The Wii U is dead in its current form, admits Nintendo. But what now?

[cmdrdredd]

I thought the Gamecube sold better than the Xbox including software. no?

 

[Dumac]

I thought the Gamecube sold better than the Xbox including software. no?

Nintendo sold approximately 22 million GameCube units worldwide during its lifespan, placing it slightly behind the Xbox's 24 million, and well behind the PlayStation 2's 153 million.

I don't know about software, but it wouldn't surprise me since the Xbox was late and a newcomer.

 

[Aikouka]

I guess the question to ask is... is it a problem that Nintendo relies so heavily on their own IP to push their console? Also, is it a problem that there's really been no new IP since... Pikmin? Nintendo has been willing to stick their neck out by publishing games like Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2 (both by Platinum Games).

 

[cmdrdredd]

I don't know about software, but it wouldn't surprise me since the Xbox was late and a newcomer.

xbox released Nov 15 2001 ahead of the Nov 18 2001 Gamecube but I don't remember there being a ton of interest for the xbox outside of Halo and the hype around "better graphics than other consoles" so I always assumed the Gamecube sold more games.

I guess the question to ask is... is it a problem that Nintendo relies so heavily on their own IP to push their console? Also, is it a problem that there's really been no new IP since... Pikmin? Nintendo has been willing to stick their neck out by publishing games like Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2 (both by Platinum Games).

Well, when the major games that aren't published or developed by Nintendo either don't come to the system or are vastly inferior products compared to what is available on the competitor's system, I think it is a problem. I mean, Nintendo doesn't exactly keep games pumping out every few months. Meanwhile other systems see games released all the time that never see the light of day on a Nintendo console. They really have fallen far from their dominance of the 80s and 90s for sure. It's more a psychological problem for consumers though as they see more stuff going on for the Xbox and Playstation brands. It sure made me sell the WiiU and get an XB1. So I don't think the mindshare of the average gamer is in their favor. Is it a financial problem? I think it can be if you consider they have lowered their sales projections drastically.

 

[zerocool84]

I guess the question to ask is... is it a problem that Nintendo relies so heavily on their own IP to push their console? Also, is it a problem that there's really been no new IP since... Pikmin? Nintendo has been willing to stick their neck out by publishing games like Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2 (both by Platinum Games).

It wasn't much of a problem on the Wii since they made money on every console sold so they didn't have to rely on software sales. Now that they lose money on every WiiU, they absolutely need the software sales.

 

[desura]

What is surprising to me about the Wii U is that...Nintendo didn't have a constellation of games ready for it.

They should have had them ready at launch. It's been like a year since release, right? Still no Zelda, Metroid, Kart. Most platformers look 2d.

So if they can't manage to pump out their games on their own console, how could they be expected to develop for the PS4/Xbox1?

 

[CZroe]

I guess the question to ask is... is it a problem that Nintendo relies so heavily on their own IP to push their console? Also, is it a problem that there's really been no new IP since... Pikmin? Nintendo has been willing to stick their neck out by publishing games like Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2 (both by Platinum Games).

Well, I would'nt say they had "no" new IP since then but Chibi-Robo, Nintendogs, Battalion Wars, Brain Age, Sports, Play, Fit, Party, etc aren't exactly pushing things for us non-casual players. I think Elite Beat Agents should have been as big as Pokemon but, alas, it did not sell well and they suffered for taking that risk. New to us stuff like Fire Emblem, Custom Robo, [Platform] Wars, and Starfi, though all awesome, just didn't catch on like Zelda, Mario, Metroid, etc.

They took a lot more 1-times risks with stuff like Geist, Odama, etc back in the GC days.

 

[CZroe]

What is surprising to me about the Wii U is that...Nintendo didn't have a constellation of games ready for it.

They should have had them ready at launch. It's been like a year since release, right? Still no Zelda, Metroid, Kart. Most platformers look 2d.

So if they can't manage to pump out their games on their own console, how could they be expected to develop for the PS4/Xbox1?

