"Tom Brady prefer his balls to feel a certain way" - balls underinflated

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should pats lose their spot to colts in the superbowl?

  • yes

  • no

  • RG3 is better than Luck


Results are only viewable after voting.

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
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Jerry also said that if he had access to today's gloves, he might have triple the catches he had. It's apparent that today's gloves > stickem + old gloves. This doesn't absolve him from gaining an illegal advantage at the time though.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12183975
3:30

Also, it'd be interesting to find out how refs test WR gloves. For example, after Beckham's 2 finger catch, I'd be testing the hell out of that glove. Of course, it doesn't behoove the NFL to do such testing because more offense = a better product. Just like deflated balls would = a better product. I bet the NFL is just as lax for glove testing.

lol, making excuses for Jerry's cheating. Now i've seen it all from you. I honestly don't give a fuck about Jerry's opinion, especially since we don't even have all the facts yet. This is the same jerry rice that downplayed randy moss breaking his TD record. It's pretty obvious that he doesn't want other teams to overshadow his legacy. He's become a bitter old man.
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,158
59
91
How do we know the officials even checked the balls?

Also, how do we know what environment the Colts' balls were inflated in? We assume NE's were inside, because they were at home, but the Colts' transported theirs, so it's likely they got cold.

Further, nobody has said the Colts' balls didn't lose any pressure....just that they were "in spec". They could have been barely in spec, for all we know, if they started off on the high side. And if the Pats' balls started off at the low end, then clearly they'd be out of spec after going outside.

Fact is, we just don't know, and the other fact is, it didn't make a damned bit of difference, anyway. The Pats blew the game out in the 2nd half, when the balls had been pumped back up.
And deflated balls certainly didn't keep Indy from scoring only 7 pts.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
143
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How do we know the officials even checked the balls?

Also, how do we know what environment the Colts' balls were inflated in? We assume NE's were inside, because they were at home, but the Colts' transported theirs, so it's likely they got cold.

Further, nobody has said the Colts' balls didn't lose any pressure....just that they were "in spec". They could have been barely in spec, for all we know, if they started off on the high side. And if the Pats' balls started off at the low end, then clearly they'd be out of spec after going outside.

Fact is, we just don't know, and the other fact is, it didn't make a damned bit of difference, anyway. The Pats blew the game out in the 2nd half, when the balls had been pumped back up.
And deflated balls certainly didn't keep Indy from scoring only 7 pts.

Yes, the only way the Colts could have been in spec is if they were overinflated severely or kept under blankets in a heater on the sideline or the refs measured wrong. Even if overinflated, not sure how the refs could bungle such a measurement which means it would have had to happen after the initial measurement.

The balls were stored in the same place, that's how the ballboy took both batches with him to the bathroom. The bottom line is that the Pats are trying to absolve any blame by throwing their ballboy under the bus when the Pats possibly ordered him to deflate them in the bathroom. They said it was possible for him to do 12 in 90 seconds, so who knows.

Now the NFL is contacting a physicist at University of Columbia. lmao
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story...iversity-physics-department-deflategate-probe
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
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lol, making excuses for Jerry's cheating. Now i've seen it all from you. I honestly don't give a fuck about Jerry's opinion, especially since we don't even have all the facts yet. This is the same jerry rice that downplayed randy moss breaking his TD record. It's pretty obvious that he doesn't want other teams to overshadow his legacy. He's become a bitter old man.

lawl, Rice' legacy = greater than brady and belicheat combined now and even if they won 2 more titles.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Welcome to 3 days ago. That still doesn't explain how how the Colts were still in spec and the Pats weren't. 13.5 - 1.8 = less than 12.5, for the millionth time. Unless Indy's balls were kept in heated box with blankets on the sidelines, or they severely overinflated their balls at the start of the game, or the refs didn't measure right. This is why there's a major investigation.

Were the Colts at 13.5 at the start? Or, was it 14.5?
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
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Were the Colts at 13.5 at the start? Or, was it 14.5?

It could have been 14.5 if the refs measured wrong or the Colts added air after the initial measurement 2:15 before the game (shady ballboy in bathroom?). The numbers don't add up if claiming a -1.8psi drop during the game for both teams.

If refs measured right (13.5), then the armchair scientists are wrong in claiming a -1.8 drop caused by game conditions.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
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Welcome to 3 days ago. That still doesn't explain how how the Colts were still in spec and the Pats weren't. 13.5 - 1.8 = less than 12.5, for the millionth time. Unless Indy's balls were kept in heated box with blankets on the sidelines, or they severely overinflated their balls at the start of the game, or the refs didn't measure right. This is why there's a major investigation.

You think you're so smart with that simple math but all it really shows is that you ignorantly assume those were the only factors. HA! Did you forget that the Colts prefer a tight ball? If I take a can of compressed air that is room temperature and decompress it, what happens? At room temperature, the contents of that can had the same temperature as an equivalent size of the air outside it, but it occupies MUCH MORE volume when you decompress it, which is why you get frost from cans of compressed air. Every idiot knows this, which is why YOU should know this and those inflating the ball to their QB's preference knows this. If you want to inflate to maximum spec, you must compensate for the PSI being temporarily increased by the increased temperature of the compressed air (now well ABOVE room temperature). Duh.

The temperature in which they were inflated and the amount of time they had to cool off (relative temperature increases when you inflate) affect it GREATLY. To satisfy their QB's preference for deflated balls, the Pats would have likely inflated indoors with hot normal temperature air just before handing them off to be inspected. Then the balls would be hot and have more PSI to lose as it drops to the outdoor temperature. The Colts preferred theirs tight, so they would inflate with cold air outside if they could help it, well in advance, and top it off to the high end of the spec again after the ball cooled to the cold ambient temps outdoors.

Only an idiot would assume that their 13.5 was equivalent and comparable to the Pats' 12.5. Guess what that makes the "13.5-1.8 = <12.5" crowd?! You don't know how they were stored before or during the game nor do you know how long it took to measure them again (could have warmed back up indoors) nor do you know how soon they were inflated prior to initial inspection nor do you know what temperature the air they used to inflate it was. If you had a clue, you wouldn't DARE bring up the stupid "Well why were the Colts' balls in spec?" argument.

Note: I hate football and do not care about either team. I care about stupidity bandwagons, and BOY do I see a lot of those around this issue! :rolleyes:

It really comes down to this: BOTH teams knew the cold would drop the PSI and BOTH teams compensated to get the ball closer to their preference. Simple. When you ask why the Colts' balls were still in spec, it's because they COMPENSATED exactly as I described. Knowing the cold weather works against their QB's preference, they'd be stupid not to, but it doesn't even need to be deliberate if their balls were simply filled and presented differently as I described. That's why it isn't worth arguing over and the argument that their balls should also be out of spec is stupid.
 
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Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
lawl, Rice' legacy = greater than brady and belicheat combined now and even if they won 2 more titles.

*Makes excuses for Jerry Rice cheating, still thinks he has a coherent point*

You are wrong on just about everything in this thread, give up, you've gotten your ass beaten so many times it must be bright red right now.
 

clok1966

Golden Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,395
13
76
This is such a non-event. I feel for sorry for Brady, that this is going to take away some of his thunder.

Sad but true, cheating in sports with the money made now is a Non event. In the past you got caught cheating you where out, no question (black socks) then in the last 20 years or so when betting and sports became massive (and massive is to small a word) money makers, changing outcomes of games after the fact just wont happen, players who get 5-10 million guaranteed wont be gone no matter what they do (kill, beat, rape, enhancement drugs).

If they banned cheaters now I doubt any team would be ok.. but I must admit when one team keeps getting caught you gotta wonder a bit. How many things are they not catching?

pat have been one of the best teams no question about it, add a "special" edge they can be close to unbeatable. But in this case Cheating didn't win that game , but when did we forgive cheating because the other team sucked? I love the NFL, but its getting to be to much money in it, and money corrupts.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,755
6,632
126
SP33Demon's butthurtness is what keeps me coming back to this hilarious thread.

please don't stop SP33Demon, keep it going.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
143
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*Makes excuses for Jerry Rice cheating, still thinks he has a coherent point*

You are wrong on just about everything in this thread, give up, you've gotten your ass beaten so many times it must be bright red right now.

Aw, the mental midget forgot how to read. /snicker
"This doesn't absolve him from gaining an illegal advantage at the time though."
^Pop quiz: Who said that? /snicker
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
143
106
You think you're so smart with that simple math but all it really shows is that you ignorantly assume those were the only factors. HA! Did you forget that the Colts prefer a tight ball? If I take a can of compressed air that is room temperature and decompress it, what happens? At room temperature, the contents of that can had the same temperature as an equivalent size of the air outside it, but it occupies MUCH MORE volume when you decompress it, which is why you get frost from cans of compressed air. Every idiot knows this, which is why YOU should know this and those inflating the ball to their QB's preference knows this. If you want to inflate to maximum spec, you must compensate for the PSI being temporarily increased by the increased temperature of the compressed air (now well ABOVE room temperature). Duh.

The temperature in which they were inflated and the amount of time they had to cool off (relative temperature increases when you inflate) affect it GREATLY. To satisfy their QB's preference for deflated balls, the Pats would have likely inflated indoors with hot normal temperature air just before handing them off to be inspected. Then the balls would be hot and have more PSI to lose as it drops to the outdoor temperature. The Colts preferred theirs tight, so they would inflate with cold air outside if they could help it, well in advance, and top it off to the high end of the spec again after the ball cooled to the cold ambient temps outdoors.
<snip>

Your assumptions that the Colts preferred theirs "tight" is a flat out lie.
Luck didn't say whether he had a preference of how a football is inflated.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ew-luck-things-can-be-blown-out-of-proportion

There is zero evidence of how the Colts like their ball, only in your toddler imagination is it "tight". Come back when you have valid evidence, "HA!". :rolleyes:
 

Ban Bot

Senior member
Jun 1, 2010
796
1
76
90 seconds to take each ball out, deflate each one 2 psi each and then leave the bathroom? I think that is a stretch.

90 seconds is feasible.

I already gave my opinion on what happened (don't think the ball boy used a needle) it seems if a ball boy did this every week he would have time to deflate the balls and take a quick piss. Impressive!

Or gross as it wouldn't be enough times to wash his hands D:
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
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Your assumptions that the Colts preferred theirs "tight" is a flat out lie.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ew-luck-things-can-be-blown-out-of-proportion

There is zero evidence of how the Colts like their ball, only in your toddler imagination is it "tight". Come back when you have valid evidence, "HA!". :rolleyes:

Read your own quote: He didn't say whether or not he has a preference. He then gave a cop-out answer. It does not mean he has no preference. Even if he doesn't, it makes sense to inflate to the high-side of spec if you are going to be playing in the cold and want it to stay within regulation.

English: I speak it.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,824
1,583
136

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,824
1,583
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Welcome to 3 days ago. That still doesn't explain how how the Colts were still in spec and the Pats weren't. 13.5 - 1.8 = less than 12.5, for the millionth time. Unless Indy's balls were kept in heated box with blankets on the sidelines, or they severely overinflated their balls at the start of the game, or the refs didn't measure right. This is why there's a major investigation.

So, what are you saying? That science is wrong?
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
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Read your own quote: He didn't say whether or not he has a preference. He then gave a cop-out answer. It does not mean he has no preference. Even if he doesn't, it makes sense to inflate to the high-side of spec if you are going to be playing in the cold and want it to stay within regulation.

English: I speak it.

You made a dubious claim that the Colts liked the ball "tight" when that goes against what science says is helpful: lighter balls = higher velocity throws and easier to grip. Why would the Colts want to make it tougher on themselves and their receivers? That makes no sense, so your speculation that the Colts like a tight ball is BS without evidence and Luck isn't outright claiming to like a tight ball either (like ARod), which probably suggests he likes it deflated.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
143
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So, what are you saying? That science is wrong?
Science is correct. We just don't know what happened in between initial inspection and the next time the ball was weighed. Either way it'll be good to get an official interpretation from Columbia and put an end to the armchair "science".
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
You made a dubious claim that the Colts liked the ball "tight" when that goes against what science says is helpful: lighter balls = higher velocity throws and easier to grip. Why would the Colts want to make it tougher on themselves and their receivers? That makes no sense, so your speculation that the Colts like a tight ball is BS without evidence and Luck isn't outright claiming to like a tight ball either (like ARod), which probably suggests he likes it deflated.

No. I was simply sure I read here or somewhere that a rival quarterback involved specifically stated that he likes it tight just like Brady said he likes it deflated. An over-inflated ball is preferred for kickoff because it will bounce more and be harder to hold onto. If it wasn't the Colts' QB then it was someone else they were talking about and your point of "why would he?" is still invalid. All you need to know is that it is tailored to QB preference and SOME QBs prefer a tight ball. Period.

Edit:
Right here.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37106396&postcount=353

So I was wrong about which QB is confirmed to like tight balls, but now you know that SOME do and the Colts' QB deliberately abstained from admitting his preference WITHOUT SAYING THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE. Anyone with half a brain knows that this leaves WAY too much open to draw conclusions from... OTHER than that it's very easy for their balls to remain in spec to suit their preference. Happy?
 
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Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
4,464
596
126
Wait, the NFL is just now contacting a physicist? Meaning they didn't consult one before their sting. Jesus. It is a fact that the balls would have had a lower PSI if measured at halftime. Are you telling me the NFL had no understanding of that?

I'm sure the NFL understands something like that and decided long ago it doesn't really matter a whole lot, hence letting the teams provide their own somewhat customized footballs.

I'm surprised they made this a public issue unless it was some misguided attempt at getting people to talk about football before the big game.