"There is no moral equivalence between Israel and Hamas"

[Abwx]

So because Israel is supposedly breaking the law by occupying disputed territory, the palestinians are therefore justified in using whatever means necessary to destroy Israel? And the palestinians are under no obligation to cease their attacks or offer any concessions until Israel gives in everything and goes back to the 1948 borders?

Using your same logic, since the Arab League broke the law by invading Israel multiple times, Israel is therefore justified in using whatever means necessary to defend themselves, right?

You evaded my previous question. If the justification for the palestinians' violence is that their land is being occupied, what was their original justification in 1948 for invading?

By rewriting constantly history you wont make any other point than to display your complete lack of historical knowledge, it s not like the member you re answeringTO is as ignorant of all historical and legal issues as you obviously do, hence you ll keep forever questioning not his supposed misunderstanding of your questions but your own intellectual poverty.

 

[fskimospy]

So because Israel is supposedly breaking the law by occupying disputed territory, the palestinians are therefore justified in using whatever means necessary to destroy Israel? And the palestinians are under no obligation to cease their attacks or offer any concessions until Israel gives in everything and goes back to the 1948 borders?

Using your same logic, since the Arab League broke the law by invading Israel multiple times, Israel is therefore justified in using whatever means necessary to defend themselves, right?

You evaded my previous question. If the justification for the palestinians' violence is that their land is being occupied, what was their original justification in 1948 for invading?

I didn't evade your previous question, I just didn't answer irrelevant tangents you're trying to go off on.

According to international law what Israel is doing is illegal. Full stop. You can choose to endorse their illegal behavior if you want, but let's make no mistake about what they are doing.

 

[bshole]

The problem is, for Jews, having suffered the holocaust, living anywhere else in the entire world is even riskier. Israel is the only place where they really have control over their own defense and destiny.

Get real. That is utter nonsense. Jews are perfectly safe living in America (well at they are as safe as anybody else living in America).

 

[cabri]

Your information on the UN is outdated. Palestine was recognized by the UN as a state in November of 2012.

How does that change your thinking?

they were accorded non-Member Observer State not a full fledged statehood

Voting by an overwhelming majority — 138 in favour to 9 against (Canada, Czech Republic, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia (Federated States of), Nauru, Panama, Palau, United States), with 41 abstentions — the General Assembly today accorded Palestine non-Member Observer State status in the United Nations

Statements on Question of Palestine

MOOTAZ AHMADEIN KHALIL ( Egypt) congratulated the Palestinian people for having obtained the status of Non-Member Observer State. The adoption of the resolution by an enormous majority showed the international community’s recognition of the right of Palestine to have a Government and a territory with secure borders, in spite of the occupation and the occupying Power’s continuing acquisition of territory. The international community had affirmed that it was able to take the “right decision” when political will was present. He hoped that, in the near future, the Security Council would be able to undertake its responsibility through a similar decision, making Palestine a full Member State of the United Nations.

Link

So does being a non-member Observer status state be the same as a full Member State?

If so; then why the distinction?

 

[cabri]

By rewriting constantly history you wont make any other point than to display your complete lack of historical knowledge, it s not like the member you re answeringTO is as ignorant of all historical and legal issues as you obviously do, hence you ll keep forever questioning not his supposed misunderstanding of your questions but your own intellectual poverty.

If you history views are filtering out facts that do not match your biases; then is ones history accurate.

Your posts here demonstrate one side view points to current facts; is it also possible that you are doing the same for historical facts.

 

[bshole]

By rewriting constantly history you wont make any other point than to display your complete lack of historical knowledge, it s not like the member you re answeringTO is as ignorant of all historical and legal issues as you obviously do, hence you ll keep forever questioning not his supposed misunderstanding of your questions but your own intellectual poverty.

I am surprised that anybody can tell what you are trying to say. You mangle the English language worse than a house cat with a mouse. The best I can tell is that you don't like Jews. How completely original of you!

 

[QuantumPion]

I didn't evade your previous question, I just didn't answer irrelevant tangents you're trying to go off on.

According to international law what Israel is doing is illegal. Full stop. You can choose to endorse their illegal behavior if you want, but let's make no mistake about what they are doing.

What the Arab League and Palestinians did is illegal. Full stop. They declared war and tried to invade and commit genocide. Multimple times. Let's make no mistake about what YOU are doing. You are quite clearly and unequivocally saying that the Jews do not have the right to exist, and their being alive is what is illegal. I'm sorry, but this is the end of the discussion. There is no more argument to have with bigoted genocidal hate-mongers.

 

[Abwx]

French mainstream right wing paper video show clearly bombings made at long range with tanks targeting a neighborhood, that is, random killings on civilians as the revenge for the 15 military killed afew hours earlier..



Besides, Hamas freedom fighter did kill 7 israelis nazi soldier today in "israeli" territory, who said that Hamas freedom fighter needs human shields..?.

