"Tom Brady prefer his balls to feel a certain way" - balls underinflated

[purbeast0]

if ur not cheating, ur not tryin!!1!

 

[KeithTalent]

Yeah, my team sucks at cheating, that's why we never win.

KT

 

[purbeast0]

Yeah, my team sucks at cheating, that's why we never win.

KT

i wish the redskins would cheat and get away with it. maybe they could reach at least a whopping 5 wins

 

[dainthomas]

Yeah, like all of those bogus PED suspensions.

KT

Funny. Although at least one he had a prescription but didn't submit the right forms to the league or some crap.

 

[emperus]

One word: Spygate. I bet you have some silly justification rattling around the peanuts in your brain. To get caught doing such a thing requires blatant idiocy, so blatant that the nfl had to burn the evidence. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that as well.

Avogadro's Law is involved in certain PSI calculations, including this one.

You do know that most teams did the same thing. But you would have to be a rational person to acknowledge that. I bet it's easier just to call the Pats cheaters. Like Belichick said they filmed signals that 80,000 people saw. To a wiki search on Spygate, it might enlighten you.

 

[unixwizzard]

As a Raiders fan I hate the Pats more than anyone. Every time the tuck rule comes up I want to stomp on a baby chick. Tom Brady is the douchiest douche that ever douched and Belicheat is a convicted cheater.

:awe: :awe:

 

[BudAshes]

:awe: :awe:

 

[BUTCH1]

As a Raiders fan I hate the Pats more than anyone. Every time the tuck rule comes up I want to stomp on a baby chick. Tom Brady is the douchiest douche that ever douched and Belicheat is a convicted cheater. That being said, inflate gate is the stupidest shit ever. No one gave a fuck about the inflation level of the balls until now, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if belichik came up with this entire "controvery" in order to piss his team off enough to handle the physicality of Seattle.

I can understand people being suspicious of the Pat's after the spygate story broke but your hate should be directed at Walt Coleman who was the one who called the now infamous "tuck" rule during that game, neither Brady or BB lobbied anyone to change the ruling on the field which was a fumble. IMPO it was a fumble but sometimes the ref's don't get it right. Case in point, back in the '77 playoff's the Pat's squashed a 4th down Raiders play and would have taken over on downs but wait a sec, a "roughing the passer" penalty was called because Sugar bear Hamilton's arm brushed Stabler's helmet on the play. Mind you this was the '70's and roughing the passer usually meant that a real mug-job had taken place, given a new set of downs the "Snake" Stabler got the Raiders into the EZ for the winning score, I call it even.

 

[zinfamous]

I can understand people being suspicious of the Pat's after the spygate story broke but your hate should be directed at Walt Coleman who was the one who called the now infamous "tuck" rule during that game, neither Brady or BB lobbied anyone to change the ruling on the field which was a fumble. IMPO it was a fumble but sometimes the ref's don't get it right. Case in point, back in the '77 playoff's the Pat's squashed a 4th down Raiders play and would have taken over on downs but wait a sec, a "roughing the passer" penalty was called because Sugar bear Hamilton's arm brushed Stabler's helmet on the play. Mind you this was the '70's and roughing the passer usually meant that a real mug-job had taken place, given a new set of downs the "Snake" Stabler got the Raiders into the EZ for the winning score, I call it even.

I think the Pats hate really started here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAwOLaZUh-k

Just shadiness in all sectors of that organization. I'm not saying it's intended, or directed by the Pats, it's just that you have a culture of fans/people/staff (basically just superfans that can't imagine anything better in life than working the grounds/locker room/stands for their beloved football team), willing to do anything to give them an edge, or ignore certain shadiness when it comes to supporting them.

Real or perceived, the rest of the NFL world has a colorful history to draw from when it comes to general Patriots shenanigans.

And yeah, the Tuck is what did it for me--And I know that is on the officials. And I also know that it is probably the correct interpretation of the rule, at the time, even though it is horseshit. I'm not even a Raiders fan, but I dislike the Pats since that drive, for whatever reason. I know Brady really has nothing to do with how that was called; but I hate him for his lucky bullshit that goes his way time and time again.

 

[BUTCH1]

I think the Pats hate really started here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAwOLaZUh-k

Just shadiness in all sectors of that organization. I'm not saying it's intended, or directed by the Pats, it's just that you have a culture of fans/people/staff (basically just superfans that can't imagine anything better in life than working the grounds/locker room/stands for their beloved football team), willing to do anything to give them an edge, or ignore certain shadiness when it comes to supporting them.

