this is where the immigrants should march

[DanTMWTMP]

My parents were immigrants, but definitely came here LEGALLY. Why do our tax dollars have to pull for rights of immigrants who came here ILLEGALLY?

And this is the first time i see KarenMarie be really heated up. :thumbsup: Sorry guys, but, being a kid of parents who worked every once of their being off to just come to the US, and working to make me and my bro's lives be awesomely great... I just can't justify giving these illegals ...ILLEGALs...(goddamn can't anyone read? ILLEGAL GODDAMN IT) any rights of citizenship whatsoever.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
if they are here illegally, they are illegal. they should not be rewarded with the priviledge of a free ticket.

We don't owe them anything.

reform should equal being legal or being deported.

they way things are now is obscene.

my point is that I don't think we owe them anything either except the chance to attain citizenship...we owe that to the world in my opinion....


'bring us your tired , your poor, your huddled masses yurning to be free'

That is crap. if ppl wanna come here ...then let them apply and come here legally. Not break our laws, come here illegally, undercut wages, drain the system in education, medical and the rest ... then say that since they are already here, we should loosen and change our laws to to reward them and make them legal and offer them concessions.

and once they get here... they need to assimilate.

Many times applying for citizenship is simply implausible for many.....you think we are going to give citizenship to people who can't even mail the damn form because they live in a shack without an address?

<---one of his relatives lives in shack not too far from in Mexico city, not to far from the airport.

Well, it sucks for them then.

if they want it bad enough, they will get it ...LEGALLY!

I know this for a fact, because I come from ppl who did not speak the language... and learned and came here legally.

if someone wants something bad enough, they find a legal way to get it... it is called working for it.

or shall i just go and steal a ford mustang... cause i want it and it is not plausible for me to get it?

I believe she had running water and a light bulb but that was about it....you figure out why citizenship is out ofher reach.

See... here is the thing... you seem to feel that i owe her something. that the ppl of america owe her something. that it should be ok for her to break our laws, undercut our wages and sponge off our system... the same system that millions of ppl apply to have the priviledge of LEGALLY...

i find it hard to believe that these illegals can be smart enough to know how to break our laws and make a living here.... take advantage of our system here... as far as medical and education and welfare and the rest... yet not be smart enough to find a way to be legal. are you saying that this girl you mention... she is not smart enough to find any living person on the planet who can speak english to fill out forms for her?

i dont need to figure out a way to find out why her citizenship is out of her reach. or find a way to get it for her. i am too busy trying to keep my head above water... earning a living, pay college fees, and find a way to pay medical bills.... since i am FORCED to pay medical bills and education for others, i cannot afford it for myself.

legal immigrants... the ones that come here LEGALLY... who learn the language, follow the laws of our country, who pledge allegience to the great USA FIRST, and contribute to society... they are welcome and make this country great. those that break our laws.... they need to be deported. those who break our laws.. they need to be deported. then they can apply to be here and work here and contribute here. they dont need to break our laws and be rewarded with freedoms and citizenship to the USA ... which is so very precious.

As I said, my family is made up of once-illegal immigrants.

My uncle is a Nurse for the Navy.

My dad is an EMT ( is mistakenly said paramedic last time) with a firedepartment in MD

my mom works for headstart.

my aunt and her husband are preachers.

They all pay taxes too.....I think they fit the model for people who 'contribute to society.'

I realize that you are bitteron this issue, and rightfully so, but realize there are solutions that don't result in full amnesty or, widespread deportation, or continuous hemmoraging of the countries' finances. Those avenues only lead to bad things.

Like I said, let them work here legally but tax them for the right to work here without a say as to where or how those funds are spent and be done with it.

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster


Like I said, let them work here legally but tax them for the right to work here without a say as to where or how those funds are spent and be done with it.

How do you tax people that have no record of existing?

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: JasonSix78

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: JasonSix78
You know, I worked with an illegal for several years and from what he told me not all of Mexico is horrible to live in, it actually sounds pretty darned nice. I asked him why he wanted to leave and basically he told me just for some money. His plan is to stay here and work for 10 or so years and then return home. Also, my best bud's friend is an engineer for Caterpillar and they transfered him down to Mexico several years ago and he loves it down there.

I've got nothing against Mexican folks moving here but they've got to start doing it through the proper channels. There's alternatives to those who are in bad situations down in Mexico. If they can come up with $2500-$5000 to pay a coyote to bring them in illegally, then they have the resources to make their home better.

