He was saying the nfl's case against Brady was "Open and shut". It wasn't, ehixh is ehy it was clar to the judge what needed to be done, to your points.
They could have easily said "Due to the circumstances of what the investigation was over, a more harsh penalty for destruction of the phone / refusal of giving the phone up is applicable. And a 1 game suspension, plus fine, for Brady is appropriate." They could argue that and probably win. However, Goodell is a fucking idiot.
Months and such, but it won't matter. Brady will be given a stay and play while this is happening.
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,143
- 10
- 81
yeah i knew he would be able to play. just wondering if this would be at the end of the year or next summer.
Probably a month before it goes to trial, and then a few months for each side to lay out their case while giving Brady time to actually work in between.
Phoenix86
Lifer
- May 21, 2003
- 14,644
- 10
- 81
OK, so how do people feel about the Greg Hardy case?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Hardy#Domestic_violence_charges_.26_suspension
Hardy's arrest and trial was the focus of considerable controversy, as news media drew comparisons to other NFL-related domestic violence cases, including those against Ray Rice, Ray McDonald and Adrian Peterson. On September 17, 2014, he was placed on the exempt list by the league, which meant that he could continue to draw his salary but was prohibited in taking part in any team activities.
On April 22, 2015, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell suspended Hardy for 10 games, after the league's 2 month long investigation found that there was "sufficient credible evidence" that Hardy had engaged in conduct which "violated NFL policies in multiple respects and with aggravating circumstances."
On July 10, 2015, an arbiter reduced Hardys suspension from 10 games to four games.
OK, so I'm not going to get into the actual abuse. Let's assume it happened, because it probably did. He deserves punishment.
He was put on the exception list, by Goodell, and sat out most of last year. Then a 10 game suspension was handed down. The time spent on the exception list was not applied to the 10 games, meaning in effect, he was suspended for many more than 10 games. Over the summer Goodell's decision was knocked down to 4 games.
Does it sound fair to have a 4 game suspension stretched into over a year long suspension by use of the commissioners exemption list? Note: charges were dismissed ~Feb 2015, so the league knew the final disposition of the legal case when the 10 game suspension came down. Again, not going to defend Hardy. In fact, I'll assume he was guilty and got away with it.
NFL Player Personnel Policy Manual:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000396169/article/what-is-the-exempt-list
"The Exempt List is a special player status available to clubs only in unusual circumstances. The List includes those players who have been declared by the Commissioner to be temporarily exempt from counting within the Active List limit. Only the Commissioner has the authority to place a player on the Exempt List; clubs have no such authority, and no exemption, regardless of circumstances, is automatic. The Commissioner also has the authority to determine in advance whether a player's time on the Exempt List will be finite or will continue until the Commissioner deems the exemption should be lifted and the player returned to the Active List."
Does a physical abuse case in the NFL such as Hardy's (or Peterson's) sound like an unusual circumstance? Seems pretty normal. The only unusual circumstance was the witness backing down, but that happened after Goodell put him on the list.
It seems to me Goodell was using the list reactionary to the handling of the Rice case. I'm kind of OK with that, pre-suspending people while all the details come out. What I take issue with is not applying that kind of pre-suspension to the actual suspension.
In other words, Hardy should have gotten off with time served. If Goodell's issue was he got paid: fine, return the pay, but let him play.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Hardy#Domestic_violence_charges_.26_suspension
Hardy's arrest and trial was the focus of considerable controversy, as news media drew comparisons to other NFL-related domestic violence cases, including those against Ray Rice, Ray McDonald and Adrian Peterson. On September 17, 2014, he was placed on the exempt list by the league, which meant that he could continue to draw his salary but was prohibited in taking part in any team activities.
On April 22, 2015, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell suspended Hardy for 10 games, after the league's 2 month long investigation found that there was "sufficient credible evidence" that Hardy had engaged in conduct which "violated NFL policies in multiple respects and with aggravating circumstances."
On July 10, 2015, an arbiter reduced Hardys suspension from 10 games to four games.
OK, so I'm not going to get into the actual abuse. Let's assume it happened, because it probably did. He deserves punishment.
He was put on the exception list, by Goodell, and sat out most of last year. Then a 10 game suspension was handed down. The time spent on the exception list was not applied to the 10 games, meaning in effect, he was suspended for many more than 10 games. Over the summer Goodell's decision was knocked down to 4 games.
