UFC 128: Shogun vs Jon Jones
- Thread starter Woosta
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- Mar 23, 2008
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http://www.bestfightodds.com/
So.. Jon Jones is a .................. favorite against... Shogun
I'm putting down $500 on Shogun.
This is disgusting; people who had no fucking clue who Bones Jones was until maybe his last fight or the fight prior have completely jumped on the bandwagon, much the same as the people jumping on Shogun's bandwagon after he KTFO'd Machida; much the same as the people jumping on Machida's bandwagon after he KTFO'd Rashad...
Shogun has the edge in:
- experience; he's already faced the who's who of LHWs and destroyed them
- gameplans; his team comes up with incredible gameplans such as both fights with Machida
- bjj/ground; sick sick sweeps and submissions.. he has probably the best BJJ at LHW ( I consider it to be > Lil Nog's )
- brawling/striking on the inside; shogun has mastered the art of brawling on the inside
- granite chin; the only LHW that has knocked him down was Lil Nog
What Jon Jones has been doing to the lower echelon of LHWs, Shogun has been doing to the upper echelon of LHWs since he was 23 ( he should be 28/29 now ).
Jon Jones has the edge in:
- elite level wrestling; embarassed Bader who's an amazing wrestler in his own right
- reach; 84 inch reach is insane considering the only person close to that was Tim Sylvia with 81 inch
- creative striking; you never know what this kid will try and he usually executes crazy, insane shit that actually works
- athleticism and a youthful body; both guys are gifted athletes but Shogun's had a history of knee problems and Jones is very early into his career where his body is pretty much in its prime
Jon Jones is larger but lankier which means he has skinnier legs and those are open to be leg kicked the crap out of by Shogun, one of the best leg kickers in the business. Unless Jones really emphasizes his training on checking kicks or countering Shogun's leg kick in some fashion; evading it somehow or countering using his huge reach advantage, it'll be a night of leg kicking which will have a huge impact on his striking or wrestling in the later rounds. I expect Jon Jones to be fully aware of this and work out a gameplan countering the leg kicks.
Shogun needs to work on his TDD and spar with someone with a very long reach. He has faced Overeem and Snake who have a huge reach and defeated both so he is very capable of dealing with the reach. He was outstruck by Overeem though, but once he got Reem to the ground he just dominated and GNPed him; I expect Shogun to try to do the same to Jones. I don't think I've seen Bones on his back yet but it'll be interesting to see how he'll be in that position. Shogun needs to also work on getting out of the elbow pound Jones does when he puts guys down to the ground; deadliest elbows in MMA.
This fight will definitely be one of those dream matchups. Jon Jones in a few years once he masters everything will be an absolute monster, I don't think he's ready for Shogun yet but he's very capable of beating him; moreso than anyone else at LHW.
To me Shogun is already the LHW GOAT, despite not defending his title he has the absolute best resume of wins at LHW. Wanderlei and Chuck did not face better opponents throughout their career, Shogun to me has already surpassed them. If Shogun can pull off a win, he'll further cement himself in the eyes of the doubters.
If Jon Jones manages to pull the huge, huge upset he's definitely on course to be the LHW GOAT. Him winning the LHW belt at 23 would be *almost* equal to Shogun beating Arona, Rampage, Lil Nog and Overeem in the course of 5-6 months to win the GP in 05.
So.. Jon Jones is a .................. favorite against... Shogun
I'm putting down $500 on Shogun.
This is disgusting; people who had no fucking clue who Bones Jones was until maybe his last fight or the fight prior have completely jumped on the bandwagon, much the same as the people jumping on Shogun's bandwagon after he KTFO'd Machida; much the same as the people jumping on Machida's bandwagon after he KTFO'd Rashad...
Shogun has the edge in:
- experience; he's already faced the who's who of LHWs and destroyed them
- gameplans; his team comes up with incredible gameplans such as both fights with Machida
- bjj/ground; sick sick sweeps and submissions.. he has probably the best BJJ at LHW ( I consider it to be > Lil Nog's )
- brawling/striking on the inside; shogun has mastered the art of brawling on the inside
- granite chin; the only LHW that has knocked him down was Lil Nog
What Jon Jones has been doing to the lower echelon of LHWs, Shogun has been doing to the upper echelon of LHWs since he was 23 ( he should be 28/29 now ).
Jon Jones has the edge in:
- elite level wrestling; embarassed Bader who's an amazing wrestler in his own right
- reach; 84 inch reach is insane considering the only person close to that was Tim Sylvia with 81 inch
- creative striking; you never know what this kid will try and he usually executes crazy, insane shit that actually works
- athleticism and a youthful body; both guys are gifted athletes but Shogun's had a history of knee problems and Jones is very early into his career where his body is pretty much in its prime
Jon Jones is larger but lankier which means he has skinnier legs and those are open to be leg kicked the crap out of by Shogun, one of the best leg kickers in the business. Unless Jones really emphasizes his training on checking kicks or countering Shogun's leg kick in some fashion; evading it somehow or countering using his huge reach advantage, it'll be a night of leg kicking which will have a huge impact on his striking or wrestling in the later rounds. I expect Jon Jones to be fully aware of this and work out a gameplan countering the leg kicks.
Shogun needs to work on his TDD and spar with someone with a very long reach. He has faced Overeem and Snake who have a huge reach and defeated both so he is very capable of dealing with the reach. He was outstruck by Overeem though, but once he got Reem to the ground he just dominated and GNPed him; I expect Shogun to try to do the same to Jones. I don't think I've seen Bones on his back yet but it'll be interesting to see how he'll be in that position. Shogun needs to also work on getting out of the elbow pound Jones does when he puts guys down to the ground; deadliest elbows in MMA.
This fight will definitely be one of those dream matchups. Jon Jones in a few years once he masters everything will be an absolute monster, I don't think he's ready for Shogun yet but he's very capable of beating him; moreso than anyone else at LHW.
To me Shogun is already the LHW GOAT, despite not defending his title he has the absolute best resume of wins at LHW. Wanderlei and Chuck did not face better opponents throughout their career, Shogun to me has already surpassed them. If Shogun can pull off a win, he'll further cement himself in the eyes of the doubters.
If Jon Jones manages to pull the huge, huge upset he's definitely on course to be the LHW GOAT. Him winning the LHW belt at 23 would be *almost* equal to Shogun beating Arona, Rampage, Lil Nog and Overeem in the course of 5-6 months to win the GP in 05.
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waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
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no way would i put anything on this fight. its to close to call. I do give the edge to shogun. Saying that i won't be suprised if Jones wins it.
to me its to close (at least right now) to say. but i will make a for sure prediction when i see them fightday.
to me its to close (at least right now) to say. but i will make a for sure prediction when i see them fightday.
OILFIELDTRASH
Lifer
- May 13, 2009
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- Mar 23, 2008
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Uh? He still is one of the best strikers in MMA. Losing to Anderson Silva doesn't take that away.
Overeem, Fedor, Belfort, prime CC, Anderson Silva, Melvin Manhoef, Frankie Edgar, BJ Penn, Shogun, JDS, Jose Aldo and I'm forgetting a few... would be the upper echelon of strikers in MMA.
We were talking about this yesterday--Jones is amazing, but he may not yet have enough experience to hang with Shogun. His natural talent and ability are pretty damn staggering, though, so I wouldn't put a win past him.
- Mar 23, 2008
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Dr. Detroit
Diamond Member
- Sep 25, 2004
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Bones Jones is too unpredictable of a fighter as he usally goes all out in the frist round -
he could easily be caught with a one punch KO or destroy the oher guy. I've been watching Bones Jones decimate the LHW ranks since him & Bonnar squared off and his reach is a huge advantage. Bones Jones needs to be tested against a superior wrestler & BJJ guy who has the ability to take him down. Against a striker hes just too good.
he could easily be caught with a one punch KO or destroy the oher guy. I've been watching Bones Jones decimate the LHW ranks since him & Bonnar squared off and his reach is a huge advantage. Bones Jones needs to be tested against a superior wrestler & BJJ guy who has the ability to take him down. Against a striker hes just too good.
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,145
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a superior wrestler? he dominated 2 top tier wrestlers. hell he threw them around like they were nothing.
Crazee
Elite Member
- Nov 20, 2001
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As much as it may pain me, I have to agree with Woosta on this one. Jones has not faced anyone the caliber of Shogun yet.