-Jason

This is what a comprehensive guest worker program would be great for. He would pay taxes in exchange for being allowed to work here but because he is not a citizen, that money would go to the Us government or state governments etc.

Exactly, that would be an excellent idea. The only problem is if they would initiate such a program without addressing the illegal immigrate situation, more folks would continue coming in illegally than going through the program. Shoot, how many folks would take a chance of just being slapped on the wrist for not paying taxes?

-Jason

If they don't pay taxes deport them. simple as that.

To initiate it, grant a one year tax waiver for all of those are already here and make any new immigrants start paying immeidately.


Sure it will make life for them a complete hell, but this way it is fair. If they want america but don;t want to pledge their allegiance to old glory, jsut make 'em pay.

 

[Svnla]

As a legal first generation immigrant, this is my take.

All immigrants need to follow the law and apply to enter the US legally. It is not fair for everyone else that live in other continents such as Europe, Australia, Asia, Africa, etc.

We do need to reform our immigrant laws and put more teeth in our border control. It is a disgrace to let almost anyone walking in the US in the current condition.

We do need more immigrant with high skills or capital to invest in our economy. How about a lottery or special entry system for anyone with highly desired skills or huge capital to invest in our country. Just as we have first class in airplanes, how about first entry class for those folks?

We need to discuss immigrant issues and legislation in a fair, balance, logical, bi partisian to solve the problems. The problems will be there, knee jerk reactions <from full ammesty to deportation> will make them even worse.

 

[RCN]

Originally posted by: JasonSix78
You know, I worked with an illegal for several years and from what he told me not all of Mexico is horrible to live in, it actually sounds pretty darned nice. I asked him why he wanted to leave and basically he told me just for some money. His plan is to stay here and work for 10 or so years and then return home. Also, my best bud's friend is an engineer for Caterpillar and they transfered him down to Mexico several years ago and he loves it down there.

I've got nothing against Mexican folks moving here but they've got to start doing it through the proper channels. There's alternatives to those who are in bad situations down in Mexico. If they can come up with $2500-$5000 to pay a coyote to bring them in illegally, then they have the resources to make their home better.

-Jason

Not disagreeing with the essence of your post but...........

not all illegals are Mexicans. Also there really isn't a "middle class" in Mexico so the reasons are going to be mostly at opposite ends of the spectrum. Sure Mexico/CA/SA is nice if you have money.

As far as the "coyotes" not all require money up front. Many illegals are guided here and send money back because their family will be harmed if they don't pay what they owe...

I hired a few Guatemalans that were in this situation. Not only were they sending money back to pay their debt to the "coyote", sending some back for their family, but they were also being raped moneywise here in the US. The guy that housed them charged $600 a month (8-10 of them) and had them stacked in an old trailer he was paying $500 a month on. For whatever reason they were "required" to live there...........


I simply can't imagine how someone in Guatemala would go through the "proper channels"

Again don't get me wrong I just empathize with them/ their situation which of course isn't the situation of all illegals...........

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: Crazyfool
I think we ought to allow them all to become "legal" immediately and then collect taxes from them.

It doesn't seem right to keep people out of the USA who simply are trying to improve their lives. And they take jobs no one else will do. I don't know about you but I ain't about to pick no dang fruit for a living.

That line of thought is very naive... People fail to see the whole picture and come to draw stupid conclusions like these 'I don't wanna pick fruit, or I'm not paying $5 for stawberries".. Suck it up, I'd rather pay $5 on fscking strawberries and HAVE A CHOICE then spend hundreds of dollars in taxes every year and NOT have a choice.. Anyways, I find it funny that everybody assumes strawberries and other crap will climb in price dramatically when magically in the 50s and 60s, we didn't have illegals picking our fruits yet they were at reasonable prices.. idiots..

 

[RCN]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: JasonSix78

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: JasonSix78
You know, I worked with an illegal for several years and from what he told me not all of Mexico is horrible to live in, it actually sounds pretty darned nice. I asked him why he wanted to leave and basically he told me just for some money. His plan is to stay here and work for 10 or so years and then return home. Also, my best bud's friend is an engineer for Caterpillar and they transfered him down to Mexico several years ago and he loves it down there.

I've got nothing against Mexican folks moving here but they've got to start doing it through the proper channels. There's alternatives to those who are in bad situations down in Mexico. If they can come up with $2500-$5000 to pay a coyote to bring them in illegally, then they have the resources to make their home better.

