The Wii U is dead in its current form, admits Nintendo. But what now?

[Red Hawk]

I don't know how hands on Miyamoto is these days, but I guess its enough that he can't be producing a half dozen games at once. Newer Super Mario Bros proves you can make a good Mario game without even knowing the guy, but this is Japan so I guess we can't do that.

Miyamoto's been in more of a producer role for several games simultaneously rather than the director brainstorming ideas for a while now. He recently announced that he's going to be dialing down his responsibilities at Nintendo with an eye on retirement. Dude's 60 years old.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Is the problem only Mario and Zelda games? I mean, the biggest games for the Wii were Sports, Fit, Music, etc.

I researched Wii Sports Club today and learned about how you have to basically buy almost all the sports separately. Wii Fit U's big features is you can use it without a TV. Wii Party U also looks unoriginal.

WTH Nintendo, these were your new pieces of IP and you completely wasted the Wii's momentum with subpar offerings and greed (like the buy the sports thing).

 

[exdeath]

Er, I'm pretty sure there is a 3D Mario on the Wii U? It even has "3D" in the title. New Zelda and Metroid will come with time.

Most of the 3D games on Wii U are just fixed angle camera on a track popup story book style that are essentially very linear 2D SMB1 type game play with 3D visual candy.

Contrast with SM64 and Sunshine, true 6DOF 3D platforming games.

Not saying they are bad, just saying that's what people mean about them not being 3D. They are just essentially 2D games with gorgeous 3D backdrops.

Even the pseudo 3D levels in SM 3DW are just the same straight line whether it's left to right, or near to far, there aren't any multi axis totally open levels. So 3D graphics but level design itself is a string, not a sheet of paper or cube.

Problem with SM3DW is that it's New SMB that already covers the 2D Mario with 3D graphics. Many anticipated 3DW to be the real 3D Mario 64 successor but it's mostly more of the same, just an isometric 2D game.

 

[Dumac]

Most of the 3D games on Wii U are just fixed angle camera on a track popup story book style that are essentially very linear 2D SMB1 type game play.

Contrast with SM64 a true 6DOF 3D platforming game.

Not saying they are bad, just saying that's what people mean about them not being 3D. They are just essentially 2D games with gorgeous 3D backdrops.

Wii U has a lot of 2.5D games if that is what you mean, however SM3DW isn't one of them. SM3DW has galaxy-style controls that haven't been simplified at all.

 

[exdeath]

Wii U has a lot of 2.5D games if that is what you mean, however SM3DW isn't one of them. SM3DW has galaxy-style controls that haven't been simplified at all.

Sure, but it plays like a New SMB more than it does Sunshine or 64. The levels are relatively flat and lack free 3 axis open world roaming or even just planar exploration in anything direction. I don't have a problem with it myself, but that's people's gripes with SM3DW not being 3D enough.

Eg. The levels L x W x H are more like 150 x 10 x 10 like a tunnel not 150 x 150 x 150. Or it will have sections of tunnel 50 x 10 x 10 + 10 x 50 x 10, etc

I like it, I just see why others say it's not a real 3D Mario game. The level layout isn't free roaming and open every direction, it's really just a bunch of hamster tubes.

 

[Aikouka]

Most of the 3D games on Wii U are just fixed angle camera on a track popup story book style that are essentially very linear 2D SMB1 type game play with 3D visual candy.

It's like trying to say Sonic 3D Blast is the same thing as Sonic Adventure.

 

[purbeast0]

Sure, but it plays like a New SMB more than it does Sunshine or 64. The levels are relatively flat and lack free 3 axis open world roaming or even just planar exploration in anything direction. I don't have a problem with it myself, but that's people's gripes with SM3DW not being 3D enough.