And how would you have them do that without farming them out to other devs and forking out inferior prpducts? They would need as many simultaneous teams as the games you want them to have ready unless they finish games and leave them to grow old (all the while making no money) just for some future console launch. Their A-list teams can't do everything.

 

[desura]

They had lots of time though, between the launch of the wii and the wii u. not to mention the falloff of titles towards the end of the wii.

When one team is finished with a title, what do you do? You send them to develop the sequel.

No real excuses...and since they have less complicated systems as well, they should be able to churn out more releases quicker.

 

[Dumac]

What is surprising to me about the Wii U is that...Nintendo didn't have a constellation of games ready for it.

They should have had them ready at launch. It's been like a year since release, right? Still no Zelda, Metroid, Kart. Most platformers look 2d.

So if they can't manage to pump out their games on their own console, how could they be expected to develop for the PS4/Xbox1?

Super Mario Bros U
Pikmin 3
Super Mario 3D World
Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze

They haven't exactly been sitting around doing nothing. Those may not be games you care for, but saying Nintendo hasn't been coming out with games for the Wii U just isn't true. That is a decent number of first party games for any console. It isn't like consoles in the past launched with Mario, Zelda, Metroid, and Kart all in the first year, and the same goes for Sony/Microsoft.

 

[Dumac]

They had lots of time though, between the launch of the wii and the wii u

They were making Wii games...

When one team is finished with a title, what do you do? You send them to develop the sequel.

And that is what they did...

Super Mario Sunshine released in 2002. Super Mario Galaxy in 2007. Super Mario Galaxy 2 released in 2010. Super Mario 3D World in 2013. 3D world had a short dev time, although it was probably started in part after Super Mario Galaxy 1 and the fully ramped after Galaxy 2. They may have even split the team and had half work on 3D World after SMG1 while the other worked on SMG2, and then are now having the half that worked on SMG2 work on an unannounced 3D Mario game.

Zelda: Windwaker released in 2002. Zelda: Twilight Princess released in 2006. Zelda: Skyward Sword release in 2011. That would put the next Zelda probably in 2015.

No real excuses...and since they have less complicated systems as well, they should be able to churn out more releases quicker.

Uh...what? The Wii U is HD, so you still need good assets. Not to mention Nintendo strives for 60fps, which requires a lot of tuning to be able to lock in the framerate. The actual coding would require just as much effort.

 

[artemicion]

They had lots of time though, between the launch of the wii and the wii u. not to mention the falloff of titles towards the end of the wii.

When one team is finished with a title, what do you do? You send them to develop the sequel.

No real excuses...and since they have less complicated systems as well, they should be able to churn out more releases quicker.

I kind of get the sense that, for better or worse, Nintendo is very closed minded and isolationist in their approach, which translates to smaller dev teams a small number of producers that they trust to spearhead their AAA franchises. I also get the sense that they are like 90's-00's era Blizzard in that they are perfectionists that don't rush projects to meet deadlines.

Which is cool in that most of their releases are high quality and well polished, but also sucks because their dev cycle is painfully slow.

 

[desura]

For the Call of Duty franchise, Activision had two teams working on it. No reason nintendo couldn't do the same for its major franchises, especially since the lack of hardware sales is probably because of no compelling games. So far it looks like most of the releases have bee 2.5d platformers.

Have you seen the PS4 games? they have these crazy particle effects that must require a shitton of work, have like octacore CPU's, etc. The PS3's system was stupidly complicated as well. Nintendo has always had the most simple systems compared to the other two. That should translate into faster releases.

So maybe they need to invest more in software. Add a team or two.

 

[CZroe]

For the Call of Duty franchise, Activision had two teams working on it. No reason nintendo couldn't do the same for its major franchises, especially since the lack of hardware sales is probably because of no compelling games. So far it looks like most of the releases have bee 2.5d platformers.

Have you seen the PS4 games? they have these crazy particle effects that must require a shitton of work, have like octacore CPU's, etc. The PS3's system was stupidly complicated as well. Nintendo has always had the most simple systems compared to the other two. That should translate into faster releases.