-Jason

This is what a comprehensive guest worker program would be great for. He would pay taxes in exchange for being allowed to work here but because he is not a citizen, that money would go to the Us government or state governments etc.

Exactly, that would be an excellent idea. The only problem is if they would initiate such a program without addressing the illegal immigrate situation, more folks would continue coming in illegally than going through the program. Shoot, how many folks would take a chance of just being slapped on the wrist for not paying taxes?

-Jason

If they don't pay taxes deport them. simple as that.

To initiate it, grant a one year tax waiver for all of those are already here and make any new immigrants start paying immeidately.


Sure it will make life for them a complete hell, but this way it is fair. If they want america but don;t want to pledge their allegiance to old glory, jsut make 'em pay.

Simple as that huh? How much will it cost to make sure they pay their taxes and monitor employers. I would imagine it would be a net loss............

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: Goosemaster


Like I said, let them work here legally but tax them for the right to work here without a say as to where or how those funds are spent and be done with it.

How do you tax people that have no record of existing?

Give them an ultimatum. Come to us and get a working pass or we'll round you all up and deport you for violating U.S. law. That would be just.


Perhaps make it lead to citizenship in the future, but make them give a few years worth of taxes to the us first.

 

[RCN]

Originally posted by: goku
when magically in the 50s and 60s, we didn't have illegals picking our fruits yet they were at reasonable prices.. idiots..

Are you sure about that?

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: RCN

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: JasonSix78

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: JasonSix78
You know, I worked with an illegal for several years and from what he told me not all of Mexico is horrible to live in, it actually sounds pretty darned nice. I asked him why he wanted to leave and basically he told me just for some money. His plan is to stay here and work for 10 or so years and then return home. Also, my best bud's friend is an engineer for Caterpillar and they transfered him down to Mexico several years ago and he loves it down there.

I've got nothing against Mexican folks moving here but they've got to start doing it through the proper channels. There's alternatives to those who are in bad situations down in Mexico. If they can come up with $2500-$5000 to pay a coyote to bring them in illegally, then they have the resources to make their home better.

-Jason

This is what a comprehensive guest worker program would be great for. He would pay taxes in exchange for being allowed to work here but because he is not a citizen, that money would go to the Us government or state governments etc.

Exactly, that would be an excellent idea. The only problem is if they would initiate such a program without addressing the illegal immigrate situation, more folks would continue coming in illegally than going through the program. Shoot, how many folks would take a chance of just being slapped on the wrist for not paying taxes?

-Jason

If they don't pay taxes deport them. simple as that.

To initiate it, grant a one year tax waiver for all of those are already here and make any new immigrants start paying immeidately.


Sure it will make life for them a complete hell, but this way it is fair. If they want america but don;t want to pledge their allegiance to old glory, jsut make 'em pay.

Simple as that huh? How much will it cost to make sure they pay their taxes and monitor employers. I would imagine it would be a net loss............

better than the net loss we have now.

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: RCN

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: JasonSix78

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: JasonSix78
You know, I worked with an illegal for several years and from what he told me not all of Mexico is horrible to live in, it actually sounds pretty darned nice. I asked him why he wanted to leave and basically he told me just for some money. His plan is to stay here and work for 10 or so years and then return home. Also, my best bud's friend is an engineer for Caterpillar and they transfered him down to Mexico several years ago and he loves it down there.

I've got nothing against Mexican folks moving here but they've got to start doing it through the proper channels. There's alternatives to those who are in bad situations down in Mexico. If they can come up with $2500-$5000 to pay a coyote to bring them in illegally, then they have the resources to make their home better.

-Jason

This is what a comprehensive guest worker program would be great for. He would pay taxes in exchange for being allowed to work here but because he is not a citizen, that money would go to the Us government or state governments etc.

Exactly, that would be an excellent idea. The only problem is if they would initiate such a program without addressing the illegal immigrate situation, more folks would continue coming in illegally than going through the program. Shoot, how many folks would take a chance of just being slapped on the wrist for not paying taxes?

-Jason

If they don't pay taxes deport them. simple as that.

To initiate it, grant a one year tax waiver for all of those are already here and make any new immigrants start paying immeidately.


Sure it will make life for them a complete hell, but this way it is fair. If they want america but don;t want to pledge their allegiance to old glory, jsut make 'em pay.