Eg. The levels L x W x H are more like 150 x 10 x 10 like a tunnel not 150 x 150 x 150. Or it will have sections of tunnel 50 x 10 x 10 + 10 x 50 x 10, etc

I like it, I just see why others say it's not a real 3D Mario game. The level layout isn't free roaming and open every direction, it's really just a bunch of hamster tubes.

if nintendo can ever give me the feeling i first got on the water level of mario 64, they will forever get me back on board with them. that level is simply mesmerizing, still to this day. the music on that level gives me chills when i hear it still.

 

[Red Hawk]

Most of the 3D games on Wii U are just fixed angle camera on a track popup story book style that are essentially very linear 2D SMB1 type game play with 3D visual candy.

Contrast with SM64 and Sunshine, true 6DOF 3D platforming games.

Not saying they are bad, just saying that's what people mean about them not being 3D. They are just essentially 2D games with gorgeous 3D backdrops.

Even the pseudo 3D levels in SM 3DW are just the same straight line whether it's left to right, or near to far, there aren't any multi axis totally open levels. So 3D graphics but level design itself is a string, not a sheet of paper or cube.

Problem with SM3DW is that it's New SMB that already covers the 2D Mario with 3D graphics. Many anticipated 3DW to be the real 3D Mario 64 successor but it's mostly more of the same, just an isometric 2D game.

And? Sure, the style is a bit different. That doesn't somehow make it not a 3D Mario game. I haven't played 3D World, but I have played its sister game Super Mario 3D Land on the 3DS, and it's certainly a different experience than the straightforward sidescrolling style of class Mario games and the current New Super Mario Bros series. It's influenced and informed by the classic sidescrolling style, and so was Super Mario 64, just in different ways, but it's unique in its own right.

Furthermore, what does that have to do with it being a "B-team" game? 3D World was developed by the Nintendo EAD Software Group Tokyo studio. It's the same studio that developed the Super Mario Galaxy series. If they aren't Nintendo's A-team, who is?

You may for whatever reason prefer the style of the Galaxy series over 3DWorld, but that doesn't somehow disqualify it from being the flagship 3D Mario game on the Wii U, nor does not quite satisfying you somehow mean it was developed by Nintendo's B-team.

 

[Dumac]

Sure, but it plays like a New SMB more than it does Sunshine or 64. The levels are relatively flat and lack free 3 axis open world roaming or even just planar exploration in anything direction. I don't have a problem with it myself, but that's people's gripes with SM3DW not being 3D enough.

Eg. The levels L x W x H are more like 150 x 10 x 10 like a tunnel not 150 x 150 x 150. Or it will have sections of tunnel 50 x 10 x 10 + 10 x 50 x 10, etc

I like it, I just see why others say it's not a real 3D Mario game. The level layout isn't free roaming and open every direction, it's really just a bunch of hamster tubes.

That is level design and has nothing to do with 3D or not. 3D != open world. And honestly, galaxy was extremely linear with the illusion of not being so via the small gravitational body system. If you unrolled the planets and cylinders, you would see it is just a flat plane that you travel down in a straight line dodging bullet bills of stomping on goombas.

As far as 3D movement, SM3DW is the same as galaxy. The character has the same degrees of freedom, the same movement set. The levels have you travel in x, y, and z axis. Some levels have big flat plains. Some have mountains to climb. Many jump in between.

Yes, it is different than Mario 64 in terms of level goals and design. That has nothing to do with 3D though. That is like saying Call of Duty is 2D and Crysis is 3D because CoD's level design has corridors and Crysis's is more freeform.

 

[artemicion]

Is the problem only Mario and Zelda games? I mean, the biggest games for the Wii were Sports, Fit, Music, etc.

I researched Wii Sports Club today and learned about how you have to basically buy almost all the sports separately. Wii Fit U's big features is you can use it without a TV. Wii Party U also looks unoriginal.

WTH Nintendo, these were your new pieces of IP and you completely wasted the Wii's momentum with subpar offerings and greed (like the buy the sports thing).

Wii Fit U is another pretty good example of Nintendo attempting to wade into territory that they clearly do not have sufficient expertise in. I've used it for about two months (just for a morning "lite" yoga stretch to supplement regular workouts) and there's all sorts of details they ignored or screwed up on and it's obvious that they didn't consult anyone with serious fitness credentials.

