"Tom Brady prefer his balls to feel a certain way" - balls underinflated

[CZroe]

I posted the reason, it was the destruction. He didn't refuse to hand it over, he did that, then destroyed it.

How about texts between Brady and oh, I don't know, the owner/GM/HC/QB coach/anyone else on the team or management.

Again, this is a moot point.

edit: @Butch1 you're right, it only show just how incompetent Goodell is.

"He did that?!" No he didn't. He checked and got the "OK" before he destroyed it. Admit it: That's the exact opposite of how you have mischaracterized him here. You can't just lie to keep your argument afloat.

 

[emperus]

I posted the reason, it was the destruction. He didn't refuse to hand it over, he did that, then destroyed it.

How about texts between Brady and oh, I don't know, the owner/GM/HC/QB coach/anyone else on the team or management.

Again, this is a moot point.

edit: @Butch1 you're right, it only show just how incompetent Goodell is.

The NFL had all the phones of the GM/DC/QB coach and Brady offered to give them his phone records to prove that there were no missing texts from the devices that they had (non NFLPA Patriots Employees) and his phone.

Since your initial example was off. Would you like to try again or just admit it was a useful distraction (Propaganda by the NFL)?

 

[LegendKiller]

Look, I'm on Brady's side on this, but this doesn't prove anything nor is it the reason most people took issue with the cell phone. There could have been relevant texts to another party, and the reason people took issue with the cell phone was the destruction which prevented any additional checks on it.

This statement doesn't nothing to ease those concerns. It just shows Brady provided all the texts they asked for.

It's a moot point now.

If they wanted to see all pertaining texts, simply subpoena the phone company and have attorneys look through the texts and provide everything at their own risk of not complying with a judicial subpoena. Failure to comply can result in fines, disbarment, or even worse.

The phone was a sideshow, a ruse, a hustle, a red herring, anything but real issue. It was an excuse to make some punishment stick after the Wells Report failed to provide them a reason.

That people *still* do not understand that they could simply have done this only highlights two things -

1. How little people know of the legal system

2. How easily it is for an information campaign to succeed against poorly informed people.


That espn's "legal expert" among any journalist reporting on this hasn't repeatedly discredited the NFL on this specific point is ridiculous. Even a first year law student knows how this shit works.

I know this because I had my emails and all files subpoenaed by the FBI and SEC. I had to comb through all of my work drives, send everything to our attorneys. I also had to find any files I may have worked on in my home computers, or emails sent to non work addresses. I turned over 3 notebook hdds from dead computers that I had kept. The attorneys used specific codewords to parse through all data to find any relevant files. They then put it all on cds and sent it off to the SEC and FBI and later, to attorneys for a subsequent litigation revolving the around the same thing.

The last thought you have, or thing you can do, is hide shit from a judge, the FBI or SEC. They could have subpoenaed my personal email company, found something I didn't report, and if material, I and my attorneys could have been held in contempt.

 

[LegendKiller]

Do you know anything about how evidence are gathered, and what is admissible in a court of law?

You can't just ask someone to hand you whatever you wanted in hope that you'll find some dirt on them, however remote that chance is.

It's amazing people spout this shit and don't even bother learning about legal procedures like discovery.

 

[Phoenix86]

Do you know anything about how evidence are gathered, and what is admissible in a court of law?

You can't just ask someone to hand you whatever you wanted in hope that you'll find some dirt on them, however remote that chance is.

You are aware they weren't even in court right? This has nothing to do with improper evidence gathering either, because. This was arbitration and there was never a subpoena for the phone.

I never said he was obligated to hand the phone over (read my past comments on it). I said destroying it was the issue most people took with the phone. Why is that a problem? Because it prevents a subpoena (if it ever got that far). It removed the ability for a judge to make a decision if it should be looked at.

But go ahead and tell me how it works.

 

[Phoenix86]

They got the relevant texts they needed.

Which is why I said it's a moot point, but hey everyone want to get into it again for mental masturbation.

 

[LegendKiller]

You are aware they weren't even in court right? This has nothing to do with improper evidence gathering either, because. This was arbitration and there was never a subpoena for the phone.

I never said he was obligated to hand the phone over (read my past comments on it). I said destroying it was the issue most people took with the phone. Why is that a problem? Because it prevents a subpoena (if it ever got that far). It removed the ability for a judge to make a decision if it should be looked at.

But go ahead and tell me how it works.

So what? Did they subpoena them during the recent court case?

The problem is that the league has said he destroyed data. He didn't destroy data, he refused to turn over personal property when he didn't have to. There is a huge difference. Even under court order he would have been compelled to produce non material data to the league. Compelling him to do so under league "rules" is a violation of due process under the Constitution. That over rules anything the league has, no matter what.

Which is what this was about. The league tried a witch hunt and got bitch - slapped for it, rightly so.


He would have been insane to hand over his phone. Only a fucking moron would do that. The league knew that and tried to bluff him but his legal team knew they were holding the better hand.

Now they look like utter morons and so does anybody who continues the narrative that Brady did anything wrong.

 

[emperus]

Which is why I said it's a moot point, but hey everyone want to get into it again for mental masturbation.

If it is a moot point because they had all relevant texts, then why does anyone care if he destroyed his phone. You can't have it both ways.

 

[emperus]

You are aware they weren't even in court right? This has nothing to do with improper evidence gathering either, because. This was arbitration and there was never a subpoena for the phone.

I never said he was obligated to hand the phone over (read my past comments on it). I said destroying it was the issue most people took with the phone. Why is that a problem? Because it prevents a subpoena (if it ever got that far). It removed the ability for a judge to make a decision if it should be looked at.

But go ahead and tell me how it works.

There would never be a time where his phone would be subpoenaed by a court absent a finding he broke a law. The NFL doesn't have subpoena power and the appellate court only reviews the process, not the facts of the case.

 

[LegendKiller]

There would never be a time where his phone would be subpoenaed by a court absent a finding he broke a law. The NFL doesn't have subpoena power and the appellate court only reviews the process, not the facts of the case.

I have yet to see where Berman couldn't subpoena the info if he wanted.

 

[emperus]

I have yet to see where Berman couldn't subpoena the info if he wanted.

It's the way the appellate process works. They don't re-try the facts of the case, they just limit themselves to the process.

If you look at Berman's ruling, he doesn't touch the facts. His decision is based on the NFL's Arbitration process.

 

[Phokus]

It's the way the appellate process works. They don't re-try the facts of the case, they just limit themselves to the process.

If you look at Berman's ruling, he doesn't touch the facts. His decision is based on the NFL's Arbitration process.

He didn't touch facts in the ruling, but he DID go after hard at the NFL over the actual facts in the hearing, it was completely one sided. The ONLY reason why he didn't rule on the facts was because he was legally only allowed to rule on the process. However, it seemed he used the facts of the case as part of the basis of his logic on how flawed the process was, during the actual arguments.

 

[emperus]

He didn't touch facts in the ruling, but he DID go after hard at the NFL over the actual facts in the hearing, it was completely one sided. The ONLY reason why he didn't rule on the facts was because he was legally only allowed to rule on the process. However, it seemed he used the facts of the case as part of the basis of his logic on how flawed the process was, during the actual arguments.

Yeah, exactly. So, there was never a point where Brady's cell phone would have been subpoenaed because he legally could only deal with the Process. But it is incredible how badly the NFL lost this case; not only did Berman unseal the Appeals hearing transcript shining sunlight on the NFL lies, he also thoroughly trashed the legitimacy of the Wells report during the hearings undermining their well scripted Propaganda against Brady. I don't think the NFL ever expected that.

 

[BUTCH1]

The official NFL twitter account made a tweet with the pic's of seven NFL QB's and a big #50 in the background with 2 blank lines. Amazingly they left out TB12 who just happened to win the last one. I am both amazed and saddened to the new low and pettiness, have a look, link

 

[SSSnail]

You are aware they weren't even in court right? This has nothing to do with improper evidence gathering either, because. This was arbitration and there was never a subpoena for the phone.

I never said he was obligated to hand the phone over (read my past comments on it). I said destroying it was the issue most people took with the phone. Why is that a problem? Because it prevents a subpoena (if it ever got that far). It removed the ability for a judge to make a decision if it should be looked at.

But go ahead and tell me how it works.

Glad you brought that up, because Brady could submit his middle fingers in arbitration, which he did, because it amounted to the same damn thing.

 

[emperus]

The official NFL twitter account made a tweet with the pic's of seven NFL QB's and a big #50 in the background with 2 blank lines. Amazingly they left out TB12 who just happened to win the last one. I am both amazed and saddened to the new low and pettiness, have a look, link

Yeah crazy right. The NFL is so juvenile. To not include the QB who won the last Superbowl? Yeah, I guess we can now understand the reasoning behind the 4 game Suspension.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Bears repeating that none of the investigation crap should have ever even happened, or mattered, since it's very questionable that the balls were ever under the PSI limit at the start of the game.

The pressures measured at the half were consistent with balls that were 12.5 at the start of the game that had then been out in the cold for 3 hours.

So everything that happened after that really is irrelevant.

 

[BUTCH1]

Bears repeating that none of the investigation crap should have ever even happened, or mattered, since it's very questionable that the balls were ever under the PSI limit at the start of the game.

The pressures measured at the half were consistent with balls that were 12.5 at the start of the game that had then been out in the cold for 3 hours.

So everything that happened after that really is irrelevant.

There are some who work for the league that have an intense hatred for the Pats or Bill B. Mike Kensil (game day operations man) was a former Jet employee when Bill B walked out after being head coach for one day and left to work for Kraft. He was responsible for the "leak" to ESPN's Mortenson that 11/12 balls were 2PSI off which ignited the story. During the Wells investigation Patriots counsel emailed NFL head counsel Pash several time to get the league to correct the false information, they got stonewalled with answers like "releasing additional information might cause more confusion". Huh? I'm still surprised Kraft isn't going after his $$ and draft picks back.

 

[waggy]

The official NFL twitter account made a tweet with the pic's of seven NFL QB's and a big #50 in the background with 2 blank lines. Amazingly they left out TB12 who just happened to win the last one. I am both amazed and saddened to the new low and pettiness, have a look, link

LOL

that's funny though.

 

[cabri]

There are some who work for the league that have an intense hatred for the Pats or Bill B. Mike Kensil (game day operations man) was a former Jet employee when Bill B walked out after being head coach for one day and left to work for Kraft. He was responsible for the "leak" to ESPN's Mortenson that 11/12 balls were 2PSI off which ignited the story. During the Wells investigation Patriots counsel emailed NFL head counsel Pash several time to get the league to correct the false information, they got stonewalled with answers like "releasing additional information might cause more confusion". Huh? I'm still surprised Kraft isn't going after his $$ and draft picks back.

Until the Brady issue is fully resolved; going after the draft picks/$$ can muddy the waters for Brady

 

[BUTCH1]

Until the Brady issue is fully resolved; going after the draft picks/$$ can muddy the waters for Brady

I don't see Kraft doing it but only because he does not want the other 31 owners to become his enemy.

 

[cabri]

I don't see Kraft doing it but only because he does not want the other 31 owners to become his enemy.

I do not think he is worried about the other 31 owners.

Unless he wants to push on principal

• He may feel that the Pats can survive without the draft picks. (True Free agency and castoffs)
• The $$ means nothing to him.

 

[LegendKiller]

It's the way the appellate process works. They don't re-try the facts of the case, they just limit themselves to the process.

If you look at Berman's ruling, he doesn't touch the facts. His decision is based on the NFL's Arbitration process.

But I don't see where this was an appeals court ruling, this was an initial trial from what I understand. It was up to Brady/NFLPA as to what they wanted ruled on. The filed an appeal to the NFL punishment, but not another court's ruling. They were the plaintiff in an initial trial and filed a suit based upon the merits they wanted the judge to rule on. The judge could have expanded it depending on the merits and could have filed subpoenas, bit he likely knew it didnt matter. As far as I understand it.

Unless I do not know something important I believe people fundamentally misunderstand this process. Berman didn't rule in appeal, he ruled in trial which can be appealed. Furthermore, he didn't choose to rule on the process of punishment voluntarily, he was asked to rule on specific items in the complaint filed by brady and the nflpa. The judge can choose to go beyond that, but only when pertinent to the complaint items. It was not Berman who kept it to process, and thus elminated the leagues options to appeal, it was brady and nflpa attorneys. Had those complaints been dismissed (ruled in leagues favor) with no possibility to amend (with prejudice) brady would have lost, however, he could have had a chance to amend and expand to the fact a if berman had dismissed without prejudice. Had berman expanded beyond the complaint's scope without reason and that were believed to be a procedural error the NFL could have appealed on that expansion.

I believe this to be accurate. I have sued a lot of people in my prior job and have had cases go either way. However, I am not an attorney (even though some of the ones I have had working for me said I should be one).

 

[Phokus]

Obama had a funny quip about Unions/Tom Brady today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35-us4oLmIY&feature=youtu.be

 

[emperus]

Wow, the NFL and ESPN's prpoganda!!

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart