Thi4f becomes plain old Thief, reboot coming in 2014

[JamesV]

Looks like the review scores are pretty steady around 70 on Metacritic.

I need a new game, but I think I'll hate this because I love the original two titles, and hated the third; so went reading reviews.

Looks like those that are just starting to play it, love it. While those that have played through the whole thing (reviewers) find a hard time loving it. We've all played games like that; loved them at first, but then a bunch of little things get to us over the course of playing, and then we don't love it so much.

Think I'll wait til it's $5 on Steam, and go play Thief 2 again for now.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

I also agree with most of this article on the top things gamers complain about. Many of them fit right here in this thread. http://poweranks.com/blog/five-trends-that-gamers-complain-about-too-much

It's like the casuals guide to consolization apology, good lord

 

[cmdrdredd]

It's like the casuals guide to consolization apology, good lord

And this is why the pc gaming community has a terrible reputation in general folks.


Using "consolization" as an insult and calling anyone who isn't all like "consoles suck...pc only...master race forever dur hur" a casual is as lame as it gets. They are just games and the platform doesn't mean a thing anymore. You are not special because you paid more for your pc.

 

[Imp]

And this is why the pc gaming community has a terrible reputation in general folks.


Using "consolization" as an insult and calling anyone who isn't all like "consoles suck...pc only...master race forever dur hur" a casual is as lame as it gets. They are just games and the platform doesn't mean a thing anymore. You are not special because you paid more for your pc.

Funny. I hear similar insults from Blackberry owners, "oh, enjoy your toy iPhone and Galaxy, lullllzors".

I'll probably get this when it goes on sale. Still kicking myself for getting CoD: Ghosts for full price months back.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

And this is why the pc gaming community has a terrible reputation in general folks.

Using "consolization" as an insult and calling anyone who isn't all like "consoles suck...pc only...master race forever dur hur" a casual is as lame as it gets. They are just games and the platform doesn't mean a thing anymore. You are not special because you paid more for your pc.

It's not an insult it's the description of a title or a franchise going through iterations where the gameplay becomes more simple in order to cater for a more casual audience who prefer simple gameplay mechanics over complex ones.

I have nothing against causal games, but I think it's incredibly retarded to take a skill based game like Thief with an already established fanbase and completely remove the core components of what defines that game.

Unfortunately we're stuck in a world now where all the major AAA games with a really very tiny exception are all casual now, there's some geuinely brilliant games out on the PC platform over the last few years but the vast majority are indy games, which is why the last 100 games I've bought probably 90% of them are Indy titles.

Sorry but games have been demonstrable dumbed down, this isn't some big secret, every oldschool PC gamer knows it, it's not an insult to console gamers, and them gamers taking it as an insult does not mitigate the fact that it's true, it's just an observation.

 

[sze5003]

Well I only paid 17 bucks for thief 4. Reward zone certificates and found some money in an old jacket haha. Gonna play it tonite on ps4 to see how I feel about the game.

 

[Bateluer]

It's not an insult it's the description of a title or a franchise going through iterations where the gameplay becomes more simple in order to cater for a more casual audience who prefer simple gameplay mechanics over complex ones.

I have nothing against causal games, but I think it's incredibly retarded to take a skill based game like Thief with an already established fanbase and completely remove the core components of what defines that game.

Unfortunately we're stuck in a world now where all the major AAA games with a really very tiny exception are all casual now, there's some geuinely brilliant games out on the PC platform over the last few years but the vast majority are indy games, which is why the last 100 games I've bought probably 90% of them are Indy titles.

Sorry but games have been demonstrable dumbed down, this isn't some big secret, every oldschool PC gamer knows it, it's not an insult to console gamers, and them gamers taking it as an insult does not mitigate the fact that it's true, it's just an observation.

Quote for truth.

 

[Jodell88]

TotalBiscuit nails it again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpmeOB0Zyu0&feature=c4-overview&list=UUy1Ms_5qBTawC-k7PVjHXKQ

 

[PrincessFrosty]

TotalBiscuit nails it again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpmeOB0Zyu0&feature=c4-overview&list=UUy1Ms_5qBTawC-k7PVjHXKQ

By opening with saying that if a game runs at sub 30fps on a computer that costs as much as a small family car is unoptimized, immediately displaying his ignorance when it comes to the meaning of the word optimization and completely blowing past the notion of how good the graphics actually are as a key factor in the relationship between performance and hardware.

Stopped watching there, if the guy doesn't even understand what the word optimized means in a gaming context then I think there's little hope for the rest of that video.

 

[sze5003]

By opening with saying that if a game runs at sub 30fps on a computer that costs as much as a small family car is unoptimized, immediately displaying his ignorance when it comes to the meaning of the word optimization and completely blowing past the notion of how good the graphics actually are as a key factor in the relationship between performance and hardware.

Stopped watching there, if the guy doesn't even understand what the word optimized means in a gaming context then I think there's little hope for the rest of that video.

That's not really what his review was portraying. That's just a bad opening statement in my opinion. He really focuses on differences in opinions of people and how if someone doesn't like something doesn't mean its worthless or you should not like it. If a person reviews a game and states the dislikes, it may be a reason for you to like the game.

And that most of all, people who say your opinion means nothing because you didn't play the last game, or you don't know the difference between the last one and this one.

The point is that you have to understand your critic to base your opinion of weather he's right or wrong.

What he says is part right, when you do a reboot you loose some of the fan base. I liked cod games...after ghosts, I'm no longer buying cod games. Over time, you are expected to loose fan base.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

Yeah reviews are subjective, most people get that and most people have reviewers they tend to align with.

The problem with Thief and other franchises are that fans are already invested in them, their time, money and also emotionally invested. They expect the sequels or expansions of the IP to honour the originals, or at the very least stick to the same basic mechanics and gameplay.

Thief got panned partly because it's just a mediocre game full of bugs and issues, but the really harsh reviews came from players of the original games who are fans who supported the series and who actually care about the mediocrity.

If you take something people love and you shit all over it, then it's going to suffer negative reception because of that. Had they decided to go in a different direction and simply invent a new IP to make a mediocre dumbed down game out of, literally no one would have cared.

This shouldn't surprise anyone, except for many those like TB who didn't even play the originals (I've read somewhere), if it was a favorite game of his which was being made into a sequel and totally ruined I suspect we'd see different commentary.

Fans are emotionally invested in franchises, they care, that's what it means to be a fan. When to remake or extend existing IP and you do it a disservice, you run the risk of bad press from the fans - that's just the reality of the situation.

 

[BSim500]

Using "consolization" as an insult...

Consolization isn't an insult, it's an observation of the many sacrifices that often have to be made with designing a games primarily for joypads then lazily "porting" it to keyboard & mice (with variable results, ie laggy input or being artificially limited to the number of input keys) as well as HUD choices (2ft vs 10ft design decisions without any attempt at HUD scaling (stock Oblivion, etc)).

"You are not special because you paid more for your pc."

No-one claimed to be, but then neither are those who shout "I hate whiners" upon hearing others expressing entirely valid criticism...

A relative bought Thief this morning, and I just called in and spent 30 mins playing the start. Good God is this game dumbed down even by "Deadly Shadows" standards. The biggest annoyance was the way the screen flashed white every time your visibility changed "just in case" you were too stupid to use the light gem...

The game actually somehow manages to have even smaller "zones" than Deadly Shadows. The zombie like outstretched arms when crouching also look pretty silly & unrealistic after the first few minutes. The AI genuinely is as dumb as some reviews are claiming. If your elevation changes enemies stop pursuing. I run up a flight of steps, and the guard literally just stood there staring... It's extremely linear, and you can't even jump on a barrel 2ft high without being "permitted" in certain areas.

The button remapping didn't work very well with the use key not working on the mouse's right button when lockpicking and needing to be pressed on the keyboard. In fact, even simple actions like jimmying open a window involve a consolized (there said it again!) button mashing fest. The sound balancing is also way off - many sounds all sound exactly the same distance and remain the same volume even after moving behind a concrete wall.

Sorry, cmdrdredd, but some games deserve to get bashed for treating you like you have special needs (and not bothering to figure out WHAT they're supposed to be a remake of)...

 

[EDUSAN]

Deus Ex: HR is like Thief, a new game from an old franchise, but... you didnt see too many people complaining about it... they did that game good.

I played the original Deus Ex, and even though i didnt like the new one AS much, i was satisfied with their new approach.

Clearly they didnt manage to do this with Thief

 

[PrincessFrosty]

Consolization isn't an insult, it's an observation of the many sacrifices that often have to be made with designing a games primarily for joypads then lazily "porting" it to keyboard & mice (with variable results, ie laggy input or being artificially limited to the number of input keys) as well as HUD choices (2ft vs 10ft design decisions without any attempt at HUD scaling (stock Oblivion, etc)).

Exactly this.

I'd also like to add that console players also tend to have different habits, on average they tend not to complete single player campaigns over a certain length, they generally require more aids to game play like auto aim, grenade indicators, etc. They tend to have a younger audience with a shorter attention span and have a much bigger casual market. They also typically have less interest in modding, after market modification and user created content even when it's available.

