"Tom Brady prefer his balls to feel a certain way" - balls underinflated

[brainhulk]

Can a mod pls create a new poll: Is the punishment handed out to Tom Brady and the Patriots for cheating appropriate?

1) yes
2) no, too excessive
3) too lenient

 

[norseamd]

Can a mod pls create a new poll: Is the punishment handed out to Tom Brady and the Patriots for cheating appropriate?

1) yes
2) no, too excessive
3) too lenient

Well if so then this poll deserves to get recorded for the final tallies.

 

[norseamd]

yes

93 38.59%

 

[norseamd]

no

118 48.96%

 

[norseamd]

RG3 is better than Luck

30 12.45%

 

[brainhulk]

 

[Fingolfin269]

I'm assuming the answer is, "Because it's the Pats. Because history man..."

But one issue I have with the NFL is lack of consistency. Similar situation. Vastly different punishment.

From MMQB (earlier in the week):

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/11/dante-fowler-jaguars-tom-brady-deflategate-nfl-peter-king/2/

As Mike Reiss of ESPN Boston pointed out Sunday, there have been two recent violations regarding fair play with footballs. One happened last November, when TV cameras at the Minnesota-Carolina game in frigid Minneapolis caught footballs being warmed up by sideline heaters. That’s a rules violation, but the teams were simply warned not to do it again.

That happened this season and the punishment was a warning not to do it again.

 

[cabri]

Last year the Jags caught the Colts ball boys with needles.

Nothing was done.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

I think he just handed the NFLPA a huge win. I don't think Joe Public is going to think it's fair that the person who handed out the fine gets to hear an appeal of it. I can't imagine what the NFL is thinking on this.

hahahahahahahahaha
good joke.

wait.. you're not joking?

the guy who handed the 4 game suspension to Brady is going to be the one to decide on the appeal?

I can see a scenario where Goodell actually increases the penalty.

hm.. did the PAts also appeal their fine and loss of 2 draft picks?

Goodell didn't hand out the suspension, that's why he's able to decide on the appeal, he learned his lesson from Vilma and bountygate and this time around someone else was appointed to figure out the punishment.

 

[lupi]

I'm assuming the answer is, "Because it's the Pats. Because history man..."

But one issue I have with the NFL is lack of consistency. Similar situation. Vastly different punishment.

From MMQB (earlier in the week):

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/11/dante-fowler-jaguars-tom-brady-deflategate-nfl-peter-king/2/



That happened this season and the punishment was a warning not to do it again.

And as has been said numerous times even though most act like it has not been announced, most of the penalties are the result of repeat performer/failure to participate.

 

[JEDI]

Goodell didn't hand out the suspension, that's why he's able to decide on the appeal, he learned his lesson from Vilma and bountygate and this time around someone else was appointed to figure out the punishment.

wait.. so who recommened the 4game suspension?
and the $1M fine and loss of draft picks?

 

[emperus]

Goodell didn't hand out the suspension, that's why he's able to decide on the appeal, he learned his lesson from Vilma and bountygate and this time around someone else was appointed to figure out the punishment.

I'm not sure any court will buy that. I believe Goodell put out a statement saying to the effect that "we deliberated long and hard about the punishment".

 

[dank69]

 

[Fingolfin269]

And as has been said numerous times even though most act like it has not been announced, most of the penalties are the result of repeat performer/failure to participate.

Said by... ? People on a forum or King Roger?

(Not a Pats fan)

 

[The Boston Dangler]

wait.. so who recommened the 4game suspension?
and the $1M fine and loss of draft picks?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...t-on-delegation-of-authority-to-troy-vincent/

The language of Article 46 implies that the Commissioner will take the action against Brady, not Troy Vincent or anyone else. And it’s obvious that Vincent made the decision. Indeed, Goodell made it clear from the moment that Wells report was issued that “Troy Vincent and his team will consider what steps to take in light of the report.”