He holds wins over Overeem (twice), Rampage (looked like he killed him), Little Nog, Mark Coleman, Kevin Randleman, Chuck Liddell, and of course his beating of Machida. He lost to Renato Sobral in only his 5th MMA fight, one loss to Mark Coleman where he dislocated his elbow and couldn't continue, another to Forrest Griffin where his cardio was not up to par because he had injured his knee in training, and a controversial decision to Machida that most observers thought he won.
Jones has never faced anyone as dangerous on the ground as Shogun. His long reach is a big advantage striking, however could be bad for him if they end up on the ground. His legs are thin (he doesn't have any calves) and as mentioned above makes him susceptible to leg kicks. That said, Jones is a special athlete and very talented. He is capable of winning but I think Shogun will come out on top.
He holds wins over Overeem (twice), Rampage (looked like he killed him), Little Nog, Mark Coleman, Kevin Randleman, Chuck Liddell, and of course his beating of Machida. He lost to Renato Sobral in only his 5th MMA fight, one loss to Mark Coleman where he dislocated his elbow and couldn't continue, another to Forrest Griffin where his cardio was not up to par because he had injured his knee in training, and a controversial decision to Machida that most observers thought he won.
Jones has never faced anyone as dangerous on the ground as Shogun. His long reach is a big advantage striking, however could be bad for him if they end up on the ground. His legs are thin (he doesn't have any calves) and as mentioned above makes him susceptible to leg kicks. That said, Jones is a special athlete and very talented. He is capable of winning but I think Shogun will come out on top.
RPD
Diamond Member
- Jul 22, 2009
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I sadly agree with Woosta's assessment, but I'll add the pressure is on Rua. He's the one with the experience and now has less then normal amount of time to prep for JJ.
Rua's camp was prep'in for Evans, now JJ. Evans camp was using JJ to mimic Rua in Evans prep. So after mimicking his style he gets to fight him. Plus there's the potential for ring rust. I just hope the Shogun that shows up isn't the one that did for Forrest or Coleman.
Rua's camp was prep'in for Evans, now JJ. Evans camp was using JJ to mimic Rua in Evans prep. So after mimicking his style he gets to fight him. Plus there's the potential for ring rust. I just hope the Shogun that shows up isn't the one that did for Forrest or Coleman.
I can't wait for this fight. Huge fan of both guys, not sure who would win it. Jones is a monster, but Shogun is Shogun. I'm not going to bet on this fight because I don't know which one my heart is picking and which one my head is picking. I'd stay away from a 500 dollar bet on this one though Woosta.
Lol yeah I don't get that comment. He has fought FIVE good/decent wrestlers rather recently and made them all look amateurish.
- Mar 23, 2008
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No. Shogun is the underdog despite being the champion and he's going to win this one.
People need to realize how great Shogun is. He is the original Jon Jones except he had done more at Jon Jones age.
There is a SLIGHT, SLIGHT chance this could be a GSP ( JJ ) vs Matt Hughes ( Shogun ) scenario with Shogun winning the first and Jones taking the second and becoming the greatest LHW, but Shogun is just too great and I have too much faith in Shogun.
As this person put it... http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/2/6/1978427/worth-a-thousand-words
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erikistired
Diamond Member
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Because I made a spoiler thread last time and people were complaining since they were supposedly huge fans of MMA but hadn't seen the event yet.
CPA
Elite Member
- Nov 19, 2001
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Who said I don't have a clue about him? Nice assumption, butthead. I have been watching him since his fifth match (pre-UFC). I have been hyping him for some time, and it doesn't hurt that both of his brothers played/currently play on the Syracuse Orange football team, which I'm a big fan of.
CPA
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Terrible match up for Rua right now. You just come back from a long layoff and surgery, to fight a guy that is red hot, been active, and can take down guys that do not get taken down.
Furthermore, your biggest beloved patriot in the armor, is that your take down defense is suspect. And the last time you had a roll in the cage, was after similar circumstances, against a guy Bones would destroy, and you ended up giving up your back and getting finished.
This is Bones' fight to lose or win IMO; it isn't even up to Rua.
Furthermore, your biggest beloved patriot in the armor, is that your take down defense is suspect. And the last time you had a roll in the cage, was after similar circumstances, against a guy Bones would destroy, and you ended up giving up your back and getting finished.
This is Bones' fight to lose or win IMO; it isn't even up to Rua.
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