UFC 128: Shogun vs Jon Jones

[Woosta]

To clarify to everyone, I have said Jon Jones is the #2 LHW for a long time based on skill. How isn't that giving him props?

He could very well be the next GSP and Shogun be the next Matt Hughes. At this point however, based on their careers it doesn't make any sense for Jon Jones to be the favorite is all I'm saying. Guy will probably be the LHW champ if he doesn't beat Shogun for it. It's only a matter of time.

As of **right now** Shogun is

- the more experienced fighter
- the guy with better ground/bjj
- the *champion*
- chin/striking defense
- the guy with better striking

He has the advantage in everything but youth, wrestling and athleticism. Shogun should at least be the favorite.

 

[randay]

Maybe not, but he has DESTROYED top 15 competition, made that shit look easy, easier than some top 10 guys could have. That in itself designates him a top 10 LHW based on resume and action.

no that makes him top 15, not top 10.


and thats why rankings are always something people argue about. to me to be the best you have to beat the best. and thats the only way to have realistic rankings. if you rank people on potential you are just doing mma math. if you rank them on what they have actually done, then you end up with real tangible rankings based on fact, not fiction.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I think woosta is right. You guys will buy any bs Zuffa throws up against the wall. It's amazing how all of a sudden Jones has become the goat. I mean come on. He's looked impressive against the level right below elite guys but it's a different game when you step up with the elite fighters. You could be right. Maybe he's the next champ but for fuck sake can he win the belt and at least defend his belt one time before he's crowned goat? Wanderlei was reigning pride champ for 5 freaking years at one point. Rampage defended his belt numerous times. Liddell was untouchable for years too. Liddell wasn't just winning but he was having highlight reel KO's on a regular basis.

 

[erikistired]

Because I made a spoiler thread last time and people were complaining since they were supposedly huge fans of MMA but hadn't seen the event yet.

the event hasn't happened yet?

 

[bfdd]

no that makes him top 15, not top 10.


and thats why rankings are always something people argue about. to me to be the best you have to beat the best. and thats the only way to have realistic rankings. if you rank people on potential you are just doing mma math. if you rank them on what they have actually done, then you end up with real tangible rankings based on fact, not fiction.

You don't have to beat a top 10 to get into the top 10. That's not how rankings work, only in your imaginary world. This is NOT a league, if it was so maybe you have some justification in your stupid post, but it isn't. Jones has walked through enough 10-15th ranked guys for him to be top 10 and push a lower top 10 out. Name 10 guys who are ranked ahead of him at LHW. Don't forget the kid is being pushed as someone on a 7 fight win streak in the UFC, not as someone who lost 3 fights ago. Even if he was, point to me another LHW with 3 credible wins in a row.

 

[CPA]

You are the perfect example of a Zuffa sheep. You had absolutely no godamn clue about Jon Jones and now because of this most recent event and with all that Rogan and Goldie stated, you actually believe everything you hear.

Jon Jones would not dominate HW. JDS/Cain/Carwin would not let him roam free and I have a feeling once he loses to Shogun and then perhaps Rampage he'll reconsider.

See this is where I call your bullshit. You think you're the only one who watches these guys from their early days. Guess what, you're not. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we're sheep, we just know a good thing when we see one and Jones is great.

 

[bfdd]

To clarify to everyone, I have said Jon Jones is the #2 LHW for a long time based on skill. How isn't that giving him props?

He could very well be the next GSP and Shogun be the next Matt Hughes. At this point however, based on their careers it doesn't make any sense for Jon Jones to be the favorite is all I'm saying. Guy will probably be the LHW champ if he doesn't beat Shogun for it. It's only a matter of time.

As of **right now** Shogun is

- the more experienced fighter
- the guy with better ground/bjj
- the *champion*
- chin/striking defense
- the guy with better striking

He has the advantage in everything but youth, wrestling and athleticism. Shogun should at least be the favorite.

Shogun has better ground game? Sorry I disagree. Jones has superior grappling. Shogun got grapplefucked by Griffin, whom I do think has underrated grappling(you can see me say this in the 126 thread when talking bout the Rich/Forrest fight), but if Shogun goes down Jones will stay on top and I don't see Shogun getting up very easily.

His advantages are his superior striking technique and experience. The striking gets cut down when you remember that Jon Jones has a 84.5" reach vs Shogun's 76" reach and Jones uses his reach as part of his take downs. This is not a fight that lends itself well to time. Jones will beat Shogun is this goes 5 rounds. He will decision him by keeping him down as both men will probably be breathing heavy if it makes it past the 2nd.

