"There is no moral equivalence between Israel and Hamas"

[werepossum]

Stop sending rockets. Stop terrorist attacks. Stop attacking Israel. If Israel attacks despite these concessions, then we'll know indeed who the villain is.

...yes, exactly. They took it in response to aggression. Would most normal people return gambling winnings to the casino?

Egypt rolled the dice. They lost. Yet they got their money back.

Please source that, because Wikipedia is pretty sure they did withdraw. And afterwards:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza#Execution_of_the_plan

In defense of the Palestinians, they urgent needed the materials in those synagogues and greenhouses for a variety of humanitarian needs such as mortars, tunnels, suicide vests, rockets . . .

 

[Abwx]

losses. Is Israel deliberately targeting civilians?

Israhelli zionist nazis are targeting the most defensless civilians.

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/massacre-shujaiyeh-shelters.html

Only women, children and old people, torned apart by helicopters machine guns, that is terrorism and war crimes at will...

ALL the rest of your talks, you and the other israhelli war criminal apologists, are just running in circular arguments infused by the zionists nazi AIPAC and other brainwashing agencies.

 

[cabri]

What should they do exactly, and why would it succeed?



Ceded land that they didn't own. How generous in them.

Israel never stopped settlement activity in 2005. In fact, the numbers of settlers in Palestinian territory increased substantially in 2005.

In Gaza they did.

In the West bank they have not.

There was no country that actually owned this land.

Egypt and Trans-Jordan "held the land" in trust until the power that be decided to grant a Palestinian state. At the time, the Arabs did not want a two state solutions; to accept a Palestinian state along side of Israel was to admit legitimacy to Israel.

Notice that neither country asked for the land to be returned from them after it was lost in conflicts with Israel.

So with no Palestinian state, and a vacuum caused by conquest and then abdication; Israel has that territory and control of it. When there is an official state of Palestine, then Israel may need to rework boundaries.
At present, there is no official recognized state of Palestine; just declarations of statehood by a group of people and an acknowledgment of observer status at the UN. Observer status is not a full fledged statement of being a country.

 

[cabri]

Israhelli zionist nazis are targeting the most defensless civilians.

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/massacre-shujaiyeh-shelters.html

Only women, children and old people, torned apart by helicopters machine guns.

ALL the rest of your talks, you and the other israhelli war criminal apologists, are just running in circular arguments infused by the zionists nazi AIPAC and other brainwashing agencies.

what is bold is not the facts - it is your flame bait.

Also, they were told to evacuate. Many either did not or were not allowed to.

And that area is where a large amount of rocket launches were from.

but we understand that you feel that nothing should be done by Israel to stop the attacks. :thumbsdown:
however, being brainwashed is expected

 

[fskimospy]

In Gaza they did.

In the West bank they have not.

There was no country that actually owned this land.

Egypt and Trans-Jordan "held the land" in trust until the power that be decided to grant a Palestinian state. At the time, the Arabs did not want a two state solutions; to accept a Palestinian state along side of Israel was to admit legitimacy to Israel.

Notice that neither country asked for the land to be returned from them after it was lost in conflicts with Israel.

So with no Palestinian state, and a vacuum caused by conquest and then abdication; Israel has that territory and control of it. When there is an official state of Palestine, then Israel may need to rework boundaries.
At present, there is no official recognized state of Palestine; just declarations of statehood by a group of people and an acknowledgment of observer status at the UN. Observer status is not a full fledged statement of being a country.

Your information on the UN is outdated. Palestine was recognized by the UN as a state in November of 2012.

How does that change your thinking?

 

[Abwx]

what is bold is not the facts - it is your flame bait.

Also, they were told to evacuate. Many either did not or were not allowed to.

And that area is where a large amount of rocket launches were from.

but we understand that you feel that nothing should be done by Israel to stop the attacks. :thumbdown:

The video at the meddle of the page say it all, theses are women, children and old people, and they were obviously gunned by heavy calibers fom an helicopter that we can hear while the camera is displaced on the street.

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/massacre-shujaiyeh-shelters.html

They were savagely assassinated while fleeing the leveled neighborhood with the rest of the people you can see at the start of the video.


This is terrorism and genocide since they were killed because they are palestinians, that is crime against humanity, no human being could act like this , only primitive and savage people can act this despicably.

 

[Nebor]

Israhelli zionist nazis are targeting the most defensless civilians.

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/massacre-shujaiyeh-shelters.html

Only women, children and old people, torned apart by helicopters machine guns, that is terrorism and war crimes at will...

ALL the rest of your talks, you and the other israhelli war criminal apologists, are just running in circular arguments infused by the zionists nazi AIPAC and other brainwashing agencies.

That seems like a terribly inefficient way to go about conducting a genocide against "the most defensless civilians." It's expensive to boot. Why not use your helicopters and air strikes to target fighting aged men first, then when only the defenseless remain you can just walk in and put a bullet in the back of their heads?

I mean, either the Israelis are wildly inept at conducting a genocide (which seems odd, considering their personal experience with it in Europe) or they aren't conducting one at all.

 

[fskimospy]

That seems like a terribly inefficient way to go about conducting a genocide against "the most defensless civilians." It's expensive to boot. Why not use your helicopters and air strikes to target fighting aged men first, then when only the defenseless remain you can just walk in and put a bullet in the back of their heads?

I mean, either the Israelis are wildly inept at conducting a genocide (which seems odd, considering their personal experience with it in Europe) or they aren't conducting one at all.

I agree, the term genocide is woefully misapplied here. What they are doing is actually ethnic cleansing and they've been quite successful at that.

 

[Abwx]

That seems like a terribly inefficient way to go about conducting a genocide against "the most defensless civilians." It's expensive to boot. Why not use your helicopters and air strikes to target fighting aged men first, then when only the defenseless remain you can just walk in and put a bullet in the back of their heads?

I mean, either the Israelis are wildly inept at conducting a genocide (which seems odd, considering their personal experience with it in Europe) or they aren't conducting one at all.

The purpose was to avenge the 15 israehelli terrorist soldiers killed the previous night, as a revenge the israhelli criminals targeted random people the morning that followed, this is what this video captured, they are fleeing said neighborhood where the israhelli were killed and wich was about to be completely leveled.

The zionazis are thus relying to genocidal behaviours as a mean to terrorize the palestinians, the bill is increasing and this pseudo state wont last more than the christians kingdoms founded by warlors did last in their time, so be prepared, you or thoses who will inherit your deeds, to be treated the way you re treating others, with the difference that you will deserve it fully, being the agressor and land stealers from the start, or will you say the same as Hitler when he claimed that his reich would last one thousands years.?..

 

[Harabec]

I agree, the term genocide is woefully misapplied here. What they are doing is actually ethnic cleansing and they've been quite successful at that.

Ah, your true colors are revealed.
Yep, the poor defenseless children are the ones fighting back and shooting rockets non-stop.

The equation is simple.
Stop trying to kill us all the damn time = you will get peace, rebuilding of your land and prosperity.
Hamas just sucks at math.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

The purpose was to avenge the 15 israehelli terrorist soldiers killed the previous night, as a revenge the israhelli criminals targeted random people the morning that followed, this is what this video captured, they are fleeing said neighborhood where the israhelli were killed and wich was about to be completely leveled.

The zionazis are thus relying to genocidal behaviours as a mean to terrorize the palestinians, the bill is increasing and this pseudo state wont last more than the christians kingdoms founded by warlors did last in their time, so be prepared, you or thoses who will inherit your deeds, to be treated the way you re treating others, with the difference that you will deserve it fully, being the agressor and land stealers from the start, or will you say the same as Hitler when he claimed that his reich would last one thousands years.?..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

[Abwx]

I agree, the term genocide is woefully misapplied here. What they are doing is actually ethnic cleansing and they've been quite successful at that.

The term genocide apply when one is killed because of his ethnicity, among others, the palestinians killed on the video where killed because they are palestinians, period, they were neither fighters nor political figures, they were children and women mainly and were targeted to increase the dead count because the zionists nazis couldnt stand the military losses they endured in this neighborhood a few hours earlier, so they relyied to genocidal practices as a vengence.

 

[fskimospy]

Ah, your true colors are revealed.
Yep, the poor defenseless children are the ones fighting back and shooting rockets non-stop.

The equation is simple.
Stop trying to kill us all the damn time = you will get peace, rebuilding of your land and prosperity.
Hamas just sucks at math.

No, Hamas is simply cynical and uninterested in peace. As for what the Palestinians will get if they just acquiesce to living quietly, don't make me laugh. If Israel were really interested in peace and prosperity for all you wouldn't be building illegal settlements in land you don't own.

You know it's bad when even the US is willing to condemn Israel over something.

 

[Harabec]

Ok, lets say Hamas is uninterested in peace. What do you do, then?

 

[fskimospy]

Ok, lets say Hamas is uninterested in peace. What do you do, then?

Show that you're genuinely interested in peace with the Palestinians who aren't part of Hamas (ie: a whole ton of them). In doing so, cease the rampant violations of the UN Charter and the Geneva Conventions. That means stop illegal settlements, dismantle the wall in the West Bank, reverse the illegal annexation of East Jerusalem, etc, etc. From there you work with Fatah and other groups.

Only one group is currently occupying the other. It's important to realize that when you're looking as to what should be done.

 

[werepossum]

Ok, lets say Hamas is uninterested in peace. What do you do, then?

Same thing you always do - kill the Jews. Second verse, same as the first. One little twist this time around, those trying to kill the Jews and/or trying to prevent them from having a nation where they are not living at the mercy of the majority are also calling the Jews Nazis. Evidently unintentional irony is in this year.

