Article TSMC to Build Advanced Semiconductor Facility in Arizona

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Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
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II am assuming this will be built in the Phoenix area. Which is 150 miles from the Colorado river. Now they have built tributaries that carries the water into the city. But the big issue they have is the Colorado has not been able to keep up with demand. Lake Mead is getting dangerously close to not providing enough pressure to run the Hoover Dam. And there is legit fear the colorado wont be able to supply enough fresh water for the city within a few years.

Further, I can only assume from my experience brown outs happen in the summer on a regular basis. My old company had their HQ in scottsdale. Brownouts happen around 1-2 times a month in the summer months.

Apparently Data Centers are also a big thing in Phoenix. The reason appears to be very little weather or geological related issues. Which again surprises me due to the heat\brown out situations I experienced. /shrug
These fabs have basically their own substations on site to avoid any possible power fluctuations.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
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Come to New Orleans. Water's one thing we got plenty of. Relieve pressure on the levees. Give the Army Corps of Engineers a breather.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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Come to New Orleans. Water's one thing we got plenty of. Relieve pressure on the levees. Give the Army Corps of Engineers a breather.
You joke, but someday, we'll need interstate pipelines and overflow reservoirs for that kind of thing. It'll be expensive to build and maintain, but oh it would be brilliant.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
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right, but the Devil is in the details, especially when we already have a documented example of what happened when FoxConn showed up in Wisconsin--we can't simply "all agree that this is good" anymore because we know for a fact that this is rarely true.
Yup, after the blatant con job from Foxconn I wouldn't be even remotely surprised if this wouldn't play out similarly.
 

Doug S

Member
Feb 8, 2020
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AZ uses reclaimed water, just not for drinking water.
Yes they can use it for stuff like irrigation at golf courses, car washes and the like. Treating water to the point it met drinking water standards would cost more, plus most people wouldn't like the idea that their drinking water was flushed down someone else's toilet that morning no matter how clean they make it.
 
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moinmoin

Golden Member
Jun 1, 2017
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Interesting - my bad. Still, Foxconn's business model relies more heavily on cheap labor (and 'expendable' labor at that). A US plant was a fools errand.
Last I checked most top ODMs and many top EMSs were Taiwanese and none Chinese. Makes sense, historically Taiwan as one of the four Asian tigers had the tech, China right next door had the cheap labor.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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But, but, but, you'll be preventing freshwater from reaching its traditional areas. Horror! Change must never happen.
Eh. Depends on how much you move, when, and how. It would be a beast to set up and manage, but if done properly, it would actually make watershed management much, much easier.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
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Eh. Depends on how much you move, when, and how. It would be a beast to set up and manage, but if done properly, it would actually make watershed management much, much easier.
I hate using /s, kind of defeats the art. Need more practice I guess.
 

gdansk

Senior member
Feb 8, 2011
449
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They had better be offering the same tax concessions to TSMC as Intel or else they're favoring foreign investors. I'm guessing that's what the articles saying Intel was involved in discussions were about. Or perhaps Intel will be building a contract fab too.
 
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ThatBuzzkiller

Senior member
Nov 14, 2014
906
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Interesting - my bad. Still, Foxconn's business model relies more heavily on cheap labor (and 'expendable' labor at that). A US plant was a fools errand.
Not every Taiwanese feels politically unified about their relations with either America or China. Foxconn's former Chairman, Terry Gou has been a KMT party loyalist for many years and Morris Chang who founded TSMC seems like one of those enlightened types you'd find at American east coast universities where he would probably lean with the DPP ...

TSMC figure heads aren't complying with US orders because they have to but it's because they want to send a political message that doing business with China is unacceptable even though they don't really have any valid reasons to follow US orders ...

Foxconn's leadership are as pro-Chinese as they possibly can get just short of acknowledging the "one-China policy" ...
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,451
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Foxconn is ultimately far more replaceable than TSMC. Not that it would be a trivial undertaking, but PCB assembly, no matter how complex, is inherently less difficult to reproduce vs actual leading edge processor fabs are to create (exemplified by the veterans at Intel with many billions STILL struggling to ramp up 10nm or achieve sub-10nm, notwithstanding the 7nm TSMC ~ 10nm Intel argument, which is valid to an extent, but nobody really can dispute the fact TSMC has been more successful with their yields and scaling of 7nm volume).

I'm in the unenviable position of knowing, not guessing, that we are already in a new cold war standing, and that China is now a dedicated enemy of the US and its allies. Thus divestment of non-CCP owned tech should and will be a rapid and dedicated top priority undertaking moving forward. To do otherwise would be like putting our factories in the Soviet Union circa 1946-48.
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
6,821
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Not every Taiwanese feels politically unified about their relations with either America or China. Foxconn's former Chairman, Terry Gou has been a KMT party loyalist for many years and Morris Chang who founded TSMC seems like one of those enlightened types you'd find at American east coast universities where he would probably lean with the DPP ...

TSMC figure heads aren't complying with US orders because they have to but it's because they want to send a political message that doing business with China is unacceptable even though they don't really have any valid reasons to follow US orders ...

Foxconn's leadership are as pro-Chinese as they possibly can get just short of acknowledging the "one-China policy" ...
Thanks for the insights. I stand corrected. Obvously, I don't understand the inner working of Taiwanese companies or party alignment.
 

AkulaMD

Member
May 20, 2017
42
12
51
Not every Taiwanese feels politically unified about their relations with either America or China. Foxconn's former Chairman, Terry Gou has been a KMT party loyalist for many years and Morris Chang who founded TSMC seems like one of those enlightened types you'd find at American east coast universities where he would probably lean with the DPP ...

TSMC figure heads aren't complying with US orders because they have to but it's because they want to send a political message that doing business with China is unacceptable even though they don't really have any valid reasons to follow US orders ...

Foxconn's leadership are as pro-Chinese as they possibly can get just short of acknowledging the "one-China policy" ...
I thought KMT (ROC) was and still is anti CCP (PRC).

I wonder what is the gain for TSMC by not doing business with China (PRC)? I thought they are doing everything they can to get an exemption so they can continue business with China
 
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