun your common sense. You need to take a step back and read what you're writing here.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Either that or you place too much faith in long PAST Israeli world support.

By why argue about it as new world realities will become the real test of time and reality.

In case no one noticed, Israel is not adapting to new world realities. As Israel plays exactly the wrong song now.

 

[DCal430]

Can someone explain how Gaza and the Westbank can be made into a single state if they are separated.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Can someone explain how Gaza and the Westbank can be made into a single state if they are separated.

superglue?????

 

[EagleKeeper]

Can someone explain how Gaza and the WestBank can be made into a single state if they are separated.

Palestinians are experienced in digging tunnels.

This one would be big enough to allow trucks through.

But according to some; this will never happen; they should go back to the original '48 design that treats Israel as essentially three sections with two choke points.

Give the Arabs and Palestinians more chances for do-overs.:thumbsdown:

 

[DCal430]

Here is my rough outline of a two state solution that I think both sides could accept.
So simple too.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Two major sticking points I can see here

Would Israel give up access to the Red Sea?
Would the Palestinians want Israel to have access to Jerusalem?

 

[DCal430]

Two major sticking points I can see here

Would Israel give up access to the Red Sea?
Would the Palestinians want Israel to have access to Jerusalem?

West Jerusalem would be part of Israel, and most of East Jerusalem should be part of Palestine. The Red sea access is a sacrifice that can be made.

 

[randomrogue]

The problem is that there is no reason for the Palestinians to have Jerusalem. It's their 3rd holiest city as opposed to the first for the Jews and the last time they were in control of East Jerusalem they did a pretty shitty job.

 

[Lemon law]

The problem is that there is no reason for the Palestinians to have Jerusalem. It's their 3rd holiest city as opposed to the first for the Jews and the last time they were in control of East Jerusalem they did a pretty shitty job.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That certainly was not the thinking of the UN in 1948, as the UN on principle opposed including all of the city of Jerusalem within Israel's 1948 borders.

As we may also be overlooking the fact that the city of Jerusalem is extremely holy to Jews, Muslims, and Christians. As we may also be forgetting that fact, that for most of Christian history, all the Christians sects have been extremely anti-Semitic. Partly due to rapture theories, there may be a temporary alliance between Jews and Christians, but that too may not be permanent.

As for me, I think Jerusalem should be an open city with Jewish, Muslim, and Christian rights of access and international guarantees to that effect.

But that awaits some sort of settlement that Israel opposes.

 

[EagleKeeper]

How much of the city was open to non-Muslims when under control of Jordan?

 

[Lemon law]

Can someone explain how Gaza and the Westbank can be made into a single state if they are separated.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Two magic words, "land swaps." As Israel swaps land within its 1948 borders, for land not within its 1948 borders. Most of those were already agreed on in Principle under the Olmert Abbas agreements in 2008. But then Olmert fell in a corruption scandal in 2008, Netanyuhu took over, and wanted to start with a clean sheet of paper. But still the old Olmert Abbas plan still exists and can form a rapid basis to coming to an agreement.

Then EK raises a valid objection, by asking why should Israel lose control of Red Sea access? Especially given the fact that Red Sea access was within the 1948 borders of Israel. But that too is easy to solve with land swaps and a internationally guaranteed demilitarized zone. The West Bank gets land linking it with Gaza, a crossing underpass or overpass gives Israel land access to the Red Sea, and presto problem solved.

But on the other issue, IMHO, Haybasusa and the present Israel government are 99% nuts in thinking their version of, "The international community isn't going to force Israel to accept an agreement without security built in, end of story" Simply because Israel's version of that is that Israel and only Israel' military will control the air space of the West Bank and its border with Jordan. And the Israeli military will continue to control the air space and sea space of Gaza. But the same idea is still workable if the UN and international community will guarantee secure borders and not the Israeli military. As for continuing Palestinian and Israeli terrorism across such new borders, we can some expect hotheads on both sides to continue to to use terrorists tactics. But still when the motives for terrorism are reduced on BOTH sides, adding fairness and established rules, always reduces terrorism. As the other dimension becomes, Israel is in a good negotiating position now, but if Israel demands too much, they may instead end up with nothing.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

How much of the city was open to non-Muslims when under control of Jordan?

Doesn't matter, Jordanians aren't Jews.

That's why no one cares about the killing of tenths of thousands of Palestinians by Arabs, don't care about how they are starved, their women raped and beaten in their refugee camps either.

They are kinda like Spidey007 is with non-whites, they don't say it out loud but it's obvious enough to anyone who read their words.