So it's not just technical constraints like you mention, consolization actually effects many more aspects, we actually observe very real differences in player behaviour which result in things like shorter games, more cinematic games, less skill based games, more hand holding and more narrative driven, and lack modding tools.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Deus Ex: HR is like Thief, a new game from an old franchise, but... you didnt see too many people complaining about it... they did that game good.

I played the original Deus Ex, and even though i didnt like the new one AS much, i was satisfied with their new approach.

Clearly they didnt manage to do this with Thief

I thought Deus EX HR was very faithful to Deus Ex. Very similar gameplay. It's just that Deus EX:HR had a poor ending and the boss fights were boring. But overall it was very close to the original and a good game in its own right

 

[Sulaco]

So what your saying is that when they make a game that is a sequel to or uses the same name as an older game they aren't allowed to add anything that is considered standard in the industry today? Seriously...voice acting?? You complain they gave the characters voices?

First off, you sound remarkably ignorant about what you're talking about. No where did I or anyone say that "giving the characters voices" was bad. If you knew anything about what you were talking about, you'd know the characters in the series were always voiced, during cutscenes and gameplay. Nobody has a problem with that. It's how it was handled.

Second off, IGN specifically mentioned in their review that the voice acting and characters in this new title are flat, uninspired, and cliche.

...He [Garrett] doesn't have the charm, either in his flat voice acting, or his lame, poorly lips-ynched dialogue

That's IGN. Not me. But I suppose they're "butthurt PC snobs too.

As for the rest of your argument, that gaming has changed and it's a business and game companies are not our best buddies, all condescension aside, when a company forgets its core demographic and fanbase, in a vain attempt to lure other gamers who have no interest in that style of game, problems happen.

Look at Resident Evil or Silent Hill, or countless others, where the developers have admitted they didn't meet expectations in sales and scores because they purposefully strayed too far from the original formula, in an attempt to attract a new demographic.

 

[TheSlamma]

yesterday i saw the totalbiscuit video of it. I was shocked at the part in which he said that the new thief doesnt have the rope arrow that the old thief had to produce new paths.

I mean... it is kinda unaceptable that a 10years old game was more open in its small spaces than a brand new game with huge open places

im probably gonna pick it up eventually cause the game doesnt look bad, but its a pity

Rope arrow is in the first 3 minutes of the game. But one thing that was different. As you recall the rope arrow in the last 3 games was to any wood surface and then vine arrow worked on almost anything, this one in the prologue level only worked on a specific spot so I didn't care for that. Hopefully it opens up later and is less linear.

 

[thedosbox]

Rope arrow is in the first 3 minutes of the game. But one thing that was different. As you recall the rope arrow in the last 3 games was to any wood surface

Deadly Shadows did not have rope arrows. Instead, you had climbing gloves.

 

[HeXen]

A relative bought Thief this morning, and I just called in and spent 30 mins playing the start. Good God is this game dumbed down even by "Deadly Shadows" standards. The biggest annoyance was the way the screen flashed white every time your visibility changed "just in case" you were too stupid to use the light gem...

The game actually somehow manages to have even smaller "zones" than Deadly Shadows. The zombie like outstretched arms when crouching also look pretty silly & unrealistic after the first few minutes. The AI genuinely is as dumb as some reviews are claiming. If your elevation changes enemies stop pursuing. I run up a flight of steps, and the guard literally just stood there staring... It's extremely linear, and you can't even jump on a barrel 2ft high without being "permitted" in certain areas.

The button remapping didn't work very well with the use key not working on the mouse's right button when lockpicking and needing to be pressed on the keyboard. In fact, even simple actions like jimmying open a window involve a consolized (there said it again!) button mashing fest. The sound balancing is also way off - many sounds all sound exactly the same distance and remain the same volume even after moving behind a concrete wall.

Sorry, cmdrdredd, but some games deserve to get bashed for treating you like you have special needs (and not bothering to figure out WHAT they're supposed to be a remake of)...

I could go on with many complaints about Thief 1 and 2 just as easily and I don't know how any game could be more linear than those 2 were. Contrast is bad, too much wasted space with nothing there, very buggy AI and as stupid as it gets and you didn't jimmy windows, there was just a very limited select couple per level that you just jumped into. The city felt about as dead as a town with the plague where robots live and had no need for anything but candles, carrots, bread, chairs and coins.

So low and behold that games yesterday are buggy with various issues just like modern games are...it's never changed and perhaps may never. However I think everyone's memory gets a little fuzzy in comparisons.

 

[sze5003]

I've played a bit of thief tonite on ps4. I definitely see frames drop during cutscenes. It did say a download was ready to install but I didn't install it and kept playing. So far the atmosphere is interesting, you have to keep quiet and hidden and I haven't played a stealth game in a while, nor am I too good. It's fun sneaking around stealing coins from guards and such. On the master difficulty guards do see you easier than on normal. I did get caught a bunch of times.

One thing I don't like is the controls seem kind of clunky but after sometime they get better once you get used to it.

I like making my way around trying to grab anything unseen. At times I wonder if I should take down someone or not, that's my biggest concern. Not knowing when to use a take down or chance sneaking again.
So far I'm liking the game and its really not as bad as everyone is making it out to be.

 

[runzwithsizorz]

Too bad, I was looking forward to this game. Not saying I will never buy it, but will wait for bargain prices. The killers for me are lack of an intelligent plot and AI intelligence, poor voice acting, weird jump controls and limits where you can jump, sloppy keyboard/mouse controls, limits on rope climbing and sound balancing. I remember sound being one or the most important parts of the games. And no modding?

I assume that some of the bugs will be fixed by patches, and the "extra aides" can be disabeled, but some of the gameplay decisions are just plain incomprehensible to me...what is the point of all the button mashing, no jump control, limited rope climbing, etc. Are these so difficult or expensive to include?
So will wait for Witcher 3...at least I can guarantee that game will be well crafted, well executed with no strange keyboard/mouse issues, a decent plot, good voice acting and a fabulous world to play in.

The Wife

 

[TheSlamma]

Deadly Shadows did not have rope arrows. Instead, you had climbing gloves.

yeah that's right

doesn't dismantle my statement though.

Anyway I am liking the game a lot

 

[zerogear]

And this is why the pc gaming community has a terrible reputation in general folks.


Using "consolization" as an insult and calling anyone who isn't all like "consoles suck...pc only...master race forever dur hur" a casual is as lame as it gets. They are just games and the platform doesn't mean a thing anymore. You are not special because you paid more for your pc.

 

[TheSlamma]

I've played a bit of thief tonite on ps4. I definitely see frames drop during cutscenes. It did say a download was ready to install but I didn't install it and kept playing. So far the atmosphere is interesting, you have to keep quiet and hidden and I haven't played a stealth game in a while, nor am I too good. It's fun sneaking around stealing coins from guards and such. On the master difficulty guards do see you easier than on normal. I did get caught a bunch of times.

One thing I don't like is the controls seem kind of clunky but after sometime they get better once you get used to it.

I like making my way around trying to grab anything unseen. At times I wonder if I should take down someone or not, that's my biggest concern. Not knowing when to use a take down or chance sneaking again.
So far I'm liking the game and its really not as bad as everyone is making it out to be.

That's a weakness of the PS4 then. I'm actually getting great control from M/KB and I have killer framerates on my PC on ultra @ 120hz. The control is way better than the body swivel that they did in T3

 

[TheSlamma]

Consolization isn't an insult, it's an observation of the many sacrifices that often have to be made with designing a games primarily for joypads then lazily "porting" it to keyboard & mice (with variable results, ie laggy input or being artificially limited to the number of input keys) as well as HUD choices (2ft vs 10ft design decisions without any attempt at HUD scaling (stock Oblivion, etc)).



No-one claimed to be, but then neither are those who shout "I hate whiners" upon hearing others expressing entirely valid criticism...

A relative bought Thief this morning, and I just called in and spent 30 mins playing the start. Good God is this game dumbed down even by "Deadly Shadows" standards. The biggest annoyance was the way the screen flashed white every time your visibility changed "just in case" you were too stupid to use the light gem...

The game actually somehow manages to have even smaller "zones" than Deadly Shadows. The zombie like outstretched arms when crouching also look pretty silly & unrealistic after the first few minutes. The AI genuinely is as dumb as some reviews are claiming. If your elevation changes enemies stop pursuing. I run up a flight of steps, and the guard literally just stood there staring... It's extremely linear, and you can't even jump on a barrel 2ft high without being "permitted" in certain areas.

The button remapping didn't work very well with the use key not working on the mouse's right button when lockpicking and needing to be pressed on the keyboard. In fact, even simple actions like jimmying open a window involve a consolized (there said it again!) button mashing fest. The sound balancing is also way off - many sounds all sound exactly the same distance and remain the same volume even after moving behind a concrete wall.

Sorry, cmdrdredd, but some games deserve to get bashed for treating you like you have special needs (and not bothering to figure out WHAT they're supposed to be a remake of)...

I had the AI chase me up 2 flights of stairs no problem.