Simple as that huh? How much will it cost to make sure they pay their taxes and monitor employers. I would imagine it would be a net loss............

Eh, who cares if they pay taxes, sure they SHOULD but people need to look at the big picture, not that stupid dude in the corner who is 10 pixels/dots tall and is apparently mounting a donkey..

So they pay taxes like good americans, so what; they hopped the border, got jobs here, are uneducated, provide no benefit to the economy besides mask the rate of inflation, drain the system from needy citizens, and then all of a sudden we give them amnesty. This effectively lets all of them cut in line in becoming citizens while we have all these people from asia and other parts of the world who are educated, and could benefit us but are stuck in line, like law abiding people, wating to get in the country and eventually becoming citizens.

I think while this may seem incredibly rude and unethical, line them up in becoming citizens at some government building, walk them into a room which is really the back of a jail car, lock the car, drive the damned car across the border and drop them off, continuing this until most if not all of them are gone, then sealing up the borders.. Look at the facts, they're not citizens therefore THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS, if they want to b1tch and moan about their rights being violated, too bad, they're not citizens, maybe they should go across the border, get in line, become a citizen and then b1tch, by then they won't care anymore..

 

[Goosemaster]

My point is we don't need to deport them.

What we need to do is send them a clear message that: either you want to work here and will have to pay a 'fee' for the priveledge to do so (taxes) or you want to become a citizen of the Nation.
Differentiate between those that want money and those that want a better life and adjsut the details for each scenario accordingly.

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

As I said, my family is made up of once-illegal immigrants.

My uncle is a Nurse for the Navy.

My dad is an EMT ( is mistakenly said paramedic last time) with a firedepartment in MD

my mom works for headstart.

my aunt and her husband are preachers.

They all pay taxes too.....I think they fit the model for people who 'contribute to society.'

I realize that you are bitteron this issue, and rightfully so, but realize there are solutions that don't result in full amnesty or, widespread deportation, or continuous hemmoraging of the countries' finances. Those avenues only lead to bad things.

Like I said, let them work here legally but tax them for the right to work here without a say as to where or how those funds are spent and be done with it.

while i understand that all ppl are different and have different value systems... i would not be in a hurry to openly state that my parents were law breakers.

your family came here ... were breaking laws and found a way to be legal. congrats for them. they did it backwards, illegally, and made it work for them.

i am not bitter on the issue... i am honest, honest and law abiding, on the issue. illegals, law breakers.. should not be rewarded.

instead of just letting them work here illegally and THEN apply ... why not make them apply FIRST then come here and work. not break the laws and skate.

what i am pissed off about is those that want to make all of this a grey area, when it is black and white. i am tired of hearing how illegals do work that Americans wont. Americans did them just fine before illegals came and undercut the wages. Americans were just fine before they had to pay extra taxes because illegals became entitled to medical coverage they couldnt afford for themselves or their families. Americans were just fine paying out of state college fees until illegals got FREE college or in state fees at the expense of those who did NOT break the laws. Americans were just fine paying taxes for schools, until the taxes skyrocketed to pay for illegals , who were in schools that they werent entitled to, and needed extra attention because they did not speak english. Americans were just fine understanding that America is the greatest country in the world and that ppl were willing to put their lives on the line to come here for a better life, before ppl broke our laws to get here and then demanded that we change our laws to suit them who wanted to pledge allegience to their home country while taking advantage to all the goodies that LEGAL ppl here worked for.

No, sorry... i do not think that ppl who are here ILLEGALLY should get a damn thing as far as concessions.

If we shipped all the illegals back tomorrow, we would suffer a short time of economic hardship... then jobs would go back to decent wages to ppl who are here legally. no matter where they came from, they would be here legally and that would be fair.

we will probably have to agree to disagree here, because in my mind... there is nothing that could be said to me that would make me think that ILLEGAL actvity should be rewarded with one of the most precious GIFTS ever... the GIFT of being able to live and work in the greatest country on the planet.

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: RCN

Originally posted by: goku
when magically in the 50s and 60s, we didn't have illegals picking our fruits yet they were at reasonable prices.. idiots..

Are you sure about that?

Pretty sure, don't remember people b1tching about the price of strawberries like they do now about oil... I've told my dad about this (who obviously lived during this time period) and he completely agrees with me. I don't think anyone has ever disagreed with me on the arguement about strawberries 'nsh1t costing more then (overall, like unreasonably priced etc.) than they do now..

