Article TSMC to Build Advanced Semiconductor Facility in Arizona

[uzzi38]

WSJ News Exclusive | Taiwan Firm to Build Chip Factory in U.S.

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing, the world’s largest contract manufacturer of silicon chips, said it would spend $12 billion to build a chip factory in Arizona, as U.S. concerns grow about dependence on Asia for the technology.

www.wsj.com

Sorry about that, just posted the article without really thinking much at the time.

Anyway, this is a really drastic shift even to what TSMC were saying just days ago. Seems like the main node in question is N5 operational by the end of 2023, which is late for sure, but even still, a massive move. Especially considering they're starting off in Arizona, no doubt to they could potentially grab a hold over some workforce from a certain someone else in the area.

One more thing that makes this a huge move is TSMC's own wording on the node in question. They believe N5 is going to be one of their most long-lasting and popular nodes simply because the cost to go even smaller is so large most companies won't even try to develop silicon on a smaller node. Getting N5 operational and producing it there in a fab in the US is a move with rather long term effects.

 

[moinmoin]

Eh? I thought Taiwan was ROC?

I think that's what he means. Normalizing the US' relation with ROC/Taiwan, recognizing it as a state with full diplomatic exchange and participation as full member in all international organization.

Why are there so many datacenters in Iceland?

Ice desert.

 

[maddie]

That's easy, cheap geothermal power.

The case for Iceland is valid but heat sink temps do matter a lot.

 

[DrMrLordX]

That's easy, cheap geothermal power.

Actually . . .

The case for Iceland is valid but heat sink temps do matter a lot.

Exactly. The consistently low ambients make dumping heat that much easier.

 

[Hitman928]

II am assuming this will be built in the Phoenix area. Which is 150 miles from the Colorado river. Now they have built tributaries that carries the water into the city. But the big issue they have is the Colorado has not been able to keep up with demand. Lake Mead is getting dangerously close to not providing enough pressure to run the Hoover Dam. And there is legit fear the colorado wont be able to supply enough fresh water for the city within a few years.

Further, I can only assume from my experience brown outs happen in the summer on a regular basis. My old company had their HQ in scottsdale. Brownouts happen around 1-2 times a month in the summer months.

Apparently Data Centers are also a big thing in Phoenix. The reason appears to be very little weather or geological related issues. Which again surprises me due to the heat\brown out situations I experienced. /shrug

These fabs have basically their own substations on site to avoid any possible power fluctuations.

 

[Atreus21]

Come to New Orleans. Water's one thing we got plenty of. Relieve pressure on the levees. Give the Army Corps of Engineers a breather.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Come to New Orleans. Water's one thing we got plenty of. Relieve pressure on the levees. Give the Army Corps of Engineers a breather.

You joke, but someday, we'll need interstate pipelines and overflow reservoirs for that kind of thing. It'll be expensive to build and maintain, but oh it would be brilliant.

 

[chrisjames61]

These fabs have basically their own substations on site to avoid any possible power fluctuations.

Any large industrial site basically has the same thing.

 

[chrisjames61]

Iceland uses renewable for 99% of its energy consumption.

 

[StrangerGuy]

right, but the Devil is in the details, especially when we already have a documented example of what happened when FoxConn showed up in Wisconsin--we can't simply "all agree that this is good" anymore because we know for a fact that this is rarely true.

Yup, after the blatant con job from Foxconn I wouldn't be even remotely surprised if this wouldn't play out similarly.

 

[Ajay]

Yup, after the blatant con job from Foxconn I wouldn't be even remotely surprised if this wouldn't play out similarly.

Very different circumstances. Taiwan, and hence TSMC, have a very different relationship with the US compared to Foxconn.

 

[Atreus21]

You joke, but someday, we'll need interstate pipelines and overflow reservoirs for that kind of thing. It'll be expensive to build and maintain, but oh it would be brilliant.

For what kind of thing? Maintaining the levees?

 

[DrMrLordX]

For what kind of thing? Maintaining the levees?

For conveying floodwater to arid parts of the country. Among other things.

 

[moinmoin]

Very different circumstances. Taiwan, and hence TSMC, have a very different relationship with the US compared to Foxconn.

Foxconn is also Taiwanese.

 

[Ajay]

Foxconn is also Taiwanese.

Interesting - my bad. Still, Foxconn's business model relies more heavily on cheap labor (and 'expendable' labor at that). A US plant was a fools errand.

 

[maddie]

For conveying floodwater to arid parts of the country. Among other things.

But, but, but, you'll be preventing freshwater from reaching its traditional areas. Horror! Change must never happen.

 

[Doug S]

AZ uses reclaimed water, just not for drinking water.

Yes they can use it for stuff like irrigation at golf courses, car washes and the like. Treating water to the point it met drinking water standards would cost more, plus most people wouldn't like the idea that their drinking water was flushed down someone else's toilet that morning no matter how clean they make it.

 

[moinmoin]

Interesting - my bad. Still, Foxconn's business model relies more heavily on cheap labor (and 'expendable' labor at that). A US plant was a fools errand.

Last I checked most top ODMs and many top EMSs were Taiwanese and none Chinese. Makes sense, historically Taiwan as one of the four Asian tigers had the tech, China right next door had the cheap labor.

 

[DrMrLordX]

But, but, but, you'll be preventing freshwater from reaching its traditional areas. Horror! Change must never happen.

Eh. Depends on how much you move, when, and how. It would be a beast to set up and manage, but if done properly, it would actually make watershed management much, much easier.

 

[maddie]

Eh. Depends on how much you move, when, and how. It would be a beast to set up and manage, but if done properly, it would actually make watershed management much, much easier.

I hate using /s, kind of defeats the art. Need more practice I guess.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I hate using /s, kind of defeats the art. Need more practice I guess.

I know you were being sarcastic. I like deadpanning sarcastic remarks.

 

[gdansk]

They had better be offering the same tax concessions to TSMC as Intel or else they're favoring foreign investors. I'm guessing that's what the articles saying Intel was involved in discussions were about. Or perhaps Intel will be building a contract fab too.

 

[ThatBuzzkiller]

Interesting - my bad. Still, Foxconn's business model relies more heavily on cheap labor (and 'expendable' labor at that). A US plant was a fools errand.

Not every Taiwanese feels politically unified about their relations with either America or China. Foxconn's former Chairman, Terry Gou has been a KMT party loyalist for many years and Morris Chang who founded TSMC seems like one of those enlightened types you'd find at American east coast universities where he would probably lean with the DPP ...

TSMC figure heads aren't complying with US orders because they have to but it's because they want to send a political message that doing business with China is unacceptable even though they don't really have any valid reasons to follow US orders ...

Foxconn's leadership are as pro-Chinese as they possibly can get just short of acknowledging the "one-China policy" ...

 

[Arkaign]

Foxconn is ultimately far more replaceable than TSMC. Not that it would be a trivial undertaking, but PCB assembly, no matter how complex, is inherently less difficult to reproduce vs actual leading edge processor fabs are to create (exemplified by the veterans at Intel with many billions STILL struggling to ramp up 10nm or achieve sub-10nm, notwithstanding the 7nm TSMC ~ 10nm Intel argument, which is valid to an extent, but nobody really can dispute the fact TSMC has been more successful with their yields and scaling of 7nm volume).

I'm in the unenviable position of knowing, not guessing, that we are already in a new cold war standing, and that China is now a dedicated enemy of the US and its allies. Thus divestment of non-CCP owned tech should and will be a rapid and dedicated top priority undertaking moving forward. To do otherwise would be like putting our factories in the Soviet Union circa 1946-48.

 

[Ajay]

Not every Taiwanese feels politically unified about their relations with either America or China. Foxconn's former Chairman, Terry Gou has been a KMT party loyalist for many years and Morris Chang who founded TSMC seems like one of those enlightened types you'd find at American east coast universities where he would probably lean with the DPP ...

TSMC figure heads aren't complying with US orders because they have to but it's because they want to send a political message that doing business with China is unacceptable even though they don't really have any valid reasons to follow US orders ...

Foxconn's leadership are as pro-Chinese as they possibly can get just short of acknowledging the "one-China policy" ...

Thanks for the insights. I stand corrected. Obvously, I don't understand the inner working of Taiwanese companies or party alignment.

 

[AkulaMD]

Not every Taiwanese feels politically unified about their relations with either America or China. Foxconn's former Chairman, Terry Gou has been a KMT party loyalist for many years and Morris Chang who founded TSMC seems like one of those enlightened types you'd find at American east coast universities where he would probably lean with the DPP ...

TSMC figure heads aren't complying with US orders because they have to but it's because they want to send a political message that doing business with China is unacceptable even though they don't really have any valid reasons to follow US orders ...

Foxconn's leadership are as pro-Chinese as they possibly can get just short of acknowledging the "one-China policy" ...

I thought KMT (ROC) was and still is anti CCP (PRC).

I wonder what is the gain for TSMC by not doing business with China (PRC)? I thought they are doing everything they can to get an exemption so they can continue business with China