Tyson Foods Drops Labor Day For Muslim Holiday Instead

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: JD50


Listen, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you whatever it is that you are trying to argue. If you can't tell the difference between the unbending rules of religion, and the laws made by a Democratic society, then I'm not going to be able to help you here.

Yes, there are a few laws that the majority cannot change, but that does not in any way, shape, or form make a Democratic society like religion. That's like saying that the sky is blue, and a smurf is blue, so a smurf is just like the sky.

I don't argue about religion, so I'm not going down that road with you.

So if the majority argues in favour of religion wouldn't it be democratic to actually listen? It would be the laws made by a democratic society then. And this is not like exact science. Laws are not exact science. Just because you think something is a good law doesn't make it so.

If the majority was in favor of imposing a religion, yes it would be democractic. If you take Schmitt's view on democracy, there is actually no inherent debate - you just have yes or no votes and go with the majority. If you take his idea of parliamentarism, there is discussion and debate which should ultimately lead to the best course of action. But we're not just a democracy/parliament.

In the end, we're not just a democracy - we're a liberal democracy - another words, we don't crush the minority's basic rights be imposing the oppressive views of the majority

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: JD50


Listen, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you whatever it is that you are trying to argue. If you can't tell the difference between the unbending rules of religion, and the laws made by a Democratic society, then I'm not going to be able to help you here.

Yes, there are a few laws that the majority cannot change, but that does not in any way, shape, or form make a Democratic society like religion. That's like saying that the sky is blue, and a smurf is blue, so a smurf is just like the sky.

I don't argue about religion, so I'm not going down that road with you.

So if the majority argues in favour of religion wouldn't it be democratic to actually listen? It would be the laws made by a democratic society then. And this is not like exact science. Laws are not exact science. Just because you think something is a good law doesn't make it so.

Yeah but if we let that happen we'd end up with a messed up country like Pakistan.

:laugh:

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: JD50


Listen, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you whatever it is that you are trying to argue. If you can't tell the difference between the unbending rules of religion, and the laws made by a Democratic society, then I'm not going to be able to help you here.

Yes, there are a few laws that the majority cannot change, but that does not in any way, shape, or form make a Democratic society like religion. That's like saying that the sky is blue, and a smurf is blue, so a smurf is just like the sky.

I don't argue about religion, so I'm not going down that road with you.

So if the majority argues in favour of religion wouldn't it be democratic to actually listen? It would be the laws made by a democratic society then. And this is not like exact science. Laws are not exact science. Just because you think something is a good law doesn't make it so.

That's not how (our) democracy works. The US constitution was specifically designed to prevent tyranny of the majority, so there should be and there are limits on what the people can do, no matter how large of a majority they have. That protects minority opinions, because history has shown that people, once in the majority, tend to want to stamp out anyone who disagrees with them. The majority is arguing in favor of religion right now, only it's Christianity rather than Islam, but the principle is the same...and it's EXACTLY the same for folks like me who don't subscribe to either religion.

The problem with unlimited democracy is that it lends itself to mob rule, which is not all that desirable.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: JD50


Listen, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you whatever it is that you are trying to argue. If you can't tell the difference between the unbending rules of religion, and the laws made by a Democratic society, then I'm not going to be able to help you here.

Yes, there are a few laws that the majority cannot change, but that does not in any way, shape, or form make a Democratic society like religion. That's like saying that the sky is blue, and a smurf is blue, so a smurf is just like the sky.

I don't argue about religion, so I'm not going down that road with you.

So if the majority argues in favour of religion wouldn't it be democratic to actually listen? It would be the laws made by a democratic society then. And this is not like exact science. Laws are not exact science. Just because you think something is a good law doesn't make it so.

Like I said, "Yes, there are a few laws that the majority cannot change". One of them is not being allowed to murder someone, another is not being allowed to force your religion on other people.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
So if the majority argues in favour of religion wouldn't it be democratic to actually listen? It would be the laws made by a democratic society then. And this is not like exact science. Laws are not exact science. Just because you think something is a good law doesn't make it so.

What if the people changed their minds about favoring that particular religion later?

A secular govt is one that is neutral towards religion. It does not favor or discourage. The reason for this in America is that there is not any one religion, but thousands, none of which make up a majority of the people. So which religion could be favored by any majority?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: JD50


Listen, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you whatever it is that you are trying to argue. If you can't tell the difference between the unbending rules of religion, and the laws made by a Democratic society, then I'm not going to be able to help you here.

Yes, there are a few laws that the majority cannot change, but that does not in any way, shape, or form make a Democratic society like religion. That's like saying that the sky is blue, and a smurf is blue, so a smurf is just like the sky.

I don't argue about religion, so I'm not going down that road with you.

So if the majority argues in favour of religion wouldn't it be democratic to actually listen? It would be the laws made by a democratic society then. And this is not like exact science. Laws are not exact science. Just because you think something is a good law doesn't make it so.

Like I said, "Yes, there are a few laws that the majority cannot change". One of them is not being allowed to murder someone, another is not being allowed to force your religion on other people.

So then you are following a set of laws that are predefined by men and can not be changed. Sounds like worse than religion to me.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
So if the majority argues in favour of religion wouldn't it be democratic to actually listen? It would be the laws made by a democratic society then. And this is not like exact science. Laws are not exact science. Just because you think something is a good law doesn't make it so.

What if the people changed their minds about favoring that particular religion later?

A secular govt is one that is neutral towards religion. It does not favor or discourage. The reason for this in America is that there is not any one religion, but thousands, none of which make up a majority of the people. So which religion could be favored by any majority?

I'm just talking of a hypothetical situation. Like in Turkey for example they've been banning scarves from public places even thought the majority would support it. But I guess the main doctrinal difference between the west and Islam is that Islam believes the religion is the state inside which faith(s) can survive. Too bad the state of Islam has only been in name for most of its 1400 year history.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: JD50


Listen, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you whatever it is that you are trying to argue. If you can't tell the difference between the unbending rules of religion, and the laws made by a Democratic society, then I'm not going to be able to help you here.

Yes, there are a few laws that the majority cannot change, but that does not in any way, shape, or form make a Democratic society like religion. That's like saying that the sky is blue, and a smurf is blue, so a smurf is just like the sky.

I don't argue about religion, so I'm not going down that road with you.

So if the majority argues in favour of religion wouldn't it be democratic to actually listen? It would be the laws made by a democratic society then. And this is not like exact science. Laws are not exact science. Just because you think something is a good law doesn't make it so.

Like I said, "Yes, there are a few laws that the majority cannot change". One of them is not being allowed to murder someone, another is not being allowed to force your religion on other people.

So then you are following a set of laws that are predefined by men and can not be changed. Sounds like worse than religion to me.

Yea, murder being illegal and having freedom from religion is absolutely horrible. I don't know how we get by.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
So then you are following a set of laws that are predefined by men and can not be changed. Sounds like worse than religion to me.

*sigh*

And religious laws are not a set of laws that are predefined by men and cannot be changed? How could the rule of law possibly be worse than a religion?

If you are going to insist on comparing secular democracy and the rule of law with religion, then let me make my own comparison. Yes, the rule of law and religious laws do have some things in common, like unchangeable laws against specific forms of violence, etc. But where they differ is that secular govts do not tell people what they have to believe. There is no crime for thinking and believing differently, or even for speaking out your differing beliefs. We got rid of all the countless UNNECESSARY laws that religious govts have, like being forced to give our money to some shaman who claims to speak for God, or in being forced to listen to that shaman or to pray to his gods. There's no law that says I have to go to some church on Sunday, and I can eat all the pork I want to. And so forth. In other words, we scrapped all the bullshit, and kept only that govt which is necessary.
So how that is worse than religion to you.... well, I guess you just like authority telling you what to believe and how to think then.

 

[Butterbean]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
This isn't an issue. Grow up and stop being a racist.

Muslim isn't a race...sheesh kids today

 

[babylon5]

LoL

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Socio

What holiday will be next to be taken away and replaced to accommodate an immigrant's?

You are a racist. Unless you are a native American you are all immigrants.

And you're a dumbass. I was born in America, I'm just as native to this country as a "native American". And if you wanna be an idiot about it, "native Americans" are also immigrants, their ancestors immigrated here from Eurasia.

Disclaimer - I am not defending socio, because I'm pretty sure he is a racist, I'm just pointing out how stupid the "OMG you're all immigrants" argument is.

So that's even a more bizarre argument from Socio. In 20 years the "immigrants" sons and daughters will probably have the same culture and thoughts as their parents. Would "islamization" then be justified?

Of course not.