Like how it's impossible to string together an adequately intense workout because there's a minute or so of "dead" time in between routines while they give you your score, the balance board recalibrates, and they spam you with the same freakin' warning about not falling on your head on balance forms. Or how they limit reps per routine to some paltry number (like a maximum of 6 pushups+side balances). It's like the #1 concern put into the game was to avoid getting sued by injured players.

 

[HeXen]

if nintendo can ever give me the feeling i first got on the water level of mario 64, they will forever get me back on board with them. that level is simply mesmerizing, still to this day. the music on that level gives me chills when i hear it still.

One of my favs too. Actually a modern Mario 64 I think would be really cool, I liked how all the worlds were entered through paintings and the hidden rooms in the castle. I think more of that would be fun.

Now that I think about it, I think hidden areas and secrets were the most exciting thing ever about the Mario franchise. I'll never forget about the first time I heard about the warp zones or the minus worlds.

 

[Dumac]

One of my favs too. Actually a modern Mario 64 I think would be really cool, I liked how all the worlds were entered through paintings and the hidden rooms in the castle. I think more of that would be fun.

Now that I think about it, I think hidden areas and secrets were the most exciting thing ever about the Mario franchise. I'll never forget about the first time I heard about the warp zones or the minus worlds.

That is what I liked about SM3DW, finding all of the hidden stars, stamps, and secret exits, although they could have used more secret exits a la SMW on SNES.

Super Mario Galaxy didn't have enough secrets for me.

 

[shortylickens]

The tablet was a horrible idea. They should have released the wii uat $200 with a remote, nunchuck, and normal style controller. Given how these sell out whenever they go on sale, the Wii U would have sold gangbusters at that lower price point, and they could have made a slight profit if they didn't include that idiotic tablet.

There will be a Wii V or something, it will be stripped down and cost less. No game, no tablet, maybe cut back on storage or something.
It will sell poorly cuz all the people who wanted a Wii U already got it.

 

[shortylickens]

That is what I liked about SM3DW, finding all of the hidden stars, stamps, and secret exits, although they could have used more secret exits a la SMW on SNES.

Super Mario Galaxy didn't have enough secrets for me.

I hear SMG 2 is the same, but more and better.

 

[HeXen]

I never played Galaxy but I always thought it looked crap, running around on these small worlds. I didn't get it but then again I never watched much gameplay of it. Doesn't matter I suppose as unlikely I will ever buy a Wii of any sort. I just want some decent 3DS titles but I don't think it's gonna happen to much extent.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I never played Galaxy but I always thought it looked crap, running around on these small worlds. I didn't get it but then again I never watched much gameplay of it. Doesn't matter I suppose as unlikely I will ever buy a Wii of any sort. I just want some decent 3DS titles but I don't think it's gonna happen to much extent.

I have played both - and what bugged me about them was the feeling of "on rails" you got bouncing around the worlds. However, the boss fights on the smaller worlds were actually quite fun.

 

[CZroe]

Latest Wii U first world problem:

My Sony XBR LCD has metal-framed glass trim all the way around. I want to put a DIY sensor bar behind the glass. It would shine through and sit closer to the screen so there is less bezel separation vs. sticking it outside the metal frame. I want my DIY sensor bar to be designed right with three LEDs on either side all skewed slightly for a stronger and more omnidirectional light. If you look inside them it seems that Nintendo's is the only one designed this way. Obviously, it's not going to be pretty unless I stealth it behind an IR lens/filter.

Now, because the dark plastic-window-type filters are on almost any consumer electronic device that uses IR, I thought I would be able to find a plethora of similar options that are only transparent to IR. Well, I searched eBay and I didn't find squat. Where can you even get the dark plastic kind other than salvaging it from something else?! I was hoping to find multiple options, like vinyl, plastic, coated glass, etc.

