"There is no moral equivalence between Israel and Hamas"

[emperus]

Irony.

You vs.Harabec is pretty much a perfect illustration of how the two sides of this conflict aren't morally equivalent.

Anyone who thinks a side represented by irrational morons like you could be equally reasoned with as the other side, is themselves an irrational moron that would be a rotten neighbor to have, good for not much else but violence and conflict.

But honestly, I'm starting to believe that Israeli leaders have no real desire for peace and this violence and conflict is in their best interest. That they can best control the region when the Palestinians are poor and incapable of development and the ability to resist. So they "mow the lawn" as they call it every couple of years to keep them in that place and to keep the status quo.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

They do not miss the point, they deflect it because they know that they are dishonnest and that lies are their common behaviours to cover their never ending war crimes perpetrations, thay are genuine terrorists by the fact that they are die hard supremacists, a "nation" of land stealers and primitives of the worst kind, first sentences they learn at schools are lies and zionist supremacism as the permanent course, so just imagine when "adults".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ66iHMCQls&bpctr=1406045492

Some feel that "primitives of the worst kind" are those who intentionally target and kill civilians...especially mentally depraved, self-righteous cowards who recruit women and children to perform these heinous acts instead of doing it themselves.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hild-sending-suicide-bomber-mother-death.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPU4UN03t7E

 

[fskimospy]

I was searching the press releases so i could answer your question.
i did not find an article saying that the kidnappers' home will be demolished, but rather that a warrant was issued and the matter will be discussed in court.

i did, however, find a court order to demolish the house of a gunman that killed an israeli officer in April, and that the court ordered the demolition because there was evidence that his wife and son were accomplices in the act. this could indicate that in the end the kidnappers' home might not be demolished if the court uses the same logic in this case.

you see, there is a judicial system in israel which is in place to make sure justice can be carried out.
for instance, several times the court has ordered israeli settlements in the west bank to be disbanded, and in other cases the court ordered demolition of homes in east jerusalem because they were built illegally.

This is the case for a tiny fraction of the overall illegal settlements.

in this case, demolition is the sanction imposed by the israeli court for crimes committed against it's people.
had the PA been policing their territory and keeping the peace on their end, this wouldn't have been necessary.

First, Israel engages in pre-trial demolitions: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/01/us-palestinians-israel-demolitions-idUSKBN0F64WY20140701

Justify that one, and please explain why pre-trial demolitions of Israeli homes have not happened despite numerous people confessing to the crime.

Second, even with judicial approval it is collective punishment that is inflicted upon Palestinians in violation of the Geneva Conventions. The fact that Israeli courts have endorsed these crimes doesn't actually make it better; if anything it makes it worse.

 

[cabri]

To misinform and derail this discussion, keep upon lying, cabri:

No, in fact, I have already entered into this discussion:



Critiquing Israel does not equate to any defence of Hamas.

cabri, after been corrected and informed, you have an option to recant your ill-formed charges against me.

I am asking if the pot is calling the kettle black?

You condemn Israel for attacking Gaza; yet seem to defend what Hamas is doing to provoke the attacks from Israel and do not condemn where the attacks are targeted.?

 

[emperus]

I am asking if the pot is calling the kettle black?

You condemn Israel for attacking Gaza; yet seem to defend what Hamas is doing to provoke the attacks from Israel and do not condemn where the attacks are targeted.?

Or you could ask what has Israel done to provoke the attacks by Hamas. Or does Hamas not enjoy the same right of self defense?

 

[cabri]

First, Israel engages in pre-trial demolitions: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/01/us-palestinians-israel-demolitions-idUSKBN0F64WY20140701

Justify that one, and please explain why pre-trial demolitions of Israeli homes have not happened despite numerous people confessing to the crime.

Second, even with judicial approval it is collective punishment that is inflicted upon Palestinians in violation of the Geneva Conventions. The fact that Israeli courts have endorsed these crimes doesn't actually make it better; if anything it makes it worse.

From the article linked

Israel has revived a long-lapsed policy of destroying suspected militants' homes

The policy is not to go in and level a "innocent's" home, it is to go after those that are attacking Israel. A home acts as a command post/HQ in this case and becomes a target. these homes are being destroyed up close and personal. a direct target, not indiscriminate shelling.

At present, Gaza is the only area where air-ground or ground-ground ordnance is being used. Those areas being targeted are where attacks have occurred against Israel, either the rockets are being launched from, C3 locations, munitions locations and/or militants are operating/staging from.

Note that the southern sections of Gaza are not being attacked.

So where is the collective punishment? More like selective punishment.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Or you could ask what has Israel done to provoke the attacks by Hamas. Or does Hamas not enjoy the same right of self defense?

The Palestinians are never going to win this game and it is a crime to their own people to continue this pointless and petty rocket bullshit.

 

[cabri]

Or you could ask what has Israel done to provoke the attacks by Hamas. Or does Hamas not enjoy the same right of self defense?

tit for tat will work; How far back in time do you wish to go then.
Which truce do you wish to start from.

 

[Abwx]

Some feel that "primitives of the worst kind" are those who intentionally target and kill civilians...especially mentally depraved, self-righteous cowards who recruit women and children to perform these heinous acts instead of doing it themselves.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hild-sending-suicide-bomber-mother-death.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPU4UN03t7E

Oh, heinous peoples of course, they saw their families torned apart by israelis nazis and they should keep mum and gratefull, that s it , isnt it?


Their logic is that they will be killed anyawy one day or the other by israelis nazis, so why at least not taking the momentum, if they are to be killed by thoses zionazis, why not let them choose the way they will be killed.?.

Because for you history start when such an event occurs, of course for your limited insight you wont try to check what is the cause, it require too much effort, best is to rely to the US zionists infested press, perhaps you re reading the NY Times, or are well enough informed by fauxnews and their likes.??.

 

[cabri]

But honestly, I'm starting to believe that Israeli leaders have no real desire for peace and this violence and conflict is in their best interest. That they can best control the region when the Palestinians are poor and incapable of development and the ability to resist. So they "mow the lawn" as they call it every couple of years to keep them in that place and to keep the status quo.

One has to mow the lawn to keep the weeds out.

If the grass strengthens, it forces the weeds out.

Look at the example between Gaza and the West Bank.

 

[fskimospy]

From the article linked


The policy is not to go in and level a "innocent's" home, it is to go after those that are attacking Israel. A home acts as a command post/HQ in this case and becomes a target. these homes are being destroyed up close and personal. a direct target, not indiscriminate shelling.

Interesting that people are trying to excuse the extrajudicial demolition of houses based on them being a suspect.

At present, Gaza is the only area where air-ground or ground-ground ordnance is being used. Those areas being targeted are where attacks have occurred against Israel, either the rockets are being launched from, C3 locations, munitions locations and/or militants are operating/staging from.

Note that the southern sections of Gaza are not being attacked.

So where is the collective punishment? More like selective punishment.

Uhmm, you just described collective punishment exactly. If you're punishing an area instead of a person you're engaging in collective punishment.

This is a war crime, btw. How does this affect your views of it?

 

[emperus]

The Palestinians are never going to win this game and it is a crime to their own people to continue this pointless and petty rocket bullshit.

That is another issue. The issue is who is starting the provocation. And you can't be taking people's land, indiscriminately destroying people's homes and killing it's people (including children) and act like you are the innocence.

Israel is behaving like a Bully. They have no moral justification in what they are doing. Their policy is might is right. We have might so just accept the inequality of the situation. No American would stand for that.

 

[emperus]

From the article linked


The policy is not to go in and level a "innocent's" home, it is to go after those that are attacking Israel. A home acts as a command post/HQ in this case and becomes a target. these homes are being destroyed up close and personal. a direct target, not indiscriminate shelling.

At present, Gaza is the only area where air-ground or ground-ground ordnance is being used. Those areas being targeted are where attacks have occurred against Israel, either the rockets are being launched from, C3 locations, munitions locations and/or militants are operating/staging from.

Note that the southern sections of Gaza are not being attacked.

So where is the collective punishment? More like selective punishment.

So after you kill the suspect. Why go back and destroy the home?

 

[surfsatwerk]

That is another issue. The issue is who is starting the provocation. And you can't be taking people's land, indiscriminately destroying people's homes and killing it's people (including children) and act like you are the innocence.

Israel is behaving like a Bully. They have no moral justification in what they are doing. Their policy is might are right. We have might so just accept the inequality of the situation. No American would stand for that.

So what? The situation as it exists now is a losing game for the Palestinians. They are stupid for choosing to continue it.

 

[Whiskey16]

I am asking if the pot is calling the kettle black?

You condemn Israel for attacking Gaza; yet seem to defend what Hamas is doing to provoke the attacks from Israel and do not condemn where the attacks are targeted.?

You lying shill.

I have corrected you and directly quoted my recorded condemnation of terrorism by Hamas.

Intentionally you are misrepreneting people's written statements - reversing them, in fact - and thereby thread crapping.

 

[QuantumPion]

That is another issue. The issue is who is starting the provocation. And you can't be taking people's land, indiscriminately destroying people's homes and killing it's people (including children) and act like you are the innocence.