Like I said, I'm a big Shogun fan and I think he can win this fight, but it's going to boil down to how good of a striker Shogun really is and his experience. If his striking is neutralized by take downs, he loses imo.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I don't know where all the GOAT talk came from, but considering this sport is still comparatively new, even that would not mean much.

Wrestlers do well in the UFC because the rules favor them. Jones will have an advantage since Shogun would be playing guard and trying to sweep or sub. Meanwhile Jones will be posturing up and dropping elbows. This fight likely goes to the mat, and Jones will likely finish it there.

I recall Tyson coming up through the ranks, and the nay sayers along the way. He had a hell of run before he fell apart. Jones has that type of potential. Realizing it is all that is left to do. A huge task, but not an insurmountable one.

 

[Rudee]

A couple of well placed kicks to Jone's scrawny chicken legs and it's over.

 

[RPD]

If anyone thinks this fight is has a clear cut easy winner, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[bfdd]

If anyone thinks this fight is has a clear cut easy winner, you are sadly mistaken.

This is what I am trying to say and the biggest reason I think making a 500 dollar bet on either guy is silly.

 

[waggy]

Shogun has better ground game? Sorry I disagree. Jones has superior grappling. Shogun got grapplefucked by Griffin, whom I do think has underrated grappling(you can see me say this in the 126 thread when talking bout the Rich/Forrest fight), but if Shogun goes down Jones will stay on top and I don't see Shogun getting up very easily.

His advantages are his superior striking technique and experience. The striking gets cut down when you remember that Jon Jones has a 84.5" reach vs Shogun's 76" reach and Jones uses his reach as part of his take downs. This is not a fight that lends itself well to time. Jones will beat Shogun is this goes 5 rounds. He will decision him by keeping him down as both men will probably be breathing heavy if it makes it past the 2nd.

Like I said, I'm a big Shogun fan and I think he can win this fight, but it's going to boil down to how good of a striker Shogun really is and his experience. If his striking is neutralized by take downs, he loses imo.

Shogun has shitty ground game. We have seen Jones just rape people on the ground. 2 of the top wrestlers in MMA just fucked.

BUT i don't think jones wins it. this is one fight i think experience is really going to be a huge factor. No way in hell would i put any kind of money on it though. shogun ain't the fighter he used to be and jones can pull it out.

either way it will be a hell of a fight. RIGHT now i give it to shogun but really no clue. its to close to call. but hell of of the few fights i been excited about in a while.

 

[bfdd]

Shogun has shitty ground game. We have seen Jones just rape people on the ground. 2 of the top wrestlers in MMA just fucked.

BUT i don't think jones wins it. this is one fight i think experience is really going to be a huge factor. No way in hell would i put any kind of money on it though. shogun ain't the fighter he used to be and jones can pull it out.

either way it will be a hell of a fight. RIGHT now i give it to shogun but really no clue. its to close to call. but hell of of the few fights i been excited about in a while.

Experience and Shogun's striking ability will be what carries him in the fight. If he can keep the pressure on Jones without getting grabbed he should be able to win. The thing like you said is, Jones grapplefucks people and has a vicious top game, probably enough to smother Shogun. I'm really looking forward to this fight, but I personally think Machida has a better skill set to beat Jones.

 

[TheNinja]

I wouldn't necessarily say that Shogun has an advantage on the ground though. He has 1 submission win vs Randleman. I'm sure his BJJ is awesome but he doesn't often get put on his back during fights. Also a lot of his fights he won in Japan were vs smaller guys and also soccer kicks and stomps were allowed, which he used A LOT.

That being said, there is no doubt Shogun is a stud in the LHW division. I'm shocked that Bones opened up as a favorite on the betting line. A lot of people get into the hype b/c of a recent win (like GSP or A.Silva as P4P greatest, it's whoever fought last and if freshest in people's minds).

If I had to put down money, I'd put it on Shogun....in fact seeing how I can get good odds on it, I just might do that.

 

[Duder1no]

Event: UFC 128: "Shogun vs. Jones"
Date: Sat., March 19, 2011, at 10 p.m. ET on pay-per-view (PPV)
Location: Prudential Center in Newark, New Jersey

Main Event:

205 lbs.: Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (19-4) vs. Jon Jones (12-1)

Main Card (Televised):

135 lbs.: Urijah Faber (24-4) vs. Eddie Wineland (18-6-1)
155 lbs.: Jim Miller (19-2) vs. Kamal Shalorus (7-0-2)
265 lbs.: Brendan Schaub (7-1) vs. Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic (27-8-2)
155 lbs.: Yoshihiro Akiyama (13-3) vs. Nate Marquardt (30-10-2)

Undercard (May not be broadcast):

155 lbs.: Kurt Pellegrino (16-5) vs. Gleison Tibau (21-7)
170 lbs.: Ricardo Almeida (13-4) vs. Mike Pyle (20-7-1)
155 lbs.: Anthony Njokuani (13-4) vs. Edson Barboza Jr. (7-0)
205 lbs.: Luiz Cane (10-3) vs. Karlos Vemola (8-1)
135 lbs.: Joseph Benavidez (13-2) vs. Ian Loveland (14-7)
145 lbs.: Raphael Assuncao (16-3) vs. Manny Gamburyan (11-5)
185 lbs.: Nick Catone (8-2) vs. Dan Miller (13-4)

All fights officially confirmed by UFC.com

 

[TheNinja]

Come on Cro Cop....I still believe....no, I don't really believe anymore, but I really want to

I don't know the odd on Benavidez, but that seems like a lock to me.
Also good to see Luiz Cane back.

 

[RPD]

CC is too gun shy now, its really sad.

 

[QueBert]

Jones beat Shogun
Jones then beats Page (sad to say that...)
then Page beats Shogun

I want to see Page get a rematch against Shogun.

Bader was considered a contender before Jones, he's still one of the better LHW UFC has. But Jones made him look like an amateur.

 

[Duder1no]

I want to see Page get a rematch against Shogun.

I would love to see another Muay Thai clinic by Shogun over Rampage again

 

[QueBert]

I would love to see another Muay Thai clinic by Shogun over Rampage again

Not gonna happen, he lost the 1st because of broken ribs, Page would be motivated in a rematch like he was against Wanderli, and we all know how their 3rd fight went. All it takes is motivation and Page would smash anybody. And now he's back with Team Oyama, there's a good chance we'll see the Page of old in the UFC.

 

[Duder1no]

Not gonna happen, he lost the 1st because of broken ribs, Page would be motivated in a rematch like he was against Wanderli, and we all know how their 3rd fight went. All it takes is motivation and Page would smash anybody. And now he's back with Team Oyama, there's a good chance we'll see the Page of old in the UFC.

yeah couple that with Shogun not training with Chute Boxe Academy anymore and Rampage actually has a good change

it would be one hell of a fight tho

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Not gonna happen, he lost the 1st because of broken ribs, Page would be motivated in a rematch like he was against Wanderli, and we all know how their 3rd fight went. All it takes is motivation and Page would smash anybody. And now he's back with Team Oyama, there's a good chance we'll see the Page of old in the UFC.

Wut? His ribs were broken cause of a flying knee by Shogun.

 

[QueBert]

Wut? His ribs were broken cause of a flying knee by Shogun.

And that wouldn't happen again, how many fights has this ever happened in MMA? Page lost, but the injury was a fluke. I don't know if he would have won if his ribs hadn't broken. But Quinton has never been dominated outside of that fight. Even when he lost to Wand 2x the fights were very competitive until the end. And Wand had to throw everything but the kitchen sink to finish him.

He's the most durable fighter there is and has the best chin I've ever seen.

 

[TheNinja]

And that wouldn't happen again, how many fights has this ever happened in MMA? Page lost, but the injury was a fluke. I don't know if he would have won if his ribs hadn't broken. But Quinton has never been dominated outside of that fight. Even when he lost to Wand 2x the fights were very competitive until the end. And Wand had to throw everything but the kitchen sink to finish him.

He's the most durable fighter there is and has the best chin I've ever seen.

No doubt that Rampage is a great fighter. His problem has always been lack of focus and discipline. He gets fat and lazy between fights especially if he's sitting good with money. If he had the work ethic of someone like GSP, he'd be LHW champ for a long time imo...sadly he does not. I think Shogun would beat Rampage.

 

[RPD]

But he's got the personality that makes him such a fan favorite. I know he's my favorite fighter. Now he's fighting Matt Hamill... I'm pretty sure he's going to be offending some deaf people with some remark... That'll i'll still laugh at.