Two percent of high school students identify as transgender, CDC report finds

[SlowSpyder]

You're putting a hell of a lot of effort into being disingenuous. You might want to spend some time thinking about why you do that at some point.

No, he does NOT have "hard science." It is a brain scan that shows an interesting piece of information, nothing more. Having a third copy of chromosome 21 causes Trisomy 21. That is an example of hard science. If I truly believe I'm a woman that doesn't make it so any more than if I truly believed in a particular version of god or truly believed I'm a giraffe.

 

[MajinCry]

No, he does NOT have "hard science." It is a brain scan that shows an interesting piece of information, nothing more. Having a third copy of chromosome 21 causes Trisomy 21. That is an example of hard science. If I truly believe I'm a woman that doesn't make it so any more than if I truly believed in a particular version of god or truly believed I'm a giraffe.

Yeah the brain scans only showed that the two genders have exactly specific activity that is unique to that gender, and that you see the same activity in transgender individuals which corresponds to their target gender.

But whatever, just reject science and claim to understand it while simultaneously showing you don't even understand basic science.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Yeah the brain scans only showed that the two genders have exactly specific activity that is unique to that gender, and that you see the same activity in transgender individuals which corresponds to their target gender.

But whatever, just reject science and claim to understand it while simultaneously showing you don't even understand basic science.

I'm not ignoring the science, I'm saying it does not mean what you claim it does.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Yeah the brain scans only showed that the two genders have exactly specific activity that is unique to that gender

No. It shows activity specific to that biological sex, not gender. Gender is a social construct.

 

[Atreus21]

If an adult becomes convinced that he's not a human being, but is in fact an alien from Mars, what is society's obligation to him? Do we yield to his delusion and thus take part in it, or do we attempt to restore his sanity by helping him see the truth?

 

[brycejones]

If an adult becomes convinced that he's not a human being, but is in fact an alien from Mars, what is society's obligation to him? Do we yield to his delusion and thus take part in it, or do we attempt to restore his sanity by helping him see the truth?

You marry your toaster.

 

[Atreus21]

You marry your toaster.

Answer the question maybe?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Answer the question maybe?

He did.

 

[ivwshane]

If an adult becomes convinced that he's not a human being, but is in fact an alien from Mars, what is society's obligation to him? Do we yield to his delusion and thus take part in it, or do we attempt to restore his sanity by helping him see the truth?

Probably the same thing we did when colored and non colored people wanted to marry or when gay people wanted to marry, be super concerned because the inevitable was likely to happen, people would start marrying animals.

You are the dumb fuck who would counter reality with absurdity.

 

[Sunburn74]

Probably the same thing we did when colored and non colored people wanted to marry or when gay people wanted to marry, be super concerned because the inevitable was likely to happen, people would start marrying animals.

You are the dumb fuck who would counter reality with absurdity.

Yup. Totally agree.
Why anyone cares about who is marrying what is beyond me. As long as it's consensual it's not my business

 

[brycejones]

Answer the question maybe?

I seriously hope one of your children identifies as trans. Then maybe just maybe you will have to deal with reality instead of the made up bull shit you do now.

It’s obvious you and op are incapable of empathizing and accepting people who have radically different life experiences from your own.

 

[UglyCasanova]

For me at least it’s not that I refuse to accept other people, I just think it’s dangerous to perform medical procedures like this on kids when they’re still in a state of figuring out who they are. If my boy said he’s trans ok so be it, but I won’t let him undergo any medical procedures at all while he’s still under 18 and I’d highly discourage it until into his 20s. He can change his mind at that point if he chooses, or not, but point being he hasn’t fricked up his body so the option is there.

As has been said before by fskimospy, this is just a cosmetic procedure. Not medically necessary at all. So it can wait until they figure themselves out, and I don’t know a single teen that has themselves figured out.

 

[brycejones]

For me at least it’s not that I refuse to accept other people, I just think it’s dangerous to perform medical procedures like this on kids when they’re still in a state of figuring out who they are. If my boy said he’s trans ok so be it, but I won’t let him undergo any medical procedures at all while he’s still under 18 and I’d highly discourage it until into his 20s. He can change his mind at that point if he chooses, or not, but point being he hasn’t fricked up his body so the option is there.