Real or perceived, the rest of the NFL world has a colorful history to draw from when it comes to general Patriots shenanigans.

And yeah, the Tuck is what did it for me--And I know that is on the officials. And I also know that it is probably the correct interpretation of the rule, at the time, even though it is horseshit. I'm not even a Raiders fan, but I dislike the Pats since that drive, for whatever reason. I know Brady really has nothing to do with how that was called; but I hate him for his lucky bullshit that goes his way time and time again.

Well not EVERY time, in the 18-1 season he needed Asante Samuel to catch an game-sealing interception that went right through his hands after Eli, under tremendous pressure, just heaved it up for grabs. He also needed Welker in the next Giants SB to make a catch that would have had the Pat's with a 1st down, in easy FG range for a 2 possession lead with 2:20 left, Wes as we all know dropped it. The snowplow game had Shula in a state of rage which we all thought was LOL, in any event the Dolphins dumped the Pat's out of the playoff's a few weeks later. The plow, with the brush still attached is on display in Patriot place and it's operator, Mark Henderson, on work-release from a local prison became a local legend..

 

[emperus]

I can understand people being suspicious of the Pat's after the spygate story broke but your hate should be directed at Walt Coleman who was the one who called the now infamous "tuck" rule during that game, neither Brady or BB lobbied anyone to change the ruling on the field which was a fumble. IMPO it was a fumble but sometimes the ref's don't get it right. Case in point, back in the '77 playoff's the Pat's squashed a 4th down Raiders play and would have taken over on downs but wait a sec, a "roughing the passer" penalty was called because Sugar bear Hamilton's arm brushed Stabler's helmet on the play. Mind you this was the '70's and roughing the passer usually meant that a real mug-job had taken place, given a new set of downs the "Snake" Stabler got the Raiders into the EZ for the winning score, I call it even.

The refs got that call right. By the letter of the rule (The Tuck Rule) it was not a fumble. The problem is (even as a Pats fan) the Tuck Rule was terrible and has since been changed. But everyone has misdirected anger. Blame the NFL or whomever initially came up with that Rule.

One thing people don't know is that that wasn't the first time the Tuck Rule was used that season. In fact it was used against that Pats earlier on in the season.

 

[emperus]

Blandino added that the specific air pressure in each football, which is required to be between 12.5 and 13.5, is not documented. The balls are simply either approved or disapproved pre-game.

In the news conference, Blandino said, "We did review what happened pre-game. From everything that we reviewed and all their information we had, was the balls were properly tested and marked prior to the game. Then [there] was an issue that was brought up during the first half. A football came into question and then a decision was made to test the football."

Said Vinovich, "We test them. It's 12.5 to 13.5. We put 13 in every ball. ... Dean tested a couple in the office and had one underinflated and one to specs, and you really couldn't tell the difference unless you actually sat there and tried to squeeze the thing or did some extraordinary thing. If somoene just tossed you the ball, especially in 20 degree weather, you're going to pretty much play with the ball. They are going to be hard. You're not going to notice the difference."

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...t-and-document-football-air-pressure#comments

So, there are no pregame documented temperatures, and no proof that the Refs actually checked the balls.. Right.. Sounds like a really great Sting. They better have a lot more to justify this investigation.

 

[Chaotic42]

Someone at the grocery store is awesome:

 

[TheSlamma]

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.co...iots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

Buttholes

 

[Phokus]

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.co...iots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

Buttholes

Who, the Patriots or the people you linked who used bad assumptions, bad statistics, and even completely wrong data?

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/your-guide-to-deflate-gateballghazi-related-statistical-analyses/

http://regressing.deadspin.com/why-...e-patriots-fumbles-are-mos-1681805710/+kylenw

http://drewfustin.com/2015/01/27/patriots-fumble-comments/

 

[Ns1]

great counter argument here:

http://drewfustin.com/2015/01/27/patriots-fumble-comments/

 

[Ban Bot]

So, there are no pregame documented temperatures, and no proof that the Refs actually checked the balls.. Right.. Sounds like a really great Sting. They better have a lot more to justify this investigation.