Exactly. The Arab League and the palestinians invaded, took Israel's land, indiscriminately destroyed people's homes and killed it's people, including children, and are now acting like they are the innocent victims. I'm so relieved you've turned around and finally come to the realization that Hamas are the aggressors and the ones in the wrong, and Israel is just doing what it can to survive.

 

[QuantumPion]

So after you kill the suspect. Why go back and destroy the home?

Because Hamas and other arab organizations pay families rewards for making their children into combatants and suicide bombers. The home bulldozing is a punishment to dissuade that from continuing.

 

[emperus]

Exactly. The Arab League and the palestinians invaded, took Israel's land, indiscriminately destroyed people's homes and killed it's people, including children, and are now acting like they are the innocent victims. I'm so relieved you've turned around and finally come to the realization that Hamas are the aggressors and the ones in the wrong, and Israel is just doing what it can to survive.

It seems that most of Israel supporters are hooked on propaganda. I find it shameful for a people who were persecuted to become the persecutors. Seems like a misreading of history.

Btw, and continuing to build settlements in Palestinian land is what?

 

[emperus]

Because Hamas and other arab organizations pay families rewards for making their children into combatants and suicide bombers. The home bulldozing is a punishment to dissuade that from continuing.

So, collective punishment. It's amazing how short sighted that policy is. DOn't you wonder why other developed countries haven't adopted that for their criminals?

 

[Abwx]

So, collective punishment. It's amazing how short sighted that policy is. DOn't you wonder why other developed countries haven't adopted that for their criminals?

It doesnt matter what you re saying, you re "debating" with some kind of propaganda software that automaticaly generate random posts by using a few key words on your own posts....

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Sympathy is waning for Hamas in Egypt and other Arab nations.

http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/20799/

 

[emperus]

Sympathy is waning for Hamas in Egypt and other Arab nations.

http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/20799/

Ask yourself how much US and Israeil money made that possible.

 

[Abwx]

Sympathy is waning for Hamas in Egypt and other Arab nations.

http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/20799/

If it s egypt that doesnt matter since this is their dictator s point of view but surely not the one of the people, i suppose that others "arab states" are in fact the retarded gulf monarchies kleptocratic usurpatory kings?...

 

[Zaap]

But honestly, I'm starting to believe that Israeli leaders have no real desire for peace and this violence and conflict is in their best interest. That they can best control the region when the Palestinians are poor and incapable of development and the ability to resist. So they "mow the lawn" as they call it every couple of years to keep them in that place and to keep the status quo.

The Israeli leadership isn't completely without blame, I probably wouldn't agree with much that they do- the nature of governments in the first place is often nefarious and against the will of the people. However- in this conflict, they're MUCH more reasonable than the so-called "leadership" of the Palestinians, which are just a bunch of total thugs. They do NOTHING but use the people as pawns of war- their whole strategy is nothing but a PR campaign to fool the useful idiots of the world (of which unfortunately there are plenty).

They never put themselves near the line of fire if they can help it- they hide behind the common Palestinian citizens. It serves two clear purposes:

1. keeps Israeli forces from being able to surgically take out Hamas targets without harming the innocents that those scumbags locate their positions among.

2. If the Israelis do attack, innocents are bound to die (gee, if I hide my forces behind women and children, I guess that can happen, huh?) and Hamas and their useful idiots are there to use any (virtually inevitable) instance of it as propaganda to feed another flock of useful idiots for whom the very tactic itself is designed for. If any of them had a shred of a brain and a functioning soul, they would feel guilty about being used as a key element in the death of innocent people. The tactic simply wouldn't work if all the dimwits would stop allowing it to work. But, like I said- fighting a war via public opinion (Hamas tactic #1) is how evil regimes win.


As for the people of both sides: the Israeli people are CLEARLY more interested in peace than the Palestinians are, and are clearly the ones more willing to offer an olive branch, even help the other side. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that is again just a tool.

Too many Palestinians support the idiocy of groups like Hamas, and subscribe to all the "push the Jews into the sea" nonsense to claim anywhere near the same level of moral equivalence.

I actually have the most sympathy for the innocent among the Palestinians- those that don't subscribe to or support Hama's bullshit, that would make peace if Hamas would get the fuck out of the way, and that realize they are just stuck as pawns in the whole conflict. Unfortunately for them, there just don't seem to be enough of them to kick Hamas to the curb, knock of all the bullshit and stop their homes/people being used as cover for Hamas to make much of a difference.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Ask yourself how much US and Israeil money made that possible.

I love the way you "think"!