Does it sound fair to have a 4 game suspension stretched into over a year long suspension by use of the commissioners exemption list? Note: charges were dismissed ~Feb 2015, so the league knew the final disposition of the legal case when the 10 game suspension came down. Again, not going to defend Hardy. In fact, I'll assume he was guilty and got away with it.
NFL Player Personnel Policy Manual:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000396169/article/what-is-the-exempt-list
"The Exempt List is a special player status available to clubs only in unusual circumstances. The List includes those players who have been declared by the Commissioner to be temporarily exempt from counting within the Active List limit. Only the Commissioner has the authority to place a player on the Exempt List; clubs have no such authority, and no exemption, regardless of circumstances, is automatic. The Commissioner also has the authority to determine in advance whether a player's time on the Exempt List will be finite or will continue until the Commissioner deems the exemption should be lifted and the player returned to the Active List."
Does a physical abuse case in the NFL such as Hardy's (or Peterson's) sound like an unusual circumstance? Seems pretty normal. The only unusual circumstance was the witness backing down, but that happened after Goodell put him on the list.
It seems to me Goodell was using the list reactionary to the handling of the Rice case. I'm kind of OK with that, pre-suspending people while all the details come out. What I take issue with is not applying that kind of pre-suspension to the actual suspension.
In other words, Hardy should have gotten off with time served. If Goodell's issue was he got paid: fine, return the pay, but let him play.
Phoenix86
Lifer
- May 21, 2003
- 14,644
- 10
- 81
Depends on what exactly he thinks he's going to appeal on. Right now all we have is "I don't like the judgment so I'm going to appeal". OK, on what grounds?
It could take months, I think we'd be lucky to hear a decision before the end of the year.
The unusual circumstance was his conviction wasn't upheld on appeal, so he wasn't "guilty" and the chargers were dropped. The NFL can't punish someone for having charges dropped, at least not in such a huge way (10 games). Hardy probably will appeal the reduced 2 game suspension, as the worst he can get is 2 games.
Also, I think if the NFL is granted their appeal on the Brady case, Brady will likely settle out of court. It will be a distraction and something like 2 game suspension, on weeks Brady (read as the team) want, to be served before week 10 or something.
Phoenix86
Lifer
- May 21, 2003
- 14,644
- 10
- 81
Peterson.
Precedence.
It's not court of public opinion, that's what Goodell was facing when he handed down the 10 game suspension. Hardy would appeal to an actual court where position doesn't matter so much and precedence does. There's related precedence in 2 cases now.
The question has nothing to do with domestic abuse and everything to do with the use of the exemption list.
Phoenix86
Lifer
- May 21, 2003
- 14,644
- 10
- 81
He was put on the exemption list before the charges were dropped.
He was given the 10 games after the charges were dropped.
What unusual circumstance existed when he was put on the list?
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
- 143
- 106
You guys are silly, this case is far from over. In fact, there is still a good chance the NFL will win the appeal according to ESPN's legal analyst.
I'm more interested how this will affect fantasy prospects. Only person I'm drafting will be Blount, especially with Lafell all fucked up and Edelman one concussion away from becoming the next Wes Welker.
I'm more interested how this will affect fantasy prospects. Only person I'm drafting will be Blount, especially with Lafell all fucked up and Edelman one concussion away from becoming the next Wes Welker.
TheGardener
Golden Member
- Jul 19, 2014
- 1,945
- 33
- 56
I always go to ESPN to get my legal advice. It's worthwhile, even if I have to wait 2 weeks for the ESPN commercial on finding out which team LeBron James is going to land with, is finally over.
The NFL has a great track record in the judicial system. When a judge asks why you (the NFL) believe you are correct, they only have to say "cause".
Brady wanted the appeal to be heard in Minneapolis. The NFL won the advantage of having it moved to NYC. Then they lost the case. So now the NFL has an advantage having quickly filed to have their appeal heard in ... NYC?
I think this whole madness can only end if Brady takes The Donald's advice and sue the NFL and the NFL front office for half a billion dollars for defamation.
The NFL has a great track record in the judicial system. When a judge asks why you (the NFL) believe you are correct, they only have to say "cause".