 

[RCN]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Simple as that huh? How much will it cost to make sure they pay their taxes and monitor employers. I would imagine it would be a net loss............

better than the net loss we have now.[/quote]
How so? If your only concern is with the taxes that would probably just cover the cost of monitoring them? Not to mention most would make money paying taxes if allowed to qualify for EIC and really wouldn't be "paying" anything to begin with...........

You now have the net loss you had plus some........and of course more illegals pouring in.......

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: RCN

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: JasonSix78

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: JasonSix78
You know, I worked with an illegal for several years and from what he told me not all of Mexico is horrible to live in, it actually sounds pretty darned nice. I asked him why he wanted to leave and basically he told me just for some money. His plan is to stay here and work for 10 or so years and then return home. Also, my best bud's friend is an engineer for Caterpillar and they transfered him down to Mexico several years ago and he loves it down there.

I've got nothing against Mexican folks moving here but they've got to start doing it through the proper channels. There's alternatives to those who are in bad situations down in Mexico. If they can come up with $2500-$5000 to pay a coyote to bring them in illegally, then they have the resources to make their home better.

-Jason

This is what a comprehensive guest worker program would be great for. He would pay taxes in exchange for being allowed to work here but because he is not a citizen, that money would go to the Us government or state governments etc.

Exactly, that would be an excellent idea. The only problem is if they would initiate such a program without addressing the illegal immigrate situation, more folks would continue coming in illegally than going through the program. Shoot, how many folks would take a chance of just being slapped on the wrist for not paying taxes?

-Jason

If they don't pay taxes deport them. simple as that.

To initiate it, grant a one year tax waiver for all of those are already here and make any new immigrants start paying immeidately.


Sure it will make life for them a complete hell, but this way it is fair. If they want america but don;t want to pledge their allegiance to old glory, jsut make 'em pay.

Simple as that huh? How much will it cost to make sure they pay their taxes and monitor employers. I would imagine it would be a net loss............

Eh, who cares if they pay taxes, sure they SHOULD but people need to look at the big picture, not that stupid dude in the corner who is 10 pixels/dots tall and is apparently mounting a donkey..

So they pay taxes like good americans, so what; they hopped the border, got jobs here, are uneducated, provide no benefit to the economy besides mask the rate of inflation, drain the system from needy citizens, and then all of a sudden we give them amnesty. This effectively lets all of them cut in line in becoming citizens while we have all these people from asia and other parts of the world who are educated, and could benefit us but are stuck in line, like law abiding people, wating to get in the country and eventually becoming citizens.

I think while this may seem incredibly rude and unethical, line them up in becoming citizens at some government building, walk them into a room which is really the back of a jail car, lock the car, drive the damned car across the border and drop them off, continuing this until most if not all of them are gone, then sealing up the borders.. Look at the facts, they're not citizens therefore THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS, if they want to b1tch and moan about their rights being violated, too bad, they're not citizens, maybe they should go across the border, get in line, become a citizen and then b1tch, by then they won't care anymore..

Who said anything about just giving them amnesty?


Make them apply for citizenship like everyone else, but in the man time, they are bettering themselves and becoming better potential candidates.

That said, this is not a country of the elite. You make it sound like the wealthy deserve to come here more than the poor.

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

As I said, my family is made up of once-illegal immigrants.

My uncle is a Nurse for the Navy.

My dad is an EMT ( is mistakenly said paramedic last time) with a firedepartment in MD

my mom works for headstart.

my aunt and her husband are preachers.

They all pay taxes too.....I think they fit the model for people who 'contribute to society.'

I realize that you are bitteron this issue, and rightfully so, but realize there are solutions that don't result in full amnesty or, widespread deportation, or continuous hemmoraging of the countries' finances. Those avenues only lead to bad things.

Like I said, let them work here legally but tax them for the right to work here without a say as to where or how those funds are spent and be done with it.

while i understand that all ppl are different and have different value systems... i would not be in a hurry to openly state that my parents were law breakers.

your family came here ... were breaking laws and found a way to be legal. congrats for them. they did it backwards, illegally, and made it work for them.

i am not bitter on the issue... i am honest, honest and law abiding, on the issue. illegals, law breakers.. should not be rewarded.

instead of just letting them work here illegally and THEN apply ... why not make them apply FIRST then come here and work. not break the laws and skate.

what i am pissed off about is those that want to make all of this a grey area, when it is black and white. i am tired of hearing how illegals do work that Americans wont. Americans did them just fine before illegals came and undercut the wages. Americans were just fine before they had to pay extra taxes because illegals became entitled to medical coverage they couldnt afford for themselves or their families. Americans were just fine paying out of state college fees until illegals got FREE college or in state fees at the expense of those who did NOT break the laws. Americans were just fine paying taxes for schools, until the taxes skyrocketed to pay for illegals , who were in schools that they werent entitled to, and needed extra attention because they did not speak english. Americans were just fine understanding that America is the greatest country in the world and that ppl were willing to put their lives on the line to come here for a better life, before ppl broke our laws to get here and then demanded that we change our laws to suit them who wanted to pledge allegience to their home country while taking advantage to all the goodies that LEGAL ppl here worked for.

No, sorry... i do not think that ppl who are here ILLEGALLY should get a damn thing as far as concessions.

If we shipped all the illegals back tomorrow, we would suffer a short time of economic hardship... then jobs would go back to decent wages to ppl who are here legally. no matter where they came from, they would be here legally and that would be fair.

we will probably have to agree to disagree here, because in my mind... there is nothing that could be said to me that would make me think that ILLEGAL actvity should be rewarded with one of the most precious GIFTS ever... the GIFT of being able to live and work in the greatest country on the planet.

Wow, everything in this post and especially the bold is so goddamn true it's indescribable.

 

[RCN]

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: RCN

Originally posted by: goku
when magically in the 50s and 60s, we didn't have illegals picking our fruits yet they were at reasonable prices.. idiots..

Are you sure about that?

Pretty sure, don't remember people b1tching about the price of strawberries like they do now about oil... I've told my dad about this (who obviously lived during this time period) and he completely agrees with me. I don't think anyone has ever disagreed with me on the arguement about strawberries 'nsh1t costing more then (overall, like unreasonably priced etc.) than they do now..

I don't mean the cost.....I mean who was picking the fruit. Illegals/ migrant workers weren't invented recently.

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: RCN

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: JasonSix78

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: JasonSix78
You know, I worked with an illegal for several years and from what he told me not all of Mexico is horrible to live in, it actually sounds pretty darned nice. I asked him why he wanted to leave and basically he told me just for some money. His plan is to stay here and work for 10 or so years and then return home. Also, my best bud's friend is an engineer for Caterpillar and they transfered him down to Mexico several years ago and he loves it down there.

I've got nothing against Mexican folks moving here but they've got to start doing it through the proper channels. There's alternatives to those who are in bad situations down in Mexico. If they can come up with $2500-$5000 to pay a coyote to bring them in illegally, then they have the resources to make their home better.

-Jason

This is what a comprehensive guest worker program would be great for. He would pay taxes in exchange for being allowed to work here but because he is not a citizen, that money would go to the Us government or state governments etc.

Exactly, that would be an excellent idea. The only problem is if they would initiate such a program without addressing the illegal immigrate situation, more folks would continue coming in illegally than going through the program. Shoot, how many folks would take a chance of just being slapped on the wrist for not paying taxes?

-Jason

If they don't pay taxes deport them. simple as that.

To initiate it, grant a one year tax waiver for all of those are already here and make any new immigrants start paying immeidately.


Sure it will make life for them a complete hell, but this way it is fair. If they want america but don;t want to pledge their allegiance to old glory, jsut make 'em pay.

Simple as that huh? How much will it cost to make sure they pay their taxes and monitor employers. I would imagine it would be a net loss............

Eh, who cares if they pay taxes, sure they SHOULD but people need to look at the big picture, not that stupid dude in the corner who is 10 pixels/dots tall and is apparently mounting a donkey..

So they pay taxes like good americans, so what; they hopped the border, got jobs here, are uneducated, provide no benefit to the economy besides mask the rate of inflation, drain the system from needy citizens, and then all of a sudden we give them amnesty. This effectively lets all of them cut in line in becoming citizens while we have all these people from asia and other parts of the world who are educated, and could benefit us but are stuck in line, like law abiding people, wating to get in the country and eventually becoming citizens.

I think while this may seem incredibly rude and unethical, line them up in becoming citizens at some government building, walk them into a room which is really the back of a jail car, lock the car, drive the damned car across the border and drop them off, continuing this until most if not all of them are gone, then sealing up the borders.. Look at the facts, they're not citizens therefore THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS, if they want to b1tch and moan about their rights being violated, too bad, they're not citizens, maybe they should go across the border, get in line, become a citizen and then b1tch, by then they won't care anymore..

Who said anything about just giving them amnesty?


Make them apply for citizenship like everyone else, but in the man time, they are bettering themselves and becoming better potential candidates.

That said, this is not a country of the elite. You make it sound like the wealthy deserve to come here more than the poor.

No, but the educated should have a much higher priority when coming here than the working class. We've already got our fair share of working class, we don't need any more at the moment.. I don't hate hispanics, I don't hate mexicans, I'm just plain in simple not racist, but when people break the law and expect the government of another country to say 'it's all right..' just because they're in droves, that just down right pisses me off, I don't care WHO you are... I treat everybody the same in the sense of ethnic group. I don't hate uneducated people but they DO give the impression they don't care. To be perfectly honest, not only do uneducated offer very little, our country already has enough of them, we don't need anymore than we got, we've got our own problems, go fix your own, that isn't our job.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

As I said, my family is made up of once-illegal immigrants.

My uncle is a Nurse for the Navy.

My dad is an EMT ( is mistakenly said paramedic last time) with a firedepartment in MD

my mom works for headstart.

my aunt and her husband are preachers.

They all pay taxes too.....I think they fit the model for people who 'contribute to society.'

I realize that you are bitteron this issue, and rightfully so, but realize there are solutions that don't result in full amnesty or, widespread deportation, or continuous hemmoraging of the countries' finances. Those avenues only lead to bad things.

Like I said, let them work here legally but tax them for the right to work here without a say as to where or how those funds are spent and be done with it.

while i understand that all ppl are different and have different value systems... i would not be in a hurry to openly state that my parents were law breakers.

your family came here ... were breaking laws and found a way to be legal. congrats for them. they did it backwards, illegally, and made it work for them.

i am not bitter on the issue... i am honest, honest and law abiding, on the issue. illegals, law breakers.. should not be rewarded.

instead of just letting them work here illegally and THEN apply ... why not make them apply FIRST then come here and work. not break the laws and skate.

what i am pissed off about is those that want to make all of this a grey area, when it is black and white. i am tired of hearing how illegals do work that Americans wont. Americans did them just fine before illegals came and undercut the wages. Americans were just fine before they had to pay extra taxes because illegals became entitled to medical coverage they couldnt afford for themselves or their families. Americans were just fine paying out of state college fees until illegals got FREE college or in state fees at the expense of those who did NOT break the laws. Americans were just fine paying taxes for schools, until the taxes skyrocketed to pay for illegals , who were in schools that they werent entitled to, and needed extra attention because they did not speak english. Americans were just fine understanding that America is the greatest country in the world and that ppl were willing to put their lives on the line to come here for a better life, before ppl broke our laws to get here and then demanded that we change our laws to suit them who wanted to pledge allegience to their home country while taking advantage to all the goodies that LEGAL ppl here worked for.

No, sorry... i do not think that ppl who are here ILLEGALLY should get a damn thing as far as concessions.

If we shipped all the illegals back tomorrow, we would suffer a short time of economic hardship... then jobs would go back to decent wages to ppl who are here legally. no matter where they came from, they would be here legally and that would be fair.

we will probably have to agree to disagree here, because in my mind... there is nothing that could be said to me that would make me think that ILLEGAL actvity should be rewarded with one of the most precious GIFTS ever... the GIFT of being able to live and work in the greatest country on the planet.

The US had a hand in fvking ravaging their country. I'll shout it from the mountain tops if I have to like so many salvadoreans did today in D.c..

I am not afraid to defend them on this issue.


Think of it like speeding to get your pregnant wife, whos's water jsut broke, to sanctuary, in this case, a hospital, as fast as possible.

Are you jsutified in breaking the law for that? One could defintiely argue that you are not entitled to break the law for convenience, medical reasons or othersie, but the fact is that, deep down inside, you know it is the right decision and damn the law....you'll face that juge with your held up high. Sure it was stupid and wreckless and illogical, but it was all you could do to try and secure the future of your child.


Same idea as to what happned with my family.

Sure it was stupid, wrong, illeagal, and a whole hsot of other thigns, but it was either that or live life in a war-torn nation.

 

[RCN]

Originally posted by: goku
they're not citizens therefore THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS,

I think you are wrong here. There are rights that are beyond the power of men. Our founding father's recognized them and so should you.

"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."


Yes we are a nation of laws but...................

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: RCN

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: JasonSix78

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: JasonSix78
You know, I worked with an illegal for several years and from what he told me not all of Mexico is horrible to live in, it actually sounds pretty darned nice. I asked him why he wanted to leave and basically he told me just for some money. His plan is to stay here and work for 10 or so years and then return home. Also, my best bud's friend is an engineer for Caterpillar and they transfered him down to Mexico several years ago and he loves it down there.

I've got nothing against Mexican folks moving here but they've got to start doing it through the proper channels. There's alternatives to those who are in bad situations down in Mexico. If they can come up with $2500-$5000 to pay a coyote to bring them in illegally, then they have the resources to make their home better.

-Jason

This is what a comprehensive guest worker program would be great for. He would pay taxes in exchange for being allowed to work here but because he is not a citizen, that money would go to the Us government or state governments etc.

Exactly, that would be an excellent idea. The only problem is if they would initiate such a program without addressing the illegal immigrate situation, more folks would continue coming in illegally than going through the program. Shoot, how many folks would take a chance of just being slapped on the wrist for not paying taxes?

-Jason

If they don't pay taxes deport them. simple as that.

To initiate it, grant a one year tax waiver for all of those are already here and make any new immigrants start paying immeidately.


Sure it will make life for them a complete hell, but this way it is fair. If they want america but don;t want to pledge their allegiance to old glory, jsut make 'em pay.

Simple as that huh? How much will it cost to make sure they pay their taxes and monitor employers. I would imagine it would be a net loss............

Eh, who cares if they pay taxes, sure they SHOULD but people need to look at the big picture, not that stupid dude in the corner who is 10 pixels/dots tall and is apparently mounting a donkey..

So they pay taxes like good americans, so what; they hopped the border, got jobs here, are uneducated, provide no benefit to the economy besides mask the rate of inflation, drain the system from needy citizens, and then all of a sudden we give them amnesty. This effectively lets all of them cut in line in becoming citizens while we have all these people from asia and other parts of the world who are educated, and could benefit us but are stuck in line, like law abiding people, wating to get in the country and eventually becoming citizens.

I think while this may seem incredibly rude and unethical, line them up in becoming citizens at some government building, walk them into a room which is really the back of a jail car, lock the car, drive the damned car across the border and drop them off, continuing this until most if not all of them are gone, then sealing up the borders.. Look at the facts, they're not citizens therefore THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS, if they want to b1tch and moan about their rights being violated, too bad, they're not citizens, maybe they should go across the border, get in line, become a citizen and then b1tch, by then they won't care anymore..

Who said anything about just giving them amnesty?


Make them apply for citizenship like everyone else, but in the man time, they are bettering themselves and becoming better potential candidates.

That said, this is not a country of the elite. You make it sound like the wealthy deserve to come here more than the poor.

No, but the educated should have a much higher priority when coming here than the working class. We've already got our fair share of working class, we don't need any more at the moment.. I don't hate hispanics, I don't hate mexicans, I'm just plain in simple not racist, but when people break the law and expect the government of another country to say 'it's all right..' just because they're in droves, that just down right pisses me off, I don't care WHO you are... I treat everybody the same in the sense of ethnic group. I don't hate uneducated people but they DO give the impression they don't care. To be perfectly honest, not only do uneducated offer very little, our country already has enough of them, we don't need anymore than we got, we've got our own problems, go fix your own, that isn't our job.

education usually requires money.

That comes off as discrimination to me.


'bring me your tired your poor'

that is what is wrong with america and why so many people come here illegally. They simply don't stand a chance of getting in.

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: RCN

Originally posted by: goku
they're not citizens therefore THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS,

I think you are wrong here. There are rights that are beyond the power of men. Our founding father's recognized them and so should you.

"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."


Yes we are a nation of laws but...................

that is the declaration of independence of the united states. please... it is NOT the declaration of independence to the entire world

 

[RCN]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: RCN

Originally posted by: goku
they're not citizens therefore THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS,

I think you are wrong here. There are rights that are beyond the power of men. Our founding father's recognized them and so should you.

"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."


Yes we are a nation of laws but...................

that is the declaration of independence of the united states. please... it is NOT the declaration of independence to the entire world

.......wow...........