I didn't even unpack the sensor bar since I intended to make my own but now I'm thinking that I should probably just mod an official sensor bar and be done with it.

 

[mazeroth]

When I first saw the trailer for SMG1 I was disappointed and confused as to this new type of platformer. However, I grabbed it after all the 10 reviews and must say SMG1 and SMG2 are in my top 10 games of all time. They are absolutely genius.

I've replayed them both recently in my theater (104" 1080p) using the Dolphin emulator and it makes them look like a current gen game.

I never played Galaxy but I always thought it looked crap, running around on these small worlds. I didn't get it but then again I never watched much gameplay of it. Doesn't matter I suppose as unlikely I will ever buy a Wii of any sort. I just want some decent 3DS titles but I don't think it's gonna happen to much extent.

 

[Arkaign]

Obviously, they should make a true sequel to Super Mario 64. Use the same basic framework, level sizes, etc, just add stuff to it. Would be an insanely huge hit for them. Same thing with a full scale Pokemon game on the U.

The Galaxy games, Sunshine, etc, are all pretty good, but it's a fair point that they're kind of limiting in contrast. Considering that all of the Mario games previous were fairly constrictive (DK, 1 screen, Mario Bros, 1 screen, SMB, 1 screen height, right scroll only, etc, adding a bit as they went along), it's not like SM3DL/W aren't anything but faithful to the Mario legacy, but SM64 was truly the GOTG for that era, and it's a sore spot not to have a real sequel almost 20 years later.

I can even say the dirty word : remaster. An HD remaster of SM64 would even sell well. But I'd rather see an original sequel in the same vein.

 

[exdeath]

Ugh AT sometimes I swear.

I LIKE SM3DW AND HAVE NO COMPLAINTS PERSONALLY.

But it is what it is, still "2Dish" level design and game play direction with 3D visuals and not a "true 3D" game like Super Mario 64. That's what OTHER people are griping about and it IS a valid point.

You ARE stuck in a hamster tube, it's not like 64 or even Sunshine where you could point the stick in a random direction, start running, and see what you discover. This is what most of the gaming population wants and expects when they see a title like "Super Mario 3D World". That title mislead many to believe we would have a true Mario 64 type experience, for the first time in a long while, and it wasn't.

Doesn't make it a bad game at all. Just many Mario 64 fans who have been craving a full open world 3D Mario game were mislead and let down by the title apparently. Having played both I can say that 3D World just feels like a "moar 3D" version of NSMB more than Mario 64.

64 you could just spend hours exploring a single level and still probably not find everything without a guide.

Contrast, SM3DW, much like NSMB, you just follow the path and you can't miss anything due to the obvious pipe or short "behind the level" or underground fork that gets you a "secret" item then pops you back out into the main level 5 feet further down the main path. It's just not the same and not what the Mario 64 audience was expecting or desired.

I like it, it's charming and looks and plays incredible. But its absolutely no Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie, Conker, etc. These are the standard that people expect in a 3D platformer, esp when you specifically name your game "3D World" to set it apart from the 2D NSMB sub series.

I was never much of a 64 person but having written this post and really thought about the games mentioned, I can see now why everyone thinks N64 was gods gift to 3D action platforming. Mario 64, Banjo, Conker, really set the bar and defined the platformers perfect transition to 3D to a level that really has at best only been half heartedly attempted since then.

 

[CZroe]

I never played Galaxy but I always thought it looked crap, running around on these small worlds. I didn't get it but then again I never watched much gameplay of it. Doesn't matter I suppose as unlikely I will ever buy a Wii of any sort. I just want some decent 3DS titles but I don't think it's gonna happen to much extent.

Uhh, the levels are huge collections of "small worlds" that only look disconnected in screenshots. The level sizes are huge.

Also, the graphics look closer to 360/PS3 than PS2. They really show how the 1.4GB discs were holding the GameCube back because a lot of it is just polishing tricks. Mario's hand has a shaded texture that simulates more advanced lighting, for example.

