Article TSMC to Build Advanced Semiconductor Facility in Arizona

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
100,462
14,485
136
The Colorado river ? and power from Hoover dam ? Both in Arizona ?
...and CA gets much/most of their water from AZ. so uh, maybe not too happy?


The way the asinine water rights were set up generations ago, hasn't really worked for the modern world....well for generations now. If what you are saying is true, then this is going to cause a poop storm.
 

soresu

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2014
1,124
380
136
Good to see TSMC wanting to .....
There is clearly something in it for them - either a carrot, a stick, or a bit of both.

They certainly haven't been given any reason to look favourably on such a move out of the goodness of their hearts recently, quite the opposite in fact given a specific move designed to deny them Huawei's business.

At a guess the deciding factor would be a cast iron guarantee of unimpeded access to ASML product regardless of whatever customer they wish to fab for - including Huawei, who are by no means a low volume customer to blithely shrug off being denied access to contracts for.

It would mean that they can offload fab output to US customers directly without import tax duties applying - so AMD, Qualcomm, Apple etc products could have lower BOM's as a result, but I would be very surprised to see the move impact consumer facing prices at all.
 

Thunder 57

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2007
1,382
1,111
136
P&N? Can anything grow in that fetid swamp?
Not usually it seems. These are hyper partisan times but a TSMC fab on US soil should be something we all agree is good.

Does anything get built in the U.S. anymore without huge gov't handouts and tax breaks to multi-billion corporations? And *cough* as for political, when everything these days is for the glory of the Great Leader...
I thought we didn't want to make this political. Yet here you are adding fuel to the fire.
 

tamz_msc

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2017
2,517
2,195
106

ThatBuzzkiller

Senior member
Nov 14, 2014
906
108
106
I guess this is where an exodus former Intel engineers will congregate after they lose their jobs. It's a win-win situation all around. Intel can stop investing in their failing fab business and their employees can find work at a new place ...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Thunder 57

Thunder 57

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2007
1,382
1,111
136
Seriously? It's entirely consumed on the way...? How is that even legal?


And what are YOU doing then...? One sarcastic sentence you pick out of my entire post just so you can complain about it.
It might be one "sarcastic sentence" I picked, but it was by far the most political post here yet. We were trying to avoid politics. You added fuel to the fire. I mean come on, "Great Leader"? That isn't appropriate here.

I thought we were on the right track to making this politics-free. We don't need any "sarcastic sentences".

Back on topic:

Like I said earlier, 5nm in 2024 sounds boring. I guess they are keeping their best secrets at home?
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
15,494
4,281
136
Does anything get built in the U.S. anymore without huge gov't handouts and tax breaks to multi-billion corporations?
Not very often. If you look at Amazon and Tesla in the recent past, you can see that things can and do happen (often very quickly) in the United States when people put their minds to it and when they can somehow dodge NIMBYism. But if you look at modern Amazon or perhaps Tesla in the near future (or really anyone else today or the last 20 years), you will see that businesses have been conditioned to shop around for politicians that will offer them tax breaks and other amenities.

Filter, process, re-use... Considering how much in the way of nasty chemicals fabs use anyway, they were hopefully going to do that anyway. :)
How do they do it in Taiwan? It is not a large country, and they don't have a lot of room for pollution there.

believe it when anyone sees it, right?
Followup reporting hasn't been good on that particular story.

Not usually it seems. These are hyper partisan times but a TSMC fab on US soil should be something we all agree is good.
In the long run. As with all developments in the United States, you have to wonder who got bribed and by how much.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zinfamous

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
7,681
1,051
126
There is clearly something in it for them - either a carrot, a stick, or a bit of both.
The US Gov probably offered them decent business if they built a fab here, not to mention it reduces the risk if China were to do something to Taiwan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OTG

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
100,462
14,485
136
Not usually it seems. These are hyper partisan times but a TSMC fab on US soil should be something we all agree is good.
right, but the Devil is in the details, especially when we already have a documented example of what happened when FoxConn showed up in Wisconsin--we can't simply "all agree that this is good" anymore because we know for a fact that this is rarely true.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StrangerGuy

Thunder 57

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2007
1,382
1,111
136
right, but the Devil is in the details, especially when we already have a documented example of what happened when FoxConn showed up in Wisconsin--we can't simply "all agree that this is good" anymore because we know for a fact that this is rarely true.
Of course. But I mentioned that in an earlier post. And as of this morning it's looking like it is happening.