What if the majority wants it? Does democracy not work then?

I think that you fail to realize that the majority should never be allowed to deny the minority of basic universal rights. It seems that you live in a country where the majority is allowed to persecute the minority and that such activity is justified because the mobs wish it so.

 

[Butterbean]

Originally posted by: Zorba

Tyson company spokeswoman Libby Lawson said by phone that, "This isn't a religious accommodation, this is a contractual agreement. The majority asked for it."

If you don't like majority rule don't be in a Union. The majority of the people in the union wanted a different holiday, Tyson didn't want to have a strike or other labor disruptions so they said why not.

Labor Day is a federal holiday. Little groups should not be able to have federal holidays dropped for their own little esoteric holidays. They should go to a country that supports their little customs if they dont like Labor Day. US has become a country of weenies who collapse to any little group but rationalize like they are more virtuous instead of having no guts. "Multiculturalism" is a one way street and a political trojan horse that only works on the suggestible (which many libs are since they are externalixed and think with their emotions).

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: techs
I suppose you also are against the Christianization of America? Seems most union contracts call for a Christmas day holiday.
In NYC many contracts call for one or more Jewish holidays off. Are you complaining about that?
Amazing how the hate is flowing in America. One very small company changes a holiday to accomadate the majority of its workers and somehow its the end of Western Civilization.

The PC crowd has changed it so Christmas is no longer viewed as a ?Christian? holiday, and if NYC has contracts that call for one or more Jewish holidays off, that would just as wrong and should be abolished.



Where are we going to draw the line and when?

This is just another example of where it looks like we are not, we are just going to jump when they say jump, our ways be damn, what matter most is accommodating theirs.

Over react a little? You know why the majority of the workers there are Somali? Because working in a Chicken Processing Plant is so disgusting the even Hillbillies from Tennessee refuse to work there. I bet most of those that aren't Somali that do work there are in Supervisory , Warehousing, Administration or Shipping positions. And you have the audacity to complain because they voted themselves a holiday, one that doesn't even affect a Christian Holiday. And why should you even care, you're no Christian, at least not one that the real Jesus would recognize.

Last I checked there are no more ?Christian" holidays so why in the hell should anyone else get a paid designated religious holiday?

The fact that we eliminate Christian religious holidays while granting others theirs is asinine.

If they come to America to live and work the first thing that needs to be done is let them no they are going to have to live like an American, and their religion is not superior to anyone else, their couture is not superior to anyone else nor do they get special privileges because of it.

The last thing you want to do is accommodate them because it will never stop until you have accommodated our country into their country.

What is happening in this plant is really just typical Muslim MO; conquer from within, as soon as they get majority power they start changing things to their ways and we roll over like pansies and allow it;

The union also reported "two prayer rooms have been created to allow Muslim workers to pray twice a day and return to work without leaving the plant."

Next thing you know they will get majority in the plants town, elect a Muslim Mayor etc? erect mosques and Islamic schools, ban pork products from stores and lot of other little changes so they never have to assimilate to America, instead convert everything they can to their old countries way.

 

[Vic]

Where did "we" grant others their religious holidays?

This is a single private company seeking to cater to its workforce. And they have every right to do so. Or not if they choose.

This is not govt. This is not "we."

Quit spreading your stupid FUD, socio.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Nebor
They don't see this as democracy at work, or tolerance. They see this as weakness, and a lack of caring about our own holidays, traditions and culture.

Link to the poll backing up your claim? Or are you just being a loudmouth making up paranoid nonsense, not wanting to have any respect for other people?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
This is good information to have. I can now mark Tyson products off my grocery list from now on.

Yes, Tyson should tell their Muslim workers they are second class people who do not deserve the right to have any say in majority decisions. You are a jerk, IMO.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Easter and Christmas got stale and over commercialized so time for new holidays anyway.

What kind of presents do you get for Eid al-Fitr?

You get $$$

 

[Aimster]

Anyone who thinks this is a big deal is an idiot.
The majority of the plant is Muslim. The majority won.

Don't like it? go get another job.

Or come on ATOT P&N and nag and cry because Muslims got their holiday off from work.

MorAns

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: shinerburke
This is good information to have. I can now mark Tyson products off my grocery list from now on.

I will as well. I wouldn't expect less of Muslims to try and get this through, but it's the Tyson management that agreed to it.

