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Article TSMC to Build Advanced Semiconductor Facility in Arizona

uzzi38

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Sorry about that, just posted the article without really thinking much at the time.

Anyway, this is a really drastic shift even to what TSMC were saying just days ago. Seems like the main node in question is N5 operational by the end of 2023, which is late for sure, but even still, a massive move. Especially considering they're starting off in Arizona, no doubt to they could potentially grab a hold over some workforce from a certain someone else in the area.

One more thing that makes this a huge move is TSMC's own wording on the node in question. They believe N5 is going to be one of their most long-lasting and popular nodes simply because the cost to go even smaller is so large most companies won't even try to develop silicon on a smaller node. Getting N5 operational and producing it there in a fab in the US is a move with rather long term effects.
 
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DisEnchantment

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Bigger question is what kind of fab? Some low tech N7 or bleeding edge N3+ :D J/K

Are they going to get some benefits? like Tax free for few years, grant, free plot or something?

On the other hand chips made here would need to be sent to Asia for assembly, testing and stuffs (unless they plan to build the entire ecosystem there).
Another obvious question would be would Samsung have to expand/upgrade their Austin Fab?

Hopefully this thread does not turn political.

TSMC to Build Chip Plant in Arizona With Government Support
An agreement would call for TSMC to build a plant in Arizona by 2023, according to the people. It’s unclear what type of support the project will get from the federal government or the state of Arizona.
 
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maddie

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Bigger question is what kind of fab? Some low tech N7 or bleeding edge N3+ :D J/K

Are they going to get some benefits? like Tax free for few years, grant, free plot or something?

On the other hand chips made here would need to be sent to Asia for assembly, testing and stuffs (unless they plan to build the entire ecosystem there).
Another obvious question would be would Samsung have to expand/upgrade their Austin Fab?

Hopefully this thread does not turn political.

TSMC to Build Chip Plant in Arizona With Government Support

Hard to prevent as this almost certainly has a political angle.
 

Doug S

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Feb 8, 2020
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This will be much more convenient travel for Apple and Qualcomm engineers than Taiwan, but I wonder why Arizona? Fabs need a crapload of water, seems there are other states that would make more sense. I imagine the choice had more to do with tax incentives than what really makes sense in practical terms.
 

Markfw

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This will be much more convenient travel for Apple and Qualcomm engineers than Taiwan, but I wonder why Arizona? Fabs need a crapload of water, seems there are other states that would make more sense. I imagine the choice had more to do with tax incentives than what really makes sense in practical terms.
The Colorado river ? and power from Hoover dam ? Both in Arizona ?
 
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jpiniero

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This will be much more convenient travel for Apple and Qualcomm engineers than Taiwan, but I wonder why Arizona? Fabs need a crapload of water, seems there are other states that would make more sense. I imagine the choice had more to do with tax incentives than what really makes sense in practical terms.
Cheap electricity and a local government willing to look the other way on pollution.

Intel has fabs in Arizona and Samsung's US fab is in Texas.
 
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RetroZombie

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Intel must be really excited.
Not sure.
I wonder if this is not some trump intel (fabs/process) saving plan, like:
- Intel using tsmc fabs for their products (gpus/...)​
- Borrow* tsmc expertise​
- Some patents swap​
- Actually license tsmc process like GF with samsung​

*Steal is also a good secondary plan

If tsmc was some usa company, which isn't and never was, that somehow needed to return 'home' like intel, ibm, apple, amd, nvidia, dell, commodore, atari, dell, qualcomm, hp, microsoft, google, ...
 

coercitiv

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*Steal is also a good secondary plan
On the subject of stealing, how's that Foxconn plant in Wisconsin coming along?

I would be very weary of imagining anything in relation to this piece of news until TSMC publicly says the words in the right order.
 

moinmoin

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If tsmc was some usa company, which isn't and never was, that somehow needed to return 'home' like intel, ibm, apple, amd, nvidia, dell, commodore, atari, dell, qualcomm, hp, microsoft, google, ...
It's a Taiwanese company, from a country that's completely reliant on the US' support considering most countries (including the US) don't recognize it as an official country. This is likely the deal Trump got for TSMC not having to reject its Chinese customers.
 

Doug S

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Feb 8, 2020
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The Colorado river ? and power from Hoover dam ? Both in Arizona ?
All the water in the Colorado River is allocated between states via some treaty that dates back decades. They can't just pull millions of gallons of additional water out of the Colorado without the state reducing water usage elsewhere.

Worse, the Colorado is likely to have less and less water, as Lake Mead's level has been well below what was originally envisioned as its "normal" level for a long time.
 

Doug S

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Feb 8, 2020
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I saw a mention that this fab would be for 5nm production. Since TSMC is currently ramping 5nm production, by the time this fab comes on line even N3 (let alone N5) will be getting long in the tooth so it sounds like this isn't a leading edge fab and won't be useful to Apple. Qualcomm would probably be happy to make most of their stuff on an older/cheaper process, and only use the leading edge for their high end products that go into flagship phones.
 

Hitman928

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The U.S. is very, very interested in keeping modern node capable fabs on U.S. soil for a few reasons. They'd prefer it to be a domestic company but that's not really a possibility anymore. Even if Intel gets their 7 nm process together, they're 3rd party fab operation sucks. If this does happen, I'd expect at least some portion of the fab will follow additional rules to protect potential U.S. government owned designs that may be fabricated there.
 
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chrisjames61

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Dec 31, 2013
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All the water in the Colorado River is allocated between states via some treaty that dates back decades. They can't just pull millions of gallons of additional water out of the Colorado without the state reducing water usage elsewhere.

Worse, the Colorado is likely to have less and less water, as Lake Mead's level has been well below what was originally envisioned as its "normal" level for a long time.
The Pacific northwest would have all the water including hydropower but I guess that isn't important?
 
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DrMrLordX

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Thunder 57

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Awe, c'mon man, this is a tech thread.
I agree, but maybe there should be a thread in P&N about it should it come true. It would be a major coup for whoever managed to make it work out.

Back on topic, N5 in 2024 doesn't sound all that exciting. It's said they could be open in 2023 but we'll see. At this point it will be interesting to see where all the major fabs are in 3-4 years.
 

maddie

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I agree, but maybe there should be a thread in P&N about it should it come true. It would be a major coup for whoever managed to make it work out.

Back on topic, N5 in 2024 doesn't sound all that exciting. It's said they could be open in 2023 but we'll see. At this point it will be interesting to see where all the major fabs are in 3-4 years.
P&N? Can anything grow in that fetid swamp?

Earlier, I remember them saying no, they have no plans for this. Rest behind paywall. I can only imagine the horse trading happening.

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20200117PD214.html

17th Jan 2020:

In response to reports indicating Washington has increased its pressure on TSMC to have a plant in the US for the fabrication of high-security products, the Taiwan-based foundry said that it has no such plans in the short term but the feasibility is...
 
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FaaR

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Bigger question is what kind of fab? Some low tech N7 or bleeding edge N3+ :D J/K

Are they going to get some benefits? like Tax free for few years, grant, free plot or something?

Hopefully this thread does not turn political.
Does anything get built in the U.S. anymore without huge gov't handouts and tax breaks to multi-billion corporations? And *cough* as for political, when everything these days is for the glory of the Great Leader...

If TSMC is actually serious about building this thing (unlike that promised Foxconn plant, which is one empty, abandoned office building and nothing else), if they're targeting a 2023 operational date they need to have shovels in the ground, not now, but yesterday. :p

All the water in the Colorado River is allocated between states via some treaty that dates back decades. They can't just pull millions of gallons of additional water out of the Colorado without the state reducing water usage elsewhere.
Filter, process, re-use... Considering how much in the way of nasty chemicals fabs use anyway, they were hopefully going to do that anyway. :)

And like you already said, water isn't exactly getting more abundant in this region of the U.S., so measures should be taken to minimize any environmental impact.
 

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