Brady wanted the appeal to be heard in Minneapolis. The NFL won the advantage of having it moved to NYC. Then they lost the case. So now the NFL has an advantage having quickly filed to have their appeal heard in ... NYC?
I think this whole madness can only end if Brady takes The Donald's advice and sue the NFL and the NFL front office for half a billion dollars for defamation.
First, realize that ESPN has been a NFL mouthpiece for this whole mess.
Second, the judge knew that the NFL would appeal; so he laid out very clearly and cited the reasons why under LEGAL precedence why he shot down the NFL.
Third The appeals court judges will surely have been monitoring what is going on. They have the option to refuse to hear the appeal based on what Berman stated and what the NFL is complaining about Berman's decision.
Berman wrote the decision to try to ensure that there would be no grounds for appeal. He attacked the legal aspects based on Federal law or the suspension and arbitration, not the technical inconsistencies and subjectiveness of the original report.
Had he ruled based on the report, the NFL wold have grounds. but he ruled based on Federal labor laws
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Phoenix86
Lifer
- May 21, 2003
- 14,644
- 10
- 81
These the same guys that were saying it was a slam dunk for the NFL the first time.
ESPN is basically the NFL's mouthpiece when it comes to football talk. Let's take a look at their points.
- The rule that prevents federal judges from interfering with arbitrators' decisions is a powerful doctrine in American law.
- The most comparable decision in the rich history of NFL litigation was the similarly surprising ruling by U.S. District Judge Shira Scheindlin in 2004 that would have allowed Maurice Clarett to enter the draft before the three-year period specified in the collective bargaining agreement.
- The league has been successful in this court on previous occasions.
- the league attorneys thinking: "We just had the wrong judge." If so, why not take the case to three different judges in the higher court
Sorry, this is just fucking comical.
1. The judge was clear, CBA/arbitration cannot violate the law. This isn't a matter of one side not agreeing with the arbitrator. It's one side saying the arbitrator's decision violates the law.
What if an arbitrator decided the best way to resolve the case was to kill someone (using that same wild ass example for a reason)? Does that make it legal? No.
2. Is not comparable at all. Clarett case had -0- to do with shop law. Drawing this comparison means they don't understand the base reason the Judge rejected the case.
3. HA really? That's the best legal ground for an appeal? We want to try another court? BUT JUDGE WE ---RACED--- HERE FIRST!
4. Sour grapes. I'm sure that will fly real well at another court. "Your honor, we're here because we didn't like the other judge's decision, no real reason other than because it went against us."
Wait... You quoted Munson? You didn't google him did you?
Read these first and then see why most on this forum will laugh at you.
BTw. I think he was disbarred for embezzlement as well.
Please, that washed-out POS, DISBARRED, has-been,-never was excuse for what ESPN calls it's "expert" has been DEAD WRONG on every single topic he brings up, FUCK HIM AND FUCK ESPN, TB12=GOAT and to all who were hoping for his demise, KISS THE RINGS BABY...
Great points and Berman was keen on why in other instances the NFL did little or nothing in other examples. A clear one was Minnesota's QB Bridgewater who had to be "generally aware" his hands were now handling a toasty-warm ball on a frigid 8 degree day, no punishments levied, verbal reminder not to do that. You can't go from that to comparing Brady to a "steroid abuser" because he supposedly benefited from .4lb of missing PSI, shit, if you gave me the choice I'd take the toasty-warm balls every time.
ESPN, the site that posted the BS damning the Patriots and support the NFL regardless of truth. Yeah, I am likely to believe their "legal analyst".
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
- 143
- 106
ESPN pays him to write for them but tell us how much you disagree. The desperation in this forum by fanboys like the one above is rich. Writing whatever rigmarole you wrote in all caps only conveys that... you've never actually touched a woman. In fact, next time you write a woman on website Plenty of Desperation, be sure to type in all caps to her about the Pats. She'll be so impressed by your devotion to TB12 (whom you've never met but swear you will someday) that she'll promptly reply with her address to fuck.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
- 651
- 126
The only desperation is coming from you. You keep posting legal analysis from ESPN which has been wrong thru out. This is the same moron that said that the NFL was going to win and it was a slam dunk. Please post something that he's been correct on. You're the retard that post accusations that you believe is the truth but any accusations to counter your weakass crying is false. I guess losers stick together. Cry more!!! :biggrin:
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