I agree, but maybe there should be a thread in P&N about it should it come true. It would be a major coup for whoever managed to make it work out.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
3,065
1,685
136
The US Gov probably offered them decent business if they built a fab here, not to mention it reduces the risk if China were to do something to Taiwan.
One fab and reduce risk, sounds funny, when compared to totals, but I agree on its insurance value. Also I guess no one is saying that it stops at one fab, as I'm sure the pressure will be applied to further increase the number. A lengthy period of tension is coming regarding China & America barring no change in administration later this year, so positions are being prepared.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
100,462
14,485
136
Of course. But I mentioned that in an earlier post. And as of this morning it's looking like it is happening.
Right I get it. I'm with you though and this generally sounds like a good thing to me, but my actual concern is what was mentioned earlier, and the water requirements for a fab. If that is true, then Arizona is probably one of the worst places on the planet to build one (and to me, environmental impact is always going to be number one concern anyway), which further makes me suspect that there are many shenanigans involved in this deal.

It's not about putting it in the US to me, it's about doing it responsibly for actual living humans, and also legitimately benefiting the region where it is built.

I'm simply reacting to the water thing, which then raises some further suspicions the more one thinks about it...
 

Thunder 57

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2007
1,382
1,111
136
Right I get it. I'm with you though and this generally sounds like a good thing to me, but my actual concern is what was mentioned earlier, and the water requirements for a fab. If that is true, then Arizona is probably one of the worst places on the planet to build one (and to me, environmental impact is always going to be number one concern anyway), which further makes me suspect that there are many shenanigans involved in this deal.

It's not about putting it in the US to me, it's about doing it responsibly for actual living humans, and also legitimately benefiting the region where it is built.

I'm simply reacting to the water thing, which then raises some further suspicions the more one thinks about it...
Fair enough, AZ doesn't make a whole lot of sense. But there are other places in the US that so. Like Mark said, the Pacific Northwest. Also easier to keep cool there. Wonder why Intel built a fab in AZ though, tax reasons? Or maybe there is some legit reason.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
7,681
1,051
126
Come to think of it, Intel might have been the one to spearhead this. The US Government probally wouldn't let Intel give up without TSMC committing to fab here.
 

soresu

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2014
1,124
380
136
The US Gov probably offered them decent business if they built a fab here, not to mention it reduces the risk if China were to do something to Taiwan.
More likely as I mentioned the govmt agreed to do away with the restrictions recently imposed upon export of ASML fab equipment to TSMC, which effectively banned TSMC from having Huawei as a fab customer, which is not a small financial loss for the company, especially in these uncertain times.

It's basically blackmail at the end of the day.

Either way, TSMC is a Taiwanese company, not an American company that moved to Taiwan.

Saying that building a fab in the US protects them from China invading is like saying Intel having a fab in Israel would protect them if the US was hit by an asteroid - somehow I don't think the employees first thoughts would be "yay we still have a working fab!".
 
Last edited:

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
7,681
1,051
126
Saying that building a fab in the US protects them from China invading is like saying Intel having a fab in Israel would protect them if the US was hit by an asteroid - somehow I don't think the employees first thoughts would be "yay we still have a working fab!".
It's not like the rank and file have a say in this. The ASML angle is a good one though.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
78,883
6,822
126
Will add that labor costs I have to think are also less in Arizona than say Oregon although IIRC Fab workers don't make that much.
There is no water available in AZ... And fabs are big water users and most of it has to be Ultra Pure Water. They also chew through power like there is no tomorrow.
 

soresu

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2014
1,124
380
136
There is no water available in AZ... And fabs are big water users and most of it has to be Ultra Pure Water. They also chew through power like there is no tomorrow.
I'd be surprised if local governments weren't willing to build a power plant to accommodate them - though obviously large water capacity is a trifle more problematic.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY