Thi4f becomes plain old Thief, reboot coming in 2014

[sze5003]

Meaning I never played the original thief games so it didn't bother me much. Comparing splinter cell stealth with thief stealth is a little different. Completely different genre but stealth is worked in differently for each game.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Meaning I never played the original thief games so it didn't bother me much. Comparing splinter cell stealth with thief stealth is a little different. Completely different genre but stealth is worked in differently for each game.

Ahh, OK.

The original games were more on the lines of "Here's a map. You at at A. Across the map is B and you must steal it, escaping from C. Try to get objectives G, H and I. Random other fun things hidden."

No linearity, no real hand holding. I LOVED that n the Thief games and even in Deus Ex 1.

 

[jjjayb]

There was always alternatives to getting past enemies in T3 but ropes and ledges do not exactly make a game superior, especially when you're dealing with security cameras and robots. T3 had a much more lived in atmosphere with NPC's that were not just chamber maids. Ropes and ledges does not make up for poor contrast, empty spaces and the plethora of other things wrong with T2.
None of which beats Dishonored in most respects anyway but T2 does not hold up well at all today.

I couldn't disagree more. I've re-played all of the original 3 very recently. Thief 1 and 2 are still fantastic. They hold up very well. Thief 3 was a lot worse than I remembered. I would rank it the worst of the series by far. Even below the new Thief.

 

[Racan]

Ahh, OK.

The original games were more on the lines of "Here's a map. You at at A. Across the map is B and you must steal it, escaping from C. Try to get objectives G, H and I. Random other fun things hidden."

No linearity, no real hand holding. I LOVED that n the Thief games and even in Deus Ex 1.

 

[BSim500]

Fantastic pic Racan. And that Thief 2 level itself (Shipping & Receiving IIRC?) was barely a fraction of the size of "Life of the Party" or "Sabotage at Soulforge" missions. I managed to get through the first 2 levels of Thief 4 (on a friend's PC) then gave up. Absolute cr*p. I remember sitting there after the jewellers thinking - was that it? Mission was over with in about 12-15mins. Audio was broken. Dumb QTE's every time you opened a window, etc. Some of T1 & 2's were over an hour even at the start of the game.

Average completion times from howlongtobeat.com:-

Thief Gold = 21-23hr
Thief 2 = 22-29hrs
Thief 3 = 18-23hr
Thief 4 = 8-11hr

Enough said...

 

[Fire&Blood]

I should stop beating the dead horse already but I have to point to this review, so refreshing compared to ones that review the new game and talk about legacy yet never played every part of the series. It's not just a good Thief review, it's the best game review I read in a while: http://www.gatheryourparty.com/articles/2014/02/28/thief-review/

This guy is welcome change to all the review machines out there too:http://scientificgamer.com/thoughts-thief/

 

[Skel]

Fantastic pic Racan. And that Thief 2 level itself (Shipping & Receiving IIRC?) was barely a fraction of the size of "Life of the Party" or "Sabotage at Soulforge" missions. I managed to get through the first 2 levels of Thief 4 (on a friend's PC) then gave up. Absolute cr*p. I remember sitting there after the jewellers thinking - was that it? Mission was over with in about 12-15mins. Audio was broken. Dumb QTE's every time you opened a window, etc. Some of T1 & 2's were over an hour even at the start of the game.

Average completion times from howlongtobeat.com:-

Thief Gold = 21-23hr
Thief 2 = 22-29hrs
Thief 3 = 18-23hr
Thief 4 = 8-11hr

Enough said...

Those times are a bit misleading. If you blow through the story mode and ignore a lot of the side quests or worse if you run through without any attempt at being stealth then yes, the game is really short. If you play it like a stealth and do side quests it lasts much longer.

 

[RampantAndroid]

ftfy

I just finished a run on Deus Ex Inivisible War (the 2nd game) and have to say...wow.

In the original game, nearly no load times in main levels; levels were large between loads. IIRC, all of the first level (liberty island) outside area, docks and the entirety of the statue were one level. UNATCO HQ was it's own level. Skip to IW where you're back on the Island, and the island is split into east/west, doesn't include the statue (it apparently was destroyed), UNATCO remains its own level and the Illuminati HQ is it's own SMALL level.

Now, on the thief games - same thing - 1 and 2 had NO stupid lockpick minigames. Seriously people, can we be done with these lockpick games? We can assume Garret is an adept thief who knows how to lockpick. You picked one of your two picks, and it either did something, or it did nothing. You then tried the other pick. If that failed, you needed a key. There was no "key required" message for you, either.

Moreover, I get that Thief 3 was on consoles and suffered in level size like Deus Ex 2 did - Shalebridge cradle (which the reviewer Rick James Astley linked to mentions :awe was two levels. I get that, it was on the XBox 1. But WHY is Thief 4 having load times? Welcome to the modern age: most systems (by the steam survey) are at 4-8GB of system RAM. There is NO excuse for small levels anymore.

 

[BSim500]

Those times are a bit misleading. If you blow through the story mode and ignore a lot of the side quests or worse if you run through without any attempt at being stealth then yes, the game is really short. If you play it like a stealth and do side quests it lasts much longer.

Not really. They are average fair "like for like" times, not speedrun on one vs completionist on another. The "rushed" column still says 7hr 24m for Thief 4 but 17hr 45m for Thief 2. No matter which metric you use, like for like, the game is still less than half the size. Even worse, factor in the 20x longer load times and "filler" QTE's vs 100% gameplay, and you could probably knock another 30-45mins off Thief 4's actual play-time...

Moreover, I get that Thief 3 was on consoles and suffered in level size like Deus Ex 2 did - Shalebridge cradle (which the reviewer Rick James Astley linked to mentions ) was two levels. I get that, it was on the XBox 1. But WHY is Thief 4 having load times? Welcome to the modern age: most systems (by the steam survey) are at 4-8GB of system RAM. There is NO excuse for small levels anymore.

My thoughts exactly. At least Thief 3 & DX:IW had the excuse of being limited to XBox's 64MB memory. If 2014 Thief 4 cannot at least improve from 2004 -> 1999 level sizes, (as DX:HR did), then I seriously question just how much of step back modern "all glitter, no substance" gaming development has become...

 

[Sulaco]

Thief is one of those games where completion time is so misleading...in a good way.

The whole style of gameplay, more than any other I can think of, is predicated on patience.

You might freeze in a corner of a hallway for several minutes, waiting to see which way the guards are going to pass. Or dash into a room and close the door and hide for several moments while you're being searched for.

And that's not even counting the listening. Thief is such an aural game, again, more than almost any other, you'll often sit and listen for footsteps, singing, chatter, etc before slooooowly creeping into a room.

And that's every mission, multiple times a mission. There's a sense of satisfaction in completing the mission WELL; not being seen, or grabbing the extra loot.
So it's tough to really put a time stamp on that, and I think trying to do so can be quite deceptive.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

That's just how things are done now:

 

[Geosurface]

I finished the game recently and despite its numerous flaws, I actually ended up getting a pretty decent amount of enjoyment out of it.

The story and the ending are awful, but the gameplay, atmosphere, mechanics, visuals, campaign length, and the way it all comes together does in fact provide an experience which I would say is worth having.

Very flawed game, but I think anyone who was able to find something to enjoy about Deadly Shadows should be able to do the same with this.

 

[cmdrdredd]

That's just how things are done now:

Mostly because it is easier to tell a story if you have a set path. Unless you are building an open world game and need to make the story happen only when the player gets to a certain place or interacts with a certain NPC like borderlands.

I seem to remember back in 1993 there being very little story in fps games.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Mostly because it is easier to tell a story if you have a set path. Unless you are building an open world game and need to make the story happen only when the player gets to a certain place or interacts with a certain NPC like borderlands.

I seem to remember back in 1993 there being very little story in fps games.

Try playing Strife or System Shock

 

[RampantAndroid]

Try playing Strife or System Shock

Or Thief 1 and 2. Or Deus Ex 1. They continued the trend of games having huge complex levels. You need not drive a story based on a player's location, you can drive it based on actions and status. Low health, just picked up an item, new augmentation and so forth.

The problem is these linear games aren't games with a story, they're just interactive movies.

 

[davie jambo]

Ah the old dumbed down for console people chat

Folk tend to think old games were all somehow fantastic , but in truth games are better now than they ever have been. Take for example the guy up there saying it takes 12 hours to go through this game , and the old games took you about double the time ?
Who the hell has 24 hours to go through a game these days ? I know I don't.

We are living in the golden age of gaming , embrace it and stop moaning. I've been gaming since 1980. What we wanted back then is something like an arcade machine in our own homes. I think we have exceeded that somewhat

 

[BSim500]

Take for example the guy up there saying it takes 12 hours to go through this game , and the old games took you about double the time ? Who the hell has 24 hours to go through a game these days ? I know I don't.

"The guy" was me and your comment seems to be little more than "I don't care personally, so it shouldn't matter for anyone else" straw-man... How many hours do you think people put in Oblivion, Skyrim, RTS's, MMORPG's, Battlefield, etc? Literally hundreds... I dread to think what 60hr Dragon Age: Origins would have ended up like it were - yes, dumbed down - to 8hrs for the "I don't have time for this, so no-one else should" crowd. If you personally don't have time for long-games - don't buy them! Don't moan about other people's enjoyment of longer games though. Personally I enjoy a wide spread of games from 20-min session casuals to 80hr RPG epics. That's pretty normal for most gamers who've been gaming for over 25 years.

 

[RampantAndroid]

We are living in the golden age of gaming

The golden age means that instead of getting real games that require you to try, we get interactive movies?

To hell with your golden age, it's the dark age from where I'm sitting. The games from 14 years ago were better. Gaming has been dumb-ed down for the masses.

 

[Sulaco]

Ah the old dumbed down for console people chat

Folk tend to think old games were all somehow fantastic , but in truth games are better now than they ever have been. Take for example the guy up there saying it takes 12 hours to go through this game , and the old games took you about double the time ?
Who the hell has 24 hours to go through a game these days ? I know I don't.

We are living in the golden age of gaming , embrace it and stop moaning. I've been gaming since 1980. What we wanted back then is something like an arcade machine in our own homes. I think we have exceeded that somewhat

Exactly! Who the f*ck wants MORE gameplay time?! Ugh. The nerve!

I get maybe 3-4 hours a week free, tops, to play games. Is it too much to ask that games be no more than an hour or two? I'd settle for an ending cinematic right after my awesome QTE segments are over.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The golden age means that instead of getting real games that require you to try, we get interactive movies?

To hell with your golden age, it's the dark age from where I'm sitting. The games from 14 years ago were better. Gaming has been dumb-ed down for the masses.

I disagree to the fullest. I have never had as much fun in gaming as I have over the last 10 years or so.

 

[Geosurface]

I enjoy some modern games a lot, but also find a lot of the trends and conventions of modern gaming to be annoying.

My golden age was like '95 to '00 as I played Red Alert, Age of Empires, Quake, Ultima Online, Diablo, Unreal, Thief, Half-Life, Mechwarrior 2, System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Jedi Knight, Fallout, Tribes, UT, and so much else.

Certainly a heavy dose of nostalgia in there, and i was 15-20 years old -but there's also a beauty to any phenomenon at the time it hits its stride but before it has become too mainstream and over-produced. UO is a great example because it was so free and untamed in those first few years, but time brings bloat and too many concessions to whiners, etc.

Still, I don't let my nostalgia impede me enjoying modern games. I adored Last of Us, Bioshock, Far Cry 3, and tons more.

 

[TheSlamma]

Mostly because it is easier to tell a story if you have a set path. Unless you are building an open world game and need to make the story happen only when the player gets to a certain place or interacts with a certain NPC like borderlands.

I seem to remember back in 1993 there being very little story in fps games.

I'm here to play a game, not watch a movie.

 

[sze5003]

Exactly! Who the f*ck wants MORE gameplay time?! Ugh. The nerve!

I get maybe 3-4 hours a week free, tops, to play games. Is it too much to ask that games be no more than an hour or two? I'd settle for an ending cinematic right after my awesome QTE segments are over.

Games have been getting shorter each release. When you are paying 60 bucks and the main story only takes you 4 hours to complete, that's kind of dissapointing. This has been the trend lately. But then again no one wants a game that never ends and is so long you don't know what's been happening since you forgot.

I hear the new metal gear solid phantom pain is suppose to be really long. Kojima said he was afraid people would not finish it.

 

[DigDog]

I just finished a run on Deus Ex Inivisible War

OMGBBQ! Another human who liked IW ?!?

*tears of joy*

 

[Ventanni]

I have IW. What would you guys recommmend for a widescreen mod? When I loaded it up a while back, it seemed like the game was zoomed in too much. Felt very awkward for a PC.

As for level design today, you can't beat the level design of the first and second Thief games. I know people rave about the Cradle mission in Thief 3, but they obviously haven't played Return to the Cathedral yet!