Some believe Goodell delegated the decision to Vincent to create a buffer aimed at insulating Goodell against the wrath of Patriots owner Robert Kraft. Regardless, the union will argue that the plain language of Article 46 required Goodell to make the initial decision, and that he was prevented from delegating it to anyone else.

 

[emperus]

From ESPN blogger Mike Reiss:

Poking holes in the science: By pointing out the Wells report used referee Walt Anderson's best recollection in all areas except one (determining which gauge he used to measure the Patriots' footballs before the game), the club highlighted how significant that was. Had the Wells report accepted Anderson's best recollection that he used the "logo gauge" before the game on Patriots footballs -- which it did for the Colts' footballs -- it would have proved that basic science fully explains the drop in psi. This point of Wellsreportcontext.com was very strong. Likewise, revisiting the scene in which McNally took the footballs from the officials locker room -- walking by numerous league officials in the process after hearing word the game would soon be starting -- was effective in countering the narrative that McNally sneakily took the footballs without consent.

 

[emperus]

Interesting point. Brady used to set the balls to 12.75-12.85 before that 2014 Jets game where the officials set them to 16 PSI.

Prior to the Jets game in 2014, Mr. Jastremski set the footballs at 12.75-12.85 for Mr. Brady’s pre-game inspection and selection, since that is the range that had been used by Mr. Jastremski’s predecessor. Curiously, the report does not credit this statement, although no witness or other evidence contradicted it, and apparently no game official reported that, in any games prior to the Jets 2014 game, footballs from the Patriots did not routinely arrive at the Officials’ Locker Room precisely as Mr. Jastremski described. Nonetheless, the report states disbelief to the statement because it does not support the report’s assumption that Mr. Brady cared about psi levels long before the Jets game over-inflation fiasco. The report discredits this information – about which there was no reason to lie and which could have been checked in all events — solely because of (i) Mr. McNally’s May 2014 text reference to himself as the “deflator” (which had nothing to do with what psi the footballs were set at for Mr. Brady’s inspection); (ii) Mr. Brady’s involvement in the 2006 Rule change (which, as explained elsewhere, dealt with tactile feel and football consistency, not psi levels); and (iii) Mr. Brady’s “apparent longstanding preference for footballs inflated to the low end of the permissible range” (although setting footballs at 12.75-85 is not much different from setting them at 12.6, which is what Mr. Jastremski did following the very first time Mr. Brady focused on actual psi numbers). In short, not “crediting” the evidence that footballs were historically set at 12.75-85 demonstrates mostly how the report lets its interpretation of the texts then control how it views all other evidence. In all events, there is no question that Mr. Jastremski had to deflate footballs a second time just before Mr. Brady’s selection. To get them to the desired (and permissible) level, one adds air and then releases the air to the desired psi. After mid-season in 2014 — i.e., after the Jets game issues with vastly over-inflated footballs — he set them at 12.6 for Mr. Brady’s inspection and selection — again adding air and releasing it to get down to the desired psi. So deflation of footballs cannot be presumed to refer to post-referee inspection conduct. Indeed, Mr. Jastremski does not even have possession of the footballs once they go to the Officials’ Locker Room for pre-game inspection.

 

[Imported]

So.. Goodell is going to be called as a witness. Yet he will also preside over the appeal.. Lol

 

[Fingolfin269]

So.. Goodell is going to be called as a witness. Yet he will also preside over the appeal.. Lol

I now call to the stand... myself...

I will therefore excuse myself from presiding over the examination of myself.

 

[Phoenix86]

So.. Goodell is going to be called as a witness. Yet he will also preside over the appeal.. Lol

It forces Goodell out from presiding over the appeal because now he has a conflict of interest. He did so much to stay OUT of this position so he could preside over it, had someone else investigate/punish, but smart maneuvering still got him out of it.

It makes sense too given the argument they will make, that the NFL was setting up a sting. That means Goodell is a valid witness, what did he know and when. What actions did he take or not take.