This is good information to have. I can now mark CPA off my list of right-wingers who might be better than idiotic bigotry.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Easter and Christmas got stale and over commercialized so time for new holidays anyway.

What kind of presents do you get for Eid al-Fitr?

You get $$$

Really, how much???

 

[dawp]

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: techs
I suppose you also are against the Christianization of America? Seems most union contracts call for a Christmas day holiday.
In NYC many contracts call for one or more Jewish holidays off. Are you complaining about that?
Amazing how the hate is flowing in America. One very small company changes a holiday to accomadate the majority of its workers and somehow its the end of Western Civilization.

The PC crowd has changed it so Christmas is no longer viewed as a ?Christian? holiday, and if NYC has contracts that call for one or more Jewish holidays off, that would just as wrong and should be abolished.



Where are we going to draw the line and when?

This is just another example of where it looks like we are not, we are just going to jump when they say jump, our ways be damn, what matter most is accommodating theirs.

Over react a little? You know why the majority of the workers there are Somali? Because working in a Chicken Processing Plant is so disgusting the even Hillbillies from Tennessee refuse to work there. I bet most of those that aren't Somali that do work there are in Supervisory , Warehousing, Administration or Shipping positions. And you have the audacity to complain because they voted themselves a holiday, one that doesn't even affect a Christian Holiday. And why should you even care, you're no Christian, at least not one that the real Jesus would recognize.

Last I checked there are no more ?Christian" holidays so why in the hell should anyone else get a paid designated religious holiday?

The fact that we eliminate Christian religious holidays while granting others theirs is asinine.

If they come to America to live and work the first thing that needs to be done is let them no they are going to have to live like an American, and their religion is not superior to anyone else, their couture is not superior to anyone else nor do they get special privileges because of it.

The last thing you want to do is accommodate them because it will never stop until you have accommodated our country into their country.

What is happening in this plant is really just typical Muslim MO; conquer from within, as soon as they get majority power they start changing things to their ways and we roll over like pansies and allow it;

The union also reported "two prayer rooms have been created to allow Muslim workers to pray twice a day and return to work without leaving the plant."

Next thing you know they will get majority in the plants town, elect a Muslim Mayor etc? erect mosques and Islamic schools, ban pork products from stores and lot of other little changes so they never have to assimilate to America, instead convert everything they can to their old countries way.

last time i checked, Christmas and Easter are still religious holidays that are recognized by the feds, thou Easter always lands on a Sunday but good friday doesn't. just try to get USPS delivered on Christmas without paying additional fees. normal mail does not run on Christmas.

 

[dawp]

Originally posted by: Butterbean

Originally posted by: Zorba

Tyson company spokeswoman Libby Lawson said by phone that, "This isn't a religious accommodation, this is a contractual agreement. The majority asked for it."

If you don't like majority rule don't be in a Union. The majority of the people in the union wanted a different holiday, Tyson didn't want to have a strike or other labor disruptions so they said why not.

Labor Day is a federal holiday. Little groups should not be able to have federal holidays dropped for their own little esoteric holidays. They should go to a country that supports their little customs if they dont like Labor Day. US has become a country of weenies who collapse to any little group but rationalize like they are more virtuous instead of having no guts. "Multiculturalism" is a one way street and a political trojan horse that only works on the suggestible (which many libs are since they are externalixed and think with their emotions).

Companies do not have to give you holidays off, federal or not. Especially companies that run 24/7.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Socio

What holiday will be next to be taken away and replaced to accommodate an immigrant's?

You are a racist. Unless you are a native American you are all immigrants.

How is it racist?

Muslim is a religion and not a race.

Not surprisingly, many in here who would have a conniption fit were some traditional secular holiday replaced with a Christian one are OK with this.

I don't think it's a good idea. Labor Day has been celebrated over 100 yrs and is a traditional American Holiday. There are many traditions and communal events that weekend. We've all seen of the problems resulting from non-assimilation, so this IMO is a bad idea as it does absolutely nothing towards that end. In fact, quite the opposite, the Muslim workers should be out with the non-Muslims joining in community festivities.

I think it a likely hardship on the non-Muslim employees as well. The spouse and kids eiither get to sit home without the working parent, or go to festivities without them. Not cool at all. :frown:

Fern

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Butterbean

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
This isn't an issue. Grow up and stop being a bigot.

Muslim isn't a race...sheesh kids today

Fixed his quote.