Think individual mandate is bad? VA GOP mandates vaginal probes...

[MotF Bane]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transvaginal_ultrasound



I'd say you can make a point on unnecessary, but not invasive.

Sticking an object into a persons body, how is that not invasive?

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[Nemesis 1]

You read this right, just in time for Valentine's day, the vagina specialists in VA house GOP have mandated vaginal probes for women seeking abortions. When Republicans say something should be left up to the states, they mean your health and dignity should be left up to goons like these:

http://www.newsleader.com/article/20120215/NEWS01/202150321/Va-House-passes-tough-abortion-bills

REP aren't saying this . about state rights . RON PAUL IS . And you know this . Ron paul isn't for this , And you know this also .
So why tie this to states rights when Paul is only Rep for states right . Cool but this is for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpWmRFvbtuo

 

[Patranus]

Sticking an object into a persons body, how is that not invasive?

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No more invasive than tell a private citizen to buy a private product with private money from a private sector company or face jail time.

 

[HomerJS]

I want you to show where the bill says that transvaginal ultrasounds are compelled by law which is what the OP claims. Do you understand the definition of "mandate'? I can post it if not.

This is why you would never make it through law school.

An external ultrasound is not able to produce the necessary picture early in pregnancy, a trans-vaginal ultrasound would be needed to produce an image of the fetus. Because this condition exists it isn't necessary to put the phrase "transvaginal ultrasound" in the bill. They knew this when the bill was crafted which is why is says any locally acceptable medical practice.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Sticking an object into a persons body, how is that not invasive?

.

It is, but he's off the point. The patient doesn't have to have a transvaginal procedure because it isn't mandated by the law. A woman doesn't have to have that done any more than she has to have any other medical procedure when there are several to choose from. Another red herring. One can argue against this bill for other reasons and I find fault with it but sometimes I wonder if the OP isn't shooting his supposed causes by picking the most extreme of falsehoods when a sound objection bases on facts would be better.

 

[OrByte]

Virginia is slowly being taken over by illegals and most of them are old-fashioned catholics and most of THOSE are from one country. The culture is slowly changing. Expect more stuff like this in the future as politicians bend over to accommodate them. I know Virginia may have been considered a conservative christian state long before, but there didnt used to be quite so much nonsense going through the government. As a rule the state generally prioritized individual freedom over christian ideals.

wait..what!?

Are you blaming this on Mexican illegals!?!?

no no no no 1000 times NO.

This is all the radical christian fringe stuff. This is classic fundamentalist stuff. These are the guys that you vote into office, and they are doing exactly what it is they told you they would do when voted into office. There is no bait and switch, there is no "accomodation" to changing demographics.

These are YOUR representatives, you should fvkcing OWN IT.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

This is why you would never make it through law school.

An external ultrasound is not able to produce the necessary picture early in pregnancy, a trans-vaginal ultrasound would be needed to produce an image of the fetus. Because this condition exists it isn't necessary to put the phrase "transvaginal ultrasound" in the bill. They knew this when the bill was crafted which is why is says any locally acceptable medical practice.

Then the bill should be amended in cases of early pregnancy. Personally I think the whole thing is crap, but in cases where there is medical concern I believe that if the health care provider feels the safety of the patient is a concern then transvaginal ultrasounds aren't an issue. That however should be a medical not a legal issue. Once we're past the first two months however a TVU isn't required. Frankly I think the government should stay out of our healthcare whenever possible, but it will do what it wants anyway.

 

[Zorba]

This is stupid. Why don't they use an External Ultrasound Method.

Yep, While Ultrasound imaging is required, there is no requirement of it being a "transvaginal ultrasound."

Early term pregnancies can not be seen with an external ultrasound, thus requiring a vaginal probe if less than ~8-10 weeks. Also if the law requires finding the heart beat that could delay the abortion by many weeks.

 

[Zorba]

That's the link I read, I just grabbed the wrong portion. To be clear. The law does require an ultrasound, and if anyone thought I was saying otherwise, I appologize as that was not my intention. It does not require a specific type of ultrasound, however, nor does it seem to force the patient to view the ultrasound.

I'm personally indifferent on the law. I realize that it's goal is to try to convince potential patients to change their minds, but on the other hand, I've always though having more information was a good thing.

The law does mandate that any center providing an abortion also own ultrasound equipment, which will create a larger barrier to entry and drive up the cost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transvaginal_ultrasound

I'd say you can make a point on unnecessary, but not invasive.

My Sister-in-law refused a transvaginal probe ultrasound when she was pregnant, from a doctor she had been seeing for years because she was not comfortable with the idea. I've heard her talking about it, and to her it would be extremely invasive.

Let's see how invasive you think anal probing is when it becomes mandated for no good reason.

 

[chucky2]

I really don't understand even the logic of this law (other than politicians doing what they do best...making shit up to stay relevant), maybe I'm missing something here:

1.) If the woman is pregnant in her first trimester, which can be confirmed by a simple piss test, who gives a F if she wants an abortion, give it to her. Better to be rid of some cells/tissue than have yet another person adding to the population of the US and on top of that, take another high chance it'll be an unwanted baby, treated as such, and turn out as that type of person.

2.) If the woman is pregnant in her second trimester, which can be confirmed by external ultrasound, then I can see a point to this, however, she's still going to want the abortion. Seems just like a mental play against the woman to have something she doesn't want. Sort of like having a grown human man remain unnaturally chaste because his version of the sky god did, and then pushing young innocent boys in his face...what's the point?

3.) If the woman is pregnent in her third trimester, and comes in for an abortion, not for medical purposes but because she doesn't want it, then, pysch ward for mom, immediate enforced adoption for kid. No sane woman would try and terminate a baby for a non-physical medical reason in the third trimester. Keeping the baby with a loon is not safe for the baby.

This seems fairly simple to me...maybe I'm missing something?

Chuck

 

[senseamp]

Virginia is in play this election:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/va/virginia_romney_vs_obama-1774.html#polls

Great time for Republicans to remind Virginia's women voters what will happen if they elect a Republican president who will appoint judges who will overturn Roe v. Wade and leave this issue up to their state.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Virginia is in play this election:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/va/virginia_romney_vs_obama-1774.html#polls

Great time for Republicans to remind Virginia's women voters what will happen if they elect a Republican president who will appoint judges who will overturn Roe v. Wade and leave this issue up to their state.

Or Martians, because Mars Needs Women. The only candidate who has a chance of winning is Romney and he's a Mass. conservative, meaning fairly moderate in practice. Romneycare was hardly a RNC talking point.

 

[Ausm]

This is the Righties idea of small Gubermint!

 

[halik]

I applaud this yet another step towards Revolution especially against Republican rule.

Each thing they pass such as this is dealing their demise.

Wow I actually agree with dmcowen; what the f is going on today.

This only goes to prove that the nutters on the right are about small government as much as the nutters on the left.

 

[halik]

I see it as a cost saving measure to ensure that there is in fact a pregnancy before a far more risky and costly procedure is performed. You're for reducing the cost of health care aren't you?

In what world should the government be deciding on what are proper mandated medical procedures? That's what doctors do..

 

[sunzt]

We want you to see your beibies!

 

[shadow9d9]

No more invasive than tell a private citizen to buy a private product with private money from a private sector company or face jail time.

This is what republicans actually think.

 

[Ausm]

OT: Random thought....I wonder if I rub my plastic Jesus hard enough that I could come back as a vaginal probe in VA in my second life?

 

[halik]

No more invasive than tell a private citizen to buy a private product with private money from a private sector company or face jail time.

Ya, that's totally on the same level. When you show up in the ER and the hospital has to perform $500K of trauma work on you, it's still about having free choice not to insure right? Do yourself a favor and google the freerider problem; stupid arguments are stupid.

 

[highland145]

The law does mandate that any center providing an abortion also own ultrasound equipment, which will create a larger barrier to entry and drive up the cost.

Worker at planned parenthood told me they already used them to determine the cost of the procedure based on the # of weeks into the pregnancy. No idea if it's standard at all locations.

 

[highland145]

OT: Random thought....I wonder if I rub my plastic Jesus hard enough that I could come back as a vaginal probe in VA in my second life?

...at the free clinic.D:

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Ya, that's totally on the same level. When you show up in the ER and the hospital has to perform $500K of trauma work on you, it's still about having free choice not to insure right? Do yourself a favor and google the freerider problem; stupid arguments are stupid.

That is a problem. Now the other is the belief on the part of some that the government should have the right to make people do what it wants by punishing them for something it can't make them do outright. Forgive me, but arcane reasoning aside there was never the intent that government have that power. What you really want is that only your agenda be implemented this way, but that's not how it works. Once you let the genie out then anything that potentially touches anything else involved in interstate trade can be forced upon you. Oh it won't be a requirement, but it can be demonstrated where concealed carry has been permitted the crime rate drops. Since firearms are part of interstate trade and they can be linked so the Federal government now can give everyone that right. How? Well just tax people who don't carry. Then certain colors of cars are less prone to accidents than others. How about a tax if you don't have the right one?

You will probably argue that "we wouldn't do that" but you've established the principle. You don't get to control the application.

 

[shortylickens]

wait..what!?

Are you blaming this on Mexican illegals!?!?

no no no no 1000 times NO.

This is all the radical christian fringe stuff. This is classic fundamentalist stuff. These are the guys that you vote into office, and they are doing exactly what it is they told you they would do when voted into office. There is no bait and switch, there is no "accomodation" to changing demographics.

These are YOUR representatives, you should fvkcing OWN IT.

I'm not rich because I dont milk illegals.
Or maybe I dont milk illegals cuz I'm not rich. Its one or the other. All I can do is vote. I dont have the power to influence what politicians do. Doesnt matter what their party is, they always give in to special interest groups.


And no, I am not blaming mexican illegals for this. I am blaming anchor babies who are now grown up and starting to influence politics in subtle ways. We have always had radical fringe Christians here. They never got any anti-abortion stuff done in the past. The state isnt scared of them and knew to ignore their outrageous requests. The state is terrified of millions of illegals who will soon be the majority and will have strong control over politics. They are working now to get along with them so they will have a nice cushy future.

 

[Ausm]

...at the free clinic.D:

LOL that would be nasty.

 

[HomerJS]

That is a problem. Now the other is the belief on the part of some that the government should have the right to make people do what it wants by punishing them for something it can't make them do outright. Forgive me, but arcane reasoning aside there was never the intent that government have that power. What you really want is that only your agenda be implemented this way, but that's not how it works. Once you let the genie out then anything that potentially touches anything else involved in interstate trade can be forced upon you. Oh it won't be a requirement, but it can be demonstrated where concealed carry has been permitted the crime rate drops. Since firearms are part of interstate trade and they can be linked so the Federal government now can give everyone that right. How? Well just tax people who don't carry. Then certain colors of cars are less prone to accidents than others. How about a tax if you don't have the right one?

You will probably argue that "we wouldn't do that" but you've established the principle. You don't get to control the application.

You need to take one step back. We already decided its inhumane not to treat someone in the ER even if they can't show the ability to pay. If this were removed mandate wouldn't be necessary.