As has been said before by fskimospy, this is just a cosmetic procedure. Not medically necessary at all. So it can wait until they figure themselves out, and I don’t know a single teen that has themselves figured out.

And guess what based on other posts in this thread that is also the medical consensus. So is the concern you originally expressed in this thread now addressed? Are you accepting of non surgical interventions like hormones for teens?

 

[UglyCasanova]

No hormones shouldn’t be given to those under 18 either.

 

[child of wonder]

Probably the same thing we did when colored and non colored people wanted to marry or when gay people wanted to marry, be super concerned because the inevitable was likely to happen, people would start marrying animals.

You are the dumb fuck who would counter reality with absurdity.

You’ve never heard of dragonkin, pixiekin, puppykin, and otherkin? It’s a real thing.

 

[brycejones]

No hormones shouldn’t be given to those under 18 either.

Why? Your original concern was about permanent physical changes treatments to stave off puberty just delay it are not permanent.

 

[Vic]

If an adult becomes convinced that he's not a human being, but is in fact an alien from Mars, what is society's obligation to him? Do we yield to his delusion and thus take part in it, or do we attempt to restore his sanity by helping him see the truth?

Your argument makes a few false assumptions. Who does it harm that someone believes they're from Mars? Why is allowing someone to believe something the same as taking part in that belief? And if the Martian doesn't consent to having their sanity restored, what force would society be required to use to make them see the truth?

So if a 'delusion' is harmless, why then would society have an obligation to take an action that itself is likely to create harm?

 

[UglyCasanova]

Why? Your original concern was about permanent physical changes treatments to stave off puberty just delay it are not permanent.

Because it’s still a very real and serious medical procedure. Just because a scalpel isn’t involved doesn’t mean it’s not a serious thing. Kids aren’t of an age to have themselves figured out, everyone changes as they get older. Changing one’s body via chemicals is just as real as changing it via the knife, they need to wait until they are older to know if that’s truly what they want.

 

[cytg111]

Because it’s still a very real and serious medical procedure. Just because a scalpel isn’t involved doesn’t mean it’s not a serious thing. Kids aren’t of an age to have themselves figured out, everyone changes as they get older. Changing one’s body via chemicals is just as real as changing it via the knife, they need to wait until they are older to know if that’s truly what they want.

I am inclined to agree with you that you shouldnt prop up teenagers with hormones and/or put em under the knife... On the other hand, do we have hard data that tells us how many identified transgenders that "change their mind" come adulthood? Cause if that number is zero, they may as well get on with it. On the other hand, what are the chances that some kid gets "engineered" wrongly into this as a teen and regrets having his pecker cut off later in life?...(that is why we shouldnt do capital punishment, right, cause although convicted, there is a chance its wrong...)
I think I must conclude that I dont know enough on the subject to form a qualified opinion...

 

[UglyCasanova]

I think I must conclude that I dont know enough on the subject to form a qualified opinion...

Agreed, so ere on the side of caution.

 

[PJFrylar]

UC, you still haven't even begun to address the issue of the bullying/suicide rate. You complained about my insults and swearing ... I backed off. I made a serious post, you didn't respond to it. Do you actually want to seriously talk about this or what. Dismissing this as fads is harmful. While you have concerns about trans teens being genuine ... don't you see how much that attitude is hurting them? People are getting bullied to the point that they can't even take it anymore. You just want to dismiss it away as a fad... it's a hard problem and I don't think your stance is particularly helpful. Even if you want to delay treatments, these kids need support ... not judgement.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Detransitioners. Great article that explores the complexities and risks.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/07/when-a-child-says-shes-trans/561749/

Ignoring the diversity of these experiences and focusing only on those who were effectively “born in the wrong body” could cause harm. That is the argument of a small but vocal group of men and women who have transitioned, only to return to their assigned sex. Many of these so-called detransitioners argue that their dysphoria was caused not by a deep-seated mismatch between their gender identity and their body but rather by mental-health problems, trauma, societal misogyny, or some combination of these and other factors. They say they were nudged toward the physical interventions of hormones or surgery by peer pressure or by clinicians who overlooked other potential explanations for their distress.

...
The concerns of the detransitioners are echoed by a number of clinicians who work in this field, most of whom are psychologists and psychiatrists. They very much support so-called affirming care, which entails accepting and exploring a child’s statements about their gender identity in a compassionate manner. But they worry that, in an otherwise laudable effort to get TGNC young people the care they need, some members of their field are ignoring the complexity, and fluidity, of gender-identity development in young people. These colleagues are approving teenagers for hormone therapy, or even top surgery, without fully examining their mental health or the social and family influences that could be shaping their nascent sense of their gender identity.

 

[PJFrylar]

Detransitioners. Great article that explores the complexities and risks.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/07/when-a-child-says-shes-trans/561749/

Ignoring the diversity of these experiences and focusing only on those who were effectively “born in the wrong body” could cause harm. That is the argument of a small but vocal group of men and women who have transitioned, only to return to their assigned sex. Many of these so-called detransitioners argue that their dysphoria was caused not by a deep-seated mismatch between their gender identity and their body but rather by mental-health problems, trauma, societal misogyny, or some combination of these and other factors. They say they were nudged toward the physical interventions of hormones or surgery by peer pressure or by clinicians who overlooked other potential explanations for their distress.

...
The concerns of the detransitioners are echoed by a number of clinicians who work in this field, most of whom are psychologists and psychiatrists. They very much support so-called affirming care, which entails accepting and exploring a child’s statements about their gender identity in a compassionate manner. But they worry that, in an otherwise laudable effort to get TGNC young people the care they need, some members of their field are ignoring the complexity, and fluidity, of gender-identity development in young people. These colleagues are approving teenagers for hormone therapy, or even top surgery, without fully examining their mental health or the social and family influences that could be shaping their nascent sense of their gender identity.

You again continue to ignore the societal pressures that might make them uncomfortable in their decision. Yeah we have a long way to go in treating mental illness, but to dismiss trans people as a fad ... that's just not helpful dude.

 

[UglyCasanova]

UC, you still haven't even begun to address the issue of the bullying/suicide rate. You complained about my insults and swearing ... I backed off. I made a serious post, you didn't respond to it. Do you actually want to seriously talk about this or what. Dismissing this as fads is harmful. While you have concerns about trans teens being genuine ... don't you see how much that attitude is hurting them? People are getting bullied to the point that they can't even take it anymore. You just want to dismiss it away as a fad... it's a hard problem and I don't think your stance is particularly helpful. Even if you want to delay treatments, these kids need support ... not judgement.

Totally agree they need support, but for many it’s that hey have a range of other mental issues that need to be addressed and latch onto the idea of transgenderism from what they see on the internet but it might not be the right answer. Bullying is terrible (I was relentlessly in jr high to the point I feared going to school every day) and needs to be absolutely stamped out, but hormones and surgery aren’t the answer to that. Help these kids with support not hormones. If after they reach their 20s and they’ve had time to truly figure themselves out then go for it, but teenagers are too emotionally dynamic and fraught to make such a decision. My apologies if I didn’t answer you earlier, I had started to ignore your posts due to the foul language.

 

[PJFrylar]

Totally agree they need support, but for many it’s that hey have a range of other mental issues that need to be addressed and latch onto the idea of transgenderism from what they see on the internet but it might not be the right answer. Bullying is terrible (I was relentlessly in jr high to the point I feared going to school every day) and needs to be absolutely stamped out, but hormones and surgery aren’t the answer to that. Help these kids with support not hormones. If after they reach their 20s and they’ve had time to truly figure themselves out then go for it, but teenagers are too emotionally dynamic and fraught to make such a decision. My apologies if I didn’t answer you earlier, I had started to ignore your posts due to the foul language.

Don't you think the 35% bullying rate and 35% suicide rate is in anyway significant? I've said multiple times I don't think steering small children in such ways is a good idea. But Jesus Fucking Christ dude, we need to lay off the stigma. Until we do that we can't even begin to quantify the situation? I agree putting it off until people figure themselves out is generally good, but we can't just bully people into the ground either. I think dismissing it as a fad is not helpful.