To this day Hamas killed 25 militaries and made 2 collateral damage, to compare to the israhelli targeting civilians as a trophy for their bloodthirsty instincts.

The human shield myth is a zio nazi propganda tool to cover the massive crimes and random killings they are pepetrating, as aknowledged by the video.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/internationa...gaza-a-connu-sajournee-la-plus-meurtriere.php

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_aggression

War of aggression

A war of aggression, sometimes also war of conquest, is a military conflict waged without the justification of self-defense, usually for territorial gain and subjugation. The phrase is distinctly modern and diametrically opposed to the prior legal international standard of "might makes right", under the medieval and pre-historic beliefs of right of conquest. Since the Korean War of the early 1950s, waging such a war of aggression is a crime under the customary international law.

 

[realibrad]

What the Arab League and Palestinians did is illegal. Full stop. They declared war and tried to invade and commit genocide. Multimple times. Let's make no mistake about what YOU are doing. You are quite clearly and unequivocally saying that the Jews do not have the right to exist, and their being alive is what is illegal. I'm sorry, but this is the end of the discussion. There is no more argument to have with bigoted genocidal hate-mongers.

I think that is a bit much. Arguing the legal status of settlements is totally different than the legitimacy of the Jews to exist.

 

[Abwx]

I am surprised that anybody can tell what you are trying to say. You mangle the English language worse than a house cat with a mouse. The best I can tell is that you don't like Jews. How completely original of you!

You got it wrong, i dont like the zionist criminals that are constantly perpetrating war crimes while unshamelessly crying victimhood.

According to these zionist s shills we should make fool of ourselves and reverse the reality just to make them feel comfortable, not only they are nazis criminals but they are also, who would have guessed, mental enslavers, as only mental slaves, the kind of quantumpion, can trust their criminal fairy tales..

 

[emperus]

What the Arab League and Palestinians did is illegal. Full stop. They declared war and tried to invade and commit genocide. Multimple times. Let's make no mistake about what YOU are doing. You are quite clearly and unequivocally saying that the Jews do not have the right to exist, and their being alive is what is illegal. I'm sorry, but this is the end of the discussion. There is no more argument to have with bigoted genocidal hate-mongers.

Your propaganda is strong.

 

[fskimospy]

What the Arab League and Palestinians did is illegal. Full stop. They declared war and tried to invade and commit genocide. Multimple times. Let's make no mistake about what YOU are doing. You are quite clearly and unequivocally saying that the Jews do not have the right to exist, and their being alive is what is illegal. I'm sorry, but this is the end of the discussion. There is no more argument to have with bigoted genocidal hate-mongers.

lol. Yet again when confronted with reality you fly into a rage, make a bunch of stupid strawmen, then run away.

This is a common tactic; any time Israeli actions are criticized people who are attempting to shut down debate equate criticism with a desire for a new holocaust or something like that. It's transparently stupid.

 

[Abwx]

If you history views are filtering out facts that do not match your biases; then is ones history accurate.

Your posts here demonstrate one side view points to current facts; is it also possible that you are doing the same for historical facts.

History is documented.

If the case was brought to the ICJ judges would considers such quotes as prove of a political will that was illegal according to interantional laws.

Even before the partition the man that would become the first prime minister of this usupatory state expressed the zionists future plans :

"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

A few hours after the partition was voted the zionists publicly stated their stance, wich is that they wanted all palestine :

"The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever."
-- Menachem Begin, the day after the U.N. vote to partition Palestine.

The rest is the fullfillment of this criminal project by all following zionazis prime ministers including the current one :

"[Israel will] create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the west Bank to Jordan. To achieve this we have to come to agreement with King Hussein and not with Yasser Arafat."
-- Yitzhak Rabin (a "Prince of Peace" by Clinton's standards), explaining his method of ethnically cleansing the occupied land without stirring a world outcry. (Quoted in David Shipler in the New York Times, 04/04/1983 citing Meir Cohen's remarks to the Knesset's foreign affairs and defense committee on March 16.)

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

All theses would be evidences that the israhelli political rulers are expressely recognizing that they are the perpetrators of this criminal war.

 

[Nebor]

International law is like any other law: It's really just there to keep the poor people in line.

 

[JEDIYoda]

The human shield myth is a zio nazi propganda tool to cover the massive crimes and random killings they are pepetrating, as aknowledged by the video.

Nowhere in that video doe it address the human shield issue......so why post it , unless you want to keep Palestinians being killed in the forefront of your diatribe?

Of course you could make the idiotic comparison that Hamas does not use Palestinians as human shields all the time.......which of course if true!! But the fact is they have used Palestinains as hUman shields...

http://www.idfblog.com/blog/2014/07/08/hamas-uses-human-shields/

http://intercessors.wordpress.com/2014/07/15/hamas-use-of-human-shields/

Hamas’ use of Human Shields is a War Crime
July 14, 2014

“This is the entire difference between us and Hamas – we are using defensive systems against missiles to protect the residents of Israel and they are using the residents of Gaza to protect arsenals of missiles. Nothing better underscores the difference in this campaign.”
– — –

International law explicitly forbids directing civilians to shield military objectives from attack.

The terrorist organization Hamas deliberately uses Palestinian civilians as human shields, and has a long history of doing so. Hamas hopes to achieve two goals by using human shields: to deter IDF attacks on legitimate military targets, and to exploit any incidental harm that is caused as a result of IDF military activity.

Hamas’ use of human shields is a clear and deliberate violation of international law. Under the law of armed conflict, the presence of the civilian population cannot be used to render certain points immune from military operations, or to shield one’s own military operations. International law also explicitly forbids directing the civilian population to shield military objectives from attack.

Hamas’ use of human shields not only makes the IDF’s efforts to reduce civilian harm more difficult, but is also potentially lethal for civilians in Gaza. Despite the IDF’s best efforts to avoid incidental harm, the increased presence of civilians in areas of planned IDF activity raises the risk of harm to the civilian population.

Hamas knows very well that the IDF does everything that it can to avoid civilian casualties. That is why in recent days Hamas issued messages on its television, radio, and social media platforms to ignore the IDF’s warnings of impending strikes and to remain in their homes.

“We call on our Palestinian people, particularly the residents of northwest Gaza, not to obey what is written in the pamphlets distributed by the Israeli occupation army,” Hamas announced through official media channels on July 13. “We call on them to remain in their homes and disregard the demands to leave, however serious the threat may be.”

The Hamas Interior Ministry has also called on the residents of northern Gaza to stay in their homes and ignore IDF flyers, distributing its message through official Hamas TV.

Despite Hamas’ widespread use of human shields, the IDF continues to make substantial efforts to minimize harm to the civilian population during its military operations. The IDF does this in a number of ways, including by dropping leaflets warning of planned military operations, making personalized phone calls to buildings designated for attack as legitimate military targets, and in some cases, releasing low-explosive munitions to the top of a building as a warning of an impending strike.

Many times, the IDF has called off airstrikes after identifying civilians gathering as human shields in the vicinity of the military objective.

The IDF will continue to conduct its operations in full accordance with international law, including by attacking only legitimate military targets, and will continue its efforts to minimize harm to Palestinian civilians.

 

[Abwx]

Nowhere in that video doe it address the human shield issue......so why post it , unless you want to keep Palestinians being killed in the forefront of your diatribe?

The israelis nazis are doing long range bombardments using tanks that are anyway innaccurate, shells explode randomly on streets like the one where there is about 40 killed , almost all being women and children, to covers thoses war crimes the despicables zionazis are deseperately spreading lies by telling the gullible US media that they were killed while Hamas fighters were using them as shelters, it is plainly obvious that there are no fighters in the streets covered with evidences of your bloodthirst of palestinians lives.

So far Hamas freedom fighters killed 25 militaries, at least, and did only two unwanted collateral damage, while the zionist war crimes specialized army is bombing a 5000 inhabitants/km2 city with bombs roughly a half ton each
and killed, but it was the goal isnt it, at least 90% civilians among the 560 killed to this day.

 

[Ventanni]

The israelis nazis are doing long range bombardments using tanks that are anyway innaccurate, shells explode randomly on streets like the one where there is about 40 killed , almost all being women and children, to covers thoses war crimes the despicables zionazis are deseperately spreading lies by telling the gullible US media that they were killed while Hamas fighters were using them as shelters, it is plainly obvious that there are no fighters in the streets covered with evidences of your bloodthirst of palestinians lives.

So far Hamas freedom fighters killed 25 militaries, at least, and did only two unwanted collateral damage, while the zionist war crimes specialized army is bombing a 5000 inhabitants/km2 city with bombs roughly a half ton each
and killed, but it was the goal isnt it, at least 90% civilians among the 560 killed to this day.

Alright, enough with the unnecessary rhetoric. Calling IDF forces Zionist Nazis just makes your argument weaker in the eyes of those you're trying to convince. At the end of the day, we treat this similarly like we treat children.

A. Share and be nice, dagnabbit.
B. Don't want to get beat up? Stop picking on the big guy in the neighborhood or else you're going to get your teeth kicked in.
C. Understand that this is war, and the reason why we don't like war is because lots, and lots, and lots, and lots of innocent civilians get killed in the process. Israel is not committing genocide here. This is just how war works. Lots of innocent people die in the process, and that's why we want to avoid it entirely.

The West gets this. The East, for the most part, gets this. The Middle East, however, has not seemed to learn the horrifying cost of unnecessary savagery. Maybe at the end of this craziness, the civilians of Gaza will stop supporting a political institution that leads them to ruin.