So maybe they need to invest more in software. Add a team or two.

And that's exactly where everything went wrong. One team innovated and made their product with passion while the other was just given a job to do with someone else's baby. That's why we had crap like Big Red One, CoD3, and a confusing fall-back with World at War. Obviously, those were the terms of the publishing agreement, but Infinity Ward employees left in a massive exodus to innovate elsewhere after proving themselves there (and at EA before that).

 

[zerocool84]

The problem isn't first party, it's third party. Nintendo should be courting companies to make sure games like Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed come to their systems, and if they do, not make bastard versions of them either that are missing stuff like multiplayer. Like those games or not, they're huge sellers and not having them or them missing multiplayer or dlc and other stuff only hurts them. Nintendo needs the huge/most popular games on their system and needs them 100%

 

[Lil Frier]

And that's exactly where everything went wrong. One team innovated and made their product with passion while the other was just given a job to do with someone else's baby. That's why we had crap like Big Red One, CoD3, and a confusing fall-back with World at War. Obviously, those were the terms of the publishing agreement, but Infinity Ward employees left in a massive exodus to innovate elsewhere after proving themselves there (and at EA before that).

In fairness, Treyarch actually rose to the challenge. World at War at least brought Nazi Zombies, which Infinity Ward's shell JUST took (and apparently did decently-well with). Black Ops and its sequel turned out really well, while I still say that MW2 was a bad game, in hindsight.

 

[Lil Frier]

The problem isn't first party, it's third party. Nintendo should be courting companies to make sure games like Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed come to their systems, and if they do, not make bastard versions of them either that are missing stuff like multiplayer. Like those games or not, they're huge sellers and not having them or them missing multiplayer or dlc and other stuff only hurts them. Nintendo needs the huge/most popular games on their system and needs them 100%

That still comes back to a first-party problem. The reason the third-party titles don't come is pretty-much due to Nintendo's failure at providing consoles with a decent CPU and any kind of gaming network. Even if the third-party stuff WAS on the Wii U, it wouldn't fix the problem that the missing network ruins the experience for many of those games.

 

[desura]

And that's exactly where everything went wrong. One team innovated and made their product with passion while the other was just given a job to do with someone else's baby. That's why we had crap like Big Red One, CoD3, and a confusing fall-back with World at War. Obviously, those were the terms of the publishing agreement, but Infinity Ward employees left in a massive exodus to innovate elsewhere after proving themselves there (and at EA before that).

having played both, I cite this as an example because IMO it works. I think that Treyarch did a decent job especially with Black Ops 1. World at War was also decent.

Were they as good as MW and MW2? (MW3 IMO was mediocre). No. But it kept the games on market radar. It basically makes sense.

Ubisoft I believe does something similar with all of its studios located here and there.

 

[Red Hawk]

xbox released Nov 15 2001 ahead of the Nov 18 2001 Gamecube but I don't remember there being a ton of interest for the xbox outside of Halo and the hype around "better graphics than other consoles" so I always assumed the Gamecube sold more games.

Well, when the major games that aren't published or developed by Nintendo either don't come to the system or are vastly inferior products compared to what is available on the competitor's system, I think it is a problem. I mean, Nintendo doesn't exactly keep games pumping out every few months. Meanwhile other systems see games released all the time that never see the light of day on a Nintendo console. They really have fallen far from their dominance of the 80s and 90s for sure. It's more a psychological problem for consumers though as they see more stuff going on for the Xbox and Playstation brands. It sure made me sell the WiiU and get an XB1. So I don't think the mindshare of the average gamer is in their favor. Is it a financial problem? I think it can be if you consider they have lowered their sales projections drastically.

Sell the Wii U...to get an Xbox One...

Ok, explain to me how that works. You have a gaming PC. All those multiplatform titles the Wii U is going to miss out on, you can still play, and play them better than on Xbox One. Even Xbox's current flagship "exclusive" Titanfall is available on PC. By getting an Xbox One, you gain the opportunity to play...Ryse: Son of Rome? And the next few Halo games. Without the Wii U, you miss out on Super Mario 3D World, Pikmin 3, and Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze right now, and you miss out on the upcoming Mario Kart 8, Super Smash Bros Wii U, Zelda: Hyrule Warriors, and of course the next main Legend of Zelda, Mario, Metroid, etc.

At the very least, you should have gotten a PS4. That way you could play games like Infamous Second Son, the recently announced Last of Us port, and whatever game Naughty Dog Studios comes up with next.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Were they as good as MW and MW2? (MW3 IMO was mediocre). No. But it kept the games on market radar. It basically makes sense.

Well sure it makes sense. COD-type games are very popular now so it makes sense to milk it as much as possible. Even if you take a hit on product quality people will still buy it, and you can maximize profits before gaming moves onto the next big thing.

For Nintendo, they are already not making games for "the market." Even if they were cranking out a new Mario every year, that would be off the radar of those wanting COD games. They aren't going to start cranking out COD to appeal to the hardcore market, so why put out subpar Mario games for THEIR core base that sticks with Nintendo because of product quality and nostalgia?

In Nintendo's case the best move is to maintain product quality so that you can milk that product for years, starting with the Wii U and later on some sort of virtual console.

 

[desura]

Well sure it makes sense. COD-type games are very popular now so it makes sense to milk it as much as possible. Even if you take a hit on product quality people will still buy it, and you can maximize profits before gaming moves onto the next big thing.

For Nintendo, they are already not making games for "the market." Even if they were cranking out a new Mario every year, that would be off the radar of those wanting COD games. They aren't going to start cranking out COD to appeal to the hardcore market, so why put out subpar Mario games for THEIR core base that sticks with Nintendo because of product quality and nostalgia?

In Nintendo's case the best move is to maintain product quality so that you can milk that product for years, starting with the Wii U and later on some sort of virtual console.

Well, they better damn start meeting "the market" if they want to survive.

I enjoyed the Treyarch games, as I mentioned. Did it detract at all from the series that they existed? Not in the least.

IMO there is a pretty big hole in the Wii U's lineup. No 3d mario, no 3d zelda, no 3d metroid. And it is almost year 2 of release.

Me, I would play the mario churned out by the "B" team.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Me, I would play the mario churned out by the "B" team.

Sure, me too. But would it sell consoles?

Mario Sunshine shows us that subpar Mario won't sell consoles.

Nintendo tried to ride the Wii's momentum up the foodchain and failed. Once the Wii U is $150, even if by then it doesn't check one of the boxes for a Nintendo console, it could still be very successful.

The problem is that no Mario game, not even an AAA one, works when you want to play COD with your friends. I think Nintendo needs to realize this and TRY to be every gamer's #2 console.

 

[CZroe]

...

Me, I would play the mario churned out by the "B" team.

That's exactly what I consider New Super Mario Bros U, New Super Luigi U, and Super Mario 3D World to be: "B-team" products meant to tide us over until the flagship game is finished. You are asking for B-team products masquerading as additional entries in the flagship series. If you recall, Infinity Ward specifically blocked Treyarch from making new primary (numbered) entries in the series before the exodus. It's what they wanted.

 

[Red Hawk]

Well, they better damn start meeting "the market" if they want to survive.

I enjoyed the Treyarch games, as I mentioned. Did it detract at all from the series that they existed? Not in the least.

IMO there is a pretty big hole in the Wii U's lineup. No 3d mario, no 3d zelda, no 3d metroid. And it is almost year 2 of release.

Me, I would play the mario churned out by the "B" team.

Er, I'm pretty sure there is a 3D Mario on the Wii U? It even has "3D" in the title. New Zelda and Metroid will come with time.

 

[lamedude]

I don't know how hands on Miyamoto is these days, but I guess its enough that he can't be producing a half dozen games at once. Newer Super Mario Bros proves you can make a good Mario game without even knowing the guy, but this is Japan so I guess we can't do that.