Robert Kraft & Co. need to stop acting like martyrs. You know what justifies the investigation? 11 of 12 balls used by the Patriots were well out of spec in the AFCCG. End of story. The NFL's job is to maintain the integrity of the game on the field and assuming this is an honest mistake the NFL still needs to know why and set parameters to remedy.

Need more? 0 of their opponents were out of spec. If that were not enough the league received complaints from two previous games concerning the balls that Patriots were using. The integrity of the game is important. Even though the deflated balls were likely a negligible issue the league has a responsibility to investigate and remedy. The idea the NFL owes Bob, Bill, and Tom some apology is why so few feel bad for them. All Bob had to do was say, "We fully support the NFL's investigation. Integrity of the game is important to all of us. I am fully confident my team followed the rules and the condition of the balls is, as the data we gave the NFL, just a byproduct of the weather. We will let them finish their report and accept any guidance to avoid future issues that may impact the specs of the game ball as I am sure the other 31 teams will review their processes as well." Haha good laugh thinking Kraft would say something like that.

No one would be complaining if Miami's field was being investigated because someone accidentally used meters instead of yards for their field hashes. It would necessitate an investigation and remedy if it was discovered as well as a review of how the mistake occurred. Especially as such a mistake would impact the game.

 

[Phokus]

Robert Kraft & Co. need to stop acting like martyrs. You know what justifies the investigation? 11 of 12 balls used by the Patriots were well out of spec in the AFCCG. End of story. The NFL's job is to maintain the integrity of the game on the field and assuming this is an honest mistake the NFL still needs to know why and set parameters to remedy.

Need more? 0 of their opponents were out of spec. If that were not enough the league received complaints from two previous games concerning the balls that Patriots were using. The integrity of the game is important. Even though the deflated balls were likely a negligible issue the league has a responsibility to investigate and remedy. The idea the NFL owes Bob, Bill, and Tom some apology is why so few feel bad for them. All Bob had to do was say, "We fully support the NFL's investigation. Integrity of the game is important to all of us. I am fully confident my team followed the rules and the condition of the balls is, as the data we gave the NFL, just a byproduct of the weather. We will let them finish their report and accept any guidance to avoid future issues that may impact the specs of the game ball as I am sure the other 31 teams will review their processes as well." Haha good laugh thinking Kraft would say something like that.

No one would be complaining if Miami's field was being investigated because someone accidentally used meters instead of yards for their field hashes. It would necessitate an investigation and remedy if it was discovered as well as a review of how the mistake occurred. Especially as such a mistake would impact the game.

The reason why Robert Kraft is mad as hell is because the NFL is intentionally leaking information to the media and the WAY they have handled the investigation.

Oh, btw, looks like most scientists are coming around to the environmental explanation of the loss of PSI

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/s...may-have-science-on-their-side-after-all.html

 

[Ban Bot]

great counter argument here:

That was a well thought out critique. That is what the press should be doing--presenting the issue, propose reasons and then evaluate whether they are legitimate.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Robert Kraft & Co. need to stop acting like martyrs. You know what justifies the investigation? 11 of 12 balls used by the Patriots were well out of spec in the AFCCG. End of story. The NFL's job is to maintain the integrity of the game on the field and assuming this is an honest mistake the NFL still needs to know why and set parameters to remedy.

Need more? 0 of their opponents were out of spec. If that were not enough the league received complaints from two previous games concerning the balls that Patriots were using. The integrity of the game is important. Even though the deflated balls were likely a negligible issue the league has a responsibility to investigate and remedy. The idea the NFL owes Bob, Bill, and Tom some apology is why so few feel bad for them. All Bob had to do was say, "We fully support the NFL's investigation. Integrity of the game is important to all of us. I am fully confident my team followed the rules and the condition of the balls is, as the data we gave the NFL, just a byproduct of the weather. We will let them finish their report and accept any guidance to avoid future issues that may impact the specs of the game ball as I am sure the other 31 teams will review their processes as well." Haha good laugh thinking Kraft would say something like that.

No one would be complaining if Miami's field was being investigated because someone accidentally used meters instead of yards for their field hashes. It would necessitate an investigation and remedy if it was discovered as well as a review of how the mistake occurred. Especially as such a mistake would impact the game.

Integrity of the game? Like allowing under-inflated balls to be used for a whole half of the AFC Championship game? Why not inspect them right before the game started? Why were the psi of the balls not documented before and at half? And video it?

Why not penalize Minnesota and Carolina for heating balls on the sidelines during a game?

And complaints? You know the Baltimore complaint was from their punter and kicker on the kicking balls which are used by both teams, right?

 

[emperus]

Robert Kraft & Co. need to stop acting like martyrs. You know what justifies the investigation? 11 of 12 balls used by the Patriots were well out of spec in the AFCCG. End of story. The NFL's job is to maintain the integrity of the game on the field and assuming this is an honest mistake the NFL still needs to know why and set parameters to remedy.

Need more? 0 of their opponents were out of spec. If that were not enough the league received complaints from two previous games concerning the balls that Patriots were using. The integrity of the game is important. Even though the deflated balls were likely a negligible issue the league has a responsibility to investigate and remedy. The idea the NFL owes Bob, Bill, and Tom some apology is why so few feel bad for them. All Bob had to do was say, "We fully support the NFL's investigation. Integrity of the game is important to all of us. I am fully confident my team followed the rules and the condition of the balls is, as the data we gave the NFL, just a byproduct of the weather. We will let them finish their report and accept any guidance to avoid future issues that may impact the specs of the game ball as I am sure the other 31 teams will review their processes as well." Haha good laugh thinking Kraft would say something like that.

No one would be complaining if Miami's field was being investigated because someone accidentally used meters instead of yards for their field hashes. It would necessitate an investigation and remedy if it was discovered as well as a review of how the mistake occurred. Especially as such a mistake would impact the game.

The public should not have known about any investigation until it was completed and fully released to the public. Someone had a motivation and agenda to selective leak parts of an ongoing investigation to the media.

What's funny is that of 0 of the Colts balls were out of spec and the balls were measured immediately at half time. That meant that the COLTS balls were over inflated. It is an absolute fact that all the balls would have been 1 - 1.8 pounds lower at Half Time. That means either the NFL adjusted for the loss in pressure for all the balls when doing the half time measurements or the COLTS balls were overinflated to not have been out of spec.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Deflation Experiments Show Patriots May Have a Point After All

 

[TheSlamma]

The reason why Robert Kraft is mad as hell is because the NFL is intentionally leaking information to the media and the WAY they have handled the investigation.

Oh, btw, looks like most scientists are coming around to the environmental explanation of the loss of PSI

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/s...may-have-science-on-their-side-after-all.html

Seriously with your bias it's time you pull away from the thread. This team is infallible in your eyes

 

[SP33Demon]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/your-guide-to-deflate-gateballghazi-related-statistical-analyses/

In addition, he looked at the six players featured in Michael Salfino’s Wall Street Journal article based on Sharp’s work, finding that their difference in fumbling was statistically significant. Of those six players (Danny Amendola, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead, Wes Welker, Brandon LaFell and LeGarrette Blount), four were common to Sng’s dataset, but both analyses found a 23 percent increase in fumbling while playing for teams other than New England.

23% isn't as earth shattering as the original 88% but it falls within the realm of a slight deflated football advantage since 2007 - 88%, in retrospect, is a bit too much for such a slight advantage.

 

[CZroe]

...
What's funny is that of 0 of the Colts balls were out of spec and the balls were measured immediately at half time. That meant that the COLTS balls were over inflated. It is an absolute fact that all the balls would have been 1 - 1.8 pounds lower at Half Time. That means either the NFL adjusted for the loss in pressure for all the balls when doing the half time measurements or the COLTS balls were overinflated to not have been out of spec.

Absolutely NOT true. While it is true that they were exposed to the same conditions after being inspected by officials, there are many factors leading up to that you have failed to consider. For one: they could have already cooled or been exposed to those conditions before their initial inspection before the game. Hell, they could have even been topped off again once cooled. They could have been at the opposite end of the range (13.5 PSI). They could have been filled with cool air in the first place and allowed more time to cool before inspection (pressurization with environmental air proportionally raises temperature relative to the environmental air outside).

The Pats, preferring a ball on the low end of the range, would have done the opposite, such as inflating to the low end of the range (12.5 PSI) while warm and keeping them warm until pre-game inspection, filling them with warm air to begin with and not allowing much cooling time before inspection.

I can't believe how many times I have had to explain this. Does no one think critically anymore?! The world isn't as simple as you want it to be. We know that the rules were changed in 2006 to allow them to tailor the balls to the QB's preference and this is the kind of tailoring they were talking about. Duh.