It's not the cost of living in California that I can't afford, it's the cost of the hallucinogenic drugs that would make living in such a state tolerable.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
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Listen to Amused. All you Rubes from the midwest stay there, the costs of housing is outrageous, there are earthquakes every other day, Drive Byes on every street corner, the sun never shines, the beaches are filthy, everybody speaks spanish, the Governor is a Kennedy in Republicans clothing,all the women are silicone friendly, every other person is gay and Amused says that it sucks there!
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
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Yeah, but all of that is true. IMO, they should just throw a barrier around CA. No one gets in, and (most importantly) no one gets out!
Bah, that's just Eugene... or "North Berkeley, Oregon" as I like to call it.
The problem with Oregon is that we've let too many Californians move up here already...
The CA transplants are easy to spot though... they're the ones in the left lane on I-5 during a gentle drizzle doing 40mph.... :|
Originally posted by: Vic
Yeah, but all of that is true. IMO, they should just throw a barrier around CA. No one gets in, and (most importantly) no one gets out!
Bah, that's just Eugene... or "North Berkeley, Oregon" as I like to call it.
The problem with Oregon is that we've let too many Californians move up here already...
The CA transplants are easy to spot though... they're the ones in the left lane on I-5 during a gentle drizzle doing 40mph.... :|
EXACTLY MY POINT!
(Don't give away the secret, damn it I'm trying to keep people OUT!!!)
You could argue that not all 14 year olds are mature/informed enough to make such decisions, and as a result should not be given the right to vote. But the next logical step would be: Prove to me that all people over 18 are mature/informed enough to make "rational" choices.
What a stupid idea. :disgust:
I am genuinely ashamed of my state.
What's next? Perhaps we should allow 9-13 year olds to vote. Then after that, we can enfranchise the illegal aliens. Heck, why stop even there? How about dropping the minimum age for the position of CA state governor from 30 to 18?
Realistically, you are talking about letting people vote whom the majority of think that popularity among your peers is everything, or that the urequited crush they have on a member of the opposite sex is the most important thing in their lives. These are people who have not fully grown to be individuals, who do not yet have the wisdom to understand that the aforementioned things are of little importance in their yet to be lived lives.
I realize that some may say that some 18 year olds are not as mature as some 14 year olds. However, the vast majority of 18 year olds have more wisdom than a 14 or 16 year old. The thing is, this is about setting standards. If we do not draw the line somewhere, there is no telling what the end result will be. Just like building codes when building a building, the idea is to strive to reach a certain goal of quality and professionalism. If we lower the standards, quality and professionalism will invariably fall also, since there is less of a standard to aim for.
Where has common sense gone these days?
I am genuinely ashamed of my state.
What's next? Perhaps we should allow 9-13 year olds to vote. Then after that, we can enfranchise the illegal aliens. Heck, why stop even there? How about dropping the minimum age for the position of CA state governor from 30 to 18?
Realistically, you are talking about letting people vote whom the majority of think that popularity among your peers is everything, or that the urequited crush they have on a member of the opposite sex is the most important thing in their lives. These are people who have not fully grown to be individuals, who do not yet have the wisdom to understand that the aforementioned things are of little importance in their yet to be lived lives.
I realize that some may say that some 18 year olds are not as mature as some 14 year olds. However, the vast majority of 18 year olds have more wisdom than a 14 or 16 year old. The thing is, this is about setting standards. If we do not draw the line somewhere, there is no telling what the end result will be. Just like building codes when building a building, the idea is to strive to reach a certain goal of quality and professionalism. If we lower the standards, quality and professionalism will invariably fall also, since there is less of a standard to aim for.
Where has common sense gone these days?
I think it is a good idea. It would tend to get younger generation involved with the political process before moving off to college.
people who think 16 year olds are capable of making correct decisions obviously dont know what they are talking about. dont talk about what you dont know about, because it makes you look stupid. im in high school and let me tell you, if you're going to let us vote for politicians, you just commited political and ethical suicide.
nobody this young (in california at least) has half a clue about politics, and i swear thats true. sure, there are some people who arent so damn ignorant, but 99% of us are. in fact, just today in english class, people didn't seem to know the difference between the holocaust and the cold war. in fact, a good number never even heard of the cold war.
nobody this young (in california at least) has half a clue about politics, and i swear thats true. sure, there are some people who arent so damn ignorant, but 99% of us are. in fact, just today in english class, people didn't seem to know the difference between the holocaust and the cold war. in fact, a good number never even heard of the cold war.
true. but someone has to vote, and i can bet people over 18 are a lot more capable at making informed decisions than 14 year olds. personally i think there should be a criteria for who is allowed to vote. pass a test demonstrating knowledge of what you're voting for or some other qualification. call me a communist, but id rather not have people throwing their votes away unknowingly to whoever "looks the coolest" or whatnot.
ie. nearly all my friends have no idea on politics. all are 15 or older. we were watching the news a few weeks back (wee hours of a party), and none had ever heard or seen or read about john kerry- ever. even less state politicians. none know the difference between the democrats/republicans. by giving these guys the right to vote, you can rest assured chaos will ensue.
Listen, Fry's Electronics started in Califas
All you mofos cream at the idea of having a Fry's in your state!
All you mofos cream at the idea of having a Fry's in your state!
You're probably right. But I'm just trying to make people realize that maturity is not as clear cut as turning 18.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
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Law of averages. A higher percentage of 18 year-olds are likely to have reached the maturity level for voting than of 16 year-olds.
I touched on the greater issue involved here in my 1st post in this thread. Minor children, for the most part, do not work, do not pay taxes, and exist on the receiving end of government benefits (i.e. they're in public schooling). As they (once again, for the most part) receive from government without actually contributing to government, they are in no rational position to dictate via franchise that others should contribute more.
IMO, we should make it harder for people to vote, not easier. Democracy, with its tendency to cater to the lowest common denominator, is not a perfect system (just the best we have right now, and even that's debatable). The lower the lowest common denominator is made to be, the more imperfect it becomes. I think that the voting age should be raised to 21 and that it be required the voter actually paid taxes (income, sales, or property) in the year prior to voting.
Seeing as how only about 40% of the population votes, I don't think making voting HARDER is what we need.
I don't know how many of you are old enough to remember, but you used to have to be 21 to vote.
During Nam it was changed, and for good reason.
The argument was "If you are old enough to fight and die for your country, you should be old enough to vote."
Let 14-16 year olds vote, and when the draft starts up again, let them get a draft card as well. :evil:
During Nam it was changed, and for good reason.
The argument was "If you are old enough to fight and die for your country, you should be old enough to vote."
Let 14-16 year olds vote, and when the draft starts up again, let them get a draft card as well.
:evil:
- Apr 14, 2001
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Riiiight. All the businesses fled California in a mass exodous because I told them to.
Red, there is a reason CA lost a signifigant portion of it's businesses and tax base in the last decade.
Hell, I grew up there. I like the climate. It's the people, the politics and the overall anti-business atmosphere I can do without.
Don't old people recive more goverment benifits then the 14-18 year olds? I think the voting age should be 16 because that is when laws tend to start effecting people more.
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