You guys have my admiration. Were it me, I'd have fled or killed enough Palestinians to make them flee. I really can't conceive of living in a nation where the risk of terrorism is so brutally commonplace.

 

[QuantumPion]

Show that you're genuinely interested in peace with the Palestinians who aren't part of Hamas (ie: a whole ton of them). In doing so, cease the rampant violations of the UN Charter and the Geneva Conventions. That means stop illegal settlements, dismantle the wall in the West Bank, reverse the illegal annexation of East Jerusalem, etc, etc. From there you work with Fatah and other groups.

Only one group is currently occupying the other. It's important to realize that when you're looking as to what should be done.

Israel already tried that. Dozens of times. Hamas still continued attacking Israel. So what's your plan B?

And for the last time no, Israel is not illegally occupying anything. When you try to invade someone and lose, your claim on that land is forfeited.

Who is to say that even if Israel ceded all land back to the original UN 1948 borders that Hamas would still attack because they want all of it? After all, what was the reason why the Arab League invaded in 1948? Their land had not been lost yet.

 

[QuantumPion]

I really can't conceive of living in a nation where the risk of terrorism is so brutally commonplace.

The problem is, for Jews, having suffered the holocaust, living anywhere else in the entire world is even riskier. Israel is the only place where they really have control over their own defense and destiny.

 

[fskimospy]

Israel already tried that. Dozens of times. Hamas still continued attacking Israel. So what's your plan B?

Abbas already tried that too. What did Israel do? Nothing. That's a big reason why Hamas is there in Gaza to begin with. My plan B is for Israel to actually do something.

And for the last time no, Israel is not illegally occupying anything. When you try to invade someone and lose, your claim on that land is forfeited.

Not according to the UN Charter. As soon as the world adopts the QuantumPion Charter we will change this.

 

[emperus]

The problem is, for Jews, having suffered the holocaust, living anywhere else in the entire world is even riskier. Israel is the only place where they really have control over their own defense and destiny.

How is that even true?

 

[Shyatic]

How is that even true?

It's not, obviously.

 

[Abwx]

Abbas already tried that too. What did Israel do? Nothing. That's a big reason why Hamas is there in Gaza to begin with. My plan B is for Israel to actually do something.



Not according to the UN Charter. As soon as the world adopts the QuantumPion Charter we will change this.

And not according to the zionists nazis, only a few hours after the UNO vote they expressely said that they were at war and were willing to attack the palestinians to seize their land, everywhere not only in the jewish part.

This is a declaration of war :

"The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever."
-- Menachem Begin, the day after the U.N. vote to partition Palestine.

First prime minister of this usurpatory state already aknowledged it ten years before the partition :

"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

These are the people that were "attacked first" by the palestinians according to the zio nazis supporters that hang by there repeating the zio lies as a gospel while the zio nazis are no more than a bunch of gangsters that prepared and staged a criminal coup.

 

[werepossum]

The problem is, for Jews, having suffered the holocaust, living anywhere else in the entire world is even riskier. Israel is the only place where they really have control over their own defense and destiny.

For Europe and Russia, I'd agree wholeheartedly. I don't think it's risky for Jews living in America or New Zealand or Australia, and I doubt that in the Asian nations Jews are treated any worse than any non-Asian. Most of that is speculation but I don't think anti-Jewish violence is particularly bad here, probably less so than anti-Muslim violence which itself is almost non-existent. Certainly though if I were a Jew in Europe my ass would be looking to emigrate to America where we have guaranteed freedom of religion and virtually all our Muslims are assimilating and non-radicalized.

 

[QuantumPion]

Not according to the UN Charter.

So because Israel is supposedly breaking the law by occupying disputed territory, the palestinians are therefore justified in using whatever means necessary to destroy Israel? And the palestinians are under no obligation to cease their attacks or offer any concessions until Israel gives in everything and goes back to the 1948 borders?

Using your same logic, since the Arab League broke the law by invading Israel multiple times, Israel is therefore justified in using whatever means necessary to defend themselves, right?

You evaded my previous question. If the justification for the palestinians' violence is that their land is being occupied, what was their original justification in 1948 for invading?

 

[Nebor]

Same thing you always do - kill the Jews. Second verse, same as the first. One little twist this time around, those trying to kill the Jews and/or trying to prevent them from having a nation where they are not living at the mercy of the majority are also calling the Jews Nazis. Evidently unintentional irony is in this year.

You guys have my admiration. Were it me, I'd have fled or killed enough Palestinians to make them flee. I really can't conceive of living in a nation where the risk of terrorism is so brutally commonplace.

The American reaction to a similar situation would be swift and brutal. Two dudes set off a bomb at a race in Boston and we suspended the constitution and instated de facto martial law across most of a US state. If Cuba started launching rockets at Miami they'd be flattened the next day. And the world would whine about it but eventually let it go. Israel isn't as powerful as America, and it's run by Jews, so the world feels free to hate and criticize them only.