There's some big issues with Brady's defense.

1. If you're claiming it was a setup, there has to be a crime. You can't say "you knew about, didn't do anything so you could catch us" while saying you did nothing wrong. Someone who is innocent doesn't complain about a sting operation.

2. The ball handlers were apparently fired (suspended) a week before Brady's punishment.

Think about that for a minute. If you didn't cheat, or try, why did these guys get punished?

3. Pats punished the people with intimate knowledge of situation. There was a technicality why Wells couldn't talk to these guys a second time, now that they are appealing the punishment it opens the door to ask these guys more questions. People who were just fired from the Pats.

Oops.

 

[BUTCH1]

It forces Goodell out from presiding over the appeal because now he has a conflict of interest. He did so much to stay OUT of this position so he could preside over it, had someone else investigate/punish, but smart maneuvering still got him out of it.

It makes sense too given the argument they will make, that the NFL was setting up a sting. That means Goodell is a valid witness, what did he know and when. What actions did he take or not take.

There's some big issues with Brady's defense.

1. If you're claiming it was a setup, there has to be a crime. You can't say "you knew about, didn't do anything so you could catch us" while saying you did nothing wrong. Someone who is innocent doesn't complain about a sting operation.

2. The ball handlers were apparently fired (suspended) a week before Brady's punishment.

Think about that for a minute. If you didn't cheat, or try, why did these guys get punished?

3. Pats punished the people with intimate knowledge of situation. There was a technicality why Wells couldn't talk to these guys a second time, now that they are appealing the punishment it opens the door to ask these guys more questions. People who were just fired from the Pats.

Oops.

I agree with most points but as far as the "sting" operation I do believe it to be true. For all the times Goodell has spoken of "the integrity of the game" and " a fair game with all the rules intact" yet he deliberately let that game start without notifying anyone on the Patriots team. Yea, I get it that if someone is breaking the rules you are not obliged to remind them not to do so but what if this was a close game and the Colts lost it, how would a Colt player feel about the situation?, I'm guessing they would be pissed, seems "integrity" took a back seat to trying to nab the Pat's. As far as Brady is concerned, if you are indeed completely innocent of any knowledge of any wrongdoing why not agree to submit yourself to a polygraph test?, I know they are not infallible but a lot is on the line here, you've spent the last 14 years busting your ass to be regarded as possibly one of if not the best QB ever, if it were me I would jump at any opportunity to prove you didn't know anything. IMHO this was the equivalent of going 70 in a 55, the league should have just fined the Pat's $250K way back in January and be done with it, now the mess has risen to colossal levels and everyone's trying to save face at this point.

 

[emperus]

There's some big issues with Brady's defense.


2. The ball handlers were apparently fired (suspended) a week before Brady's punishment.

Think about that for a minute. If you didn't cheat, or try, why did these guys get punished?

The Patriots suspended the ball handlers per a league request after the Wells Report. Kraft initially said he would abide by whatever the NFL decided before he saw how out of whack the punishment was. It must be interesting being Bob Kraft. You have to walk the line between protecting the team you felt did no wrong and protecting the league you a part owner of.

“For those asking why Patriots suspended two employees if those two did nothing wrong, as New England claims: NFL asked Pats to suspend them prior to discipline being handed down, per a league source in New York,” Schefter wrote on his Facebook page. “New England obliged with the NFL’s request.”
http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...egate-roles/RUx3ilUEpt4SnIA3N8rLrN/story.html

 

[BrokenVisage]

Cheaters won't appeal according to ESPN. Justice reigns, legacy tarnished, I can sleep a little better after the Seahawks blew the SB now.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story...ngland-patriots-appeal-deflategate-punishment

Apparently Brady is still appealing though, damn it, I figured this included that.

 

[Perknose]

Kraft backs down and accepts the full sanctions. I, for one, accept my NFL overlord.

 

[TheSlamma]

Now their asterisks are complete. /Vader