You want to live by the sword, then you're going to die by the sword.

 

[Victorian Gray]

That s not even an hyperbole, they are actualy that primitive.

They took revenge of their military losses by killing scores of civilians, the video above is the morning after the night when 13-15 israelis soldiers were killed, and it s clear on the video that they torned apart, using heavy machine gun mounted on helicopters, children, women and elderly that were fleeing the neighborhood in streets where thers was no fighters , we can see that there are only civilians of low age and women fleeing.

How would you call people acting so.?.

What is the rationale if not staging the most despicable terrorism one could imagine, that is using heavy weapons against the most defensless civilians deliberatly..?.

Would those perpetrators have the ridiculous claims to be accounted as human beings.?.

Theses are beasts, the pictures do not lie , only beasts act as savagely, even if their physical appearance make you think thet they are human, actualy they are not, you know the tree by its fruits , even if these are rotten fruits.

Language like you've been using simply presents you as a clown with nothing to say that's worth paying attention to. Hyperbole is *not* your friend here.

 

[werepossum]

The American reaction to a similar situation would be swift and brutal. Two dudes set off a bomb at a race in Boston and we suspended the constitution and instated de facto martial law across most of a US state. If Cuba started launching rockets at Miami they'd be flattened the next day. And the world would whine about it but eventually let it go. Israel isn't as powerful as America, and it's run by Jews, so the world feels free to hate and criticize them only.

QFT

There is no other nation that would put up with such attacks - or be expected to.

I am surprised that anybody can tell what you are trying to say. You mangle the English language worse than a house cat with a mouse. The best I can tell is that you don't like Jews. How completely original of you!

LOL Obviously English is not his native language, but he's expressing himself much better than would I in Arabic or French. I've read so many of his posts on this subject that now I have no problem understanding him 90% of the time.

 

[Whiskey16]

Were it me, I'd have fled or killed enough Palestinians to make them flee.

That's your latest diatribe of violent hate speech and incitement to genocide.

This forum is ill. Such violent extremism and inclination to terrorism is all too common and regular.

werepossum, you are consistent with a violently hateful and racist agenda:

If peace and security eventually require killing them all [Palestinians], they brought it on themselves. That's the beauty of democracy.

I won't apologize that you find this view disturbing, for it's a disturbing view. But at some point even Old Yeller had to be put down.

Keep any "disturbing views" that advocate the deaths of an entire population to yourself. They are not welcome here.
admin allisolm

You're not alone today, either:

I say good, run the whole population of the Gaza into the ocean and they will all be better off for it.

Upon this consistent theme of generalised hatred and supremacist extremism to exterminate populations, I do recall this week old post:

Finally, a heads up to Zebo and werepossum and Nebor. While Nebor often posts for troll-like effect, along with Z and possum, I "know" all three of you to be intelligent and non-simplistic people. And yet, crude generalization posts you have made in this thread are neither, imho, and disturb and even anger me.

Caution: high dudgeon from me will soon follow. You might consider it-- what's the word I'm looking for here? -- ahhhh, yes, a crusade!

 

[michal1980]

That's your latest diatribe of violent hate speech and incitement to genocide.

This forum is ill. Such violent extremism and inclination to terrorism is all too common and regular.

werepossum, you are consistent with a violently hateful and racist agenda:

and what does hamas want? Can they stand living with Jews? Or do they want to kill them all as well?

 

[michal1980]

The israelis nazis are doing long range bombardments using tanks that are anyway innaccurate, shells explode randomly on streets like the one where there is about 40 killed , almost all being women and children, to covers thoses war crimes the despicables zionazis are deseperately spreading lies by telling the gullible US media that they were killed while Hamas fighters were using them as shelters, it is plainly obvious that there are no fighters in the streets covered with evidences of your bloodthirst of palestinians lives.

So far Hamas freedom fighters killed 25 militaries, at least, and did only two unwanted collateral damage, while the zionist war crimes specialized army is bombing a 5000 inhabitants/km2 city with bombs roughly a half ton each
and killed, but it was the goal isnt it, at least 90% civilians among the 560 killed to this day.

and those rockets hamas is shooting are laser guided right?

 

[surfsatwerk]

I came for the next episode of "Hitler did nothing wrong", and you guys did not disappoint.

 

[Whiskey16]

I came for the next episode of "Hitler did nothing wrong", and you guys did not disappoint.

Excuse me, are you referring the violent, genocidal, and terrorism advocating little 'Hitlers' that this forum evidently has within its community?

It seems to be rather disparagingly one-sided, though. Thankfully, I fail to see any members clamouring for the killing of any of my fellow Jewish brethren. Rather, we have concisely generalised and open calls to massacre and exterminate Palestinians.

Where may the problem lie?