 

[sxr7171]

So I got one. $50 gift card at Target and the buy 2 get one free includes Wii U fit so that worked out for me.

So I get it home and really there is 2 hours of updating going on. Mind you this is on a 50mbps connection. After I did that more updates for:

Hulu
Amazon prime
Netflix
Put DK Country in and more update.

It was 3 hours total work before the system was set up.

The best part was the 2 hour mandatory update killed my controller battery so I only could play SMB3DW for about 10 minutes. Put it to charge and went to sleep.

Just a really bad experience from a console standpoint. They need to improve that aspect. Also the way the menu "reboots" every time like it did on the Wii is really the stuff of 2 generations ago.

The apps all have their own keyboard. There is no universal keyboard. The touchscreen is unresponsive for touch keyboard purposes. It feels like a resistive touch design from half a decade ago.




Anyway it's not all negative. The games are fun and have that nostalgia factor. That was the point of the purchase.

 

[CZroe]

So I got one. $50 gift card at Target and the buy 2 get one free includes Wii U fit so that worked out for me.

So I get it home and really there is 2 hours of updating going on. Mind you this is on a 50mbps connection. After I did that more updates for:

Hulu
Amazon prime
Netflix
Put DK Country in and more update.

It was 3 hours total work before the system was set up.

The best part was the 2 hour mandatory update killed my controller battery so I only could play SMB3DW for about 10 minutes. Put it to charge and went to sleep.

Just a really bad experience from a console standpoint. They need to improve that aspect. Also the way the menu "reboots" every time like it did on the Wii is really the stuff of 2 generations ago.

The apps all have their own keyboard. There is no universal keyboard. The touchscreen is unresponsive for touch keyboard purposes. It feels like a resistive touch design from half a decade ago.




Anyway it's not all negative. The games are fun and have that nostalgia factor. That was the point of the purchase.

I got the same Target deal.

It seems that you are expected to do a lot of your tablet use while plugged in. You can disconnect the plug from dock and plug it in (you'll find the port on top).

Of course, you can buy the extended battery. The internal battery bay is huge with a dinky little stock battery inside so they were trying to save cost and weight by not filling the entire bay.

I eventually figured out the way to turn the tablet screen off when you are playing on TV with a different controller or not actively using it. Home button, controller settings, tablet controller, screen off (IIRC).

The screen IS resistive just like the Nintendo DS. I think this is mostly so that it is sensitive to touch and stylus input without one of those special capacitive styluses (stylii?) or one of those overkill technologies like the Wacom sensor in a Galaxy Note (senses pressure and proximity too). It's also the same stylus as the 3DS, IIRC.

Did you do a Wii transfer to your Wii U during setup? It seems like it could add a lot more time to the setup process!

 

[sxr7171]

Most of the 3D games on Wii U are just fixed angle camera on a track popup story book style that are essentially very linear 2D SMB1 type game play with 3D visual candy.

Contrast with SM64 and Sunshine, true 6DOF 3D platforming games.

Not saying they are bad, just saying that's what people mean about them not being 3D. They are just essentially 2D games with gorgeous 3D backdrops.

Even the pseudo 3D levels in SM 3DW are just the same straight line whether it's left to right, or near to far, there aren't any multi axis totally open levels. So 3D graphics but level design itself is a string, not a sheet of paper or cube.

Problem with SM3DW is that it's New SMB that already covers the 2D Mario with 3D graphics. Many anticipated 3DW to be the real 3D Mario 64 successor but it's mostly more of the same, just an isometric 2D game.

Well said.

 

[sxr7171]

I got the same Target deal.

It seems that you are expected to do a lot of your tablet use while plugged in. You can disconnect the plug from dock and plug it in (you'll find the port on top).

Of course, you can buy the extended battery. The internal battery bay is huge with a dinky little stock battery inside so they were trying to save cost and weight by not filling the entire bay.

I eventually figured out the way to turn the tablet screen off when you are playing on TV with a different controller or not actively using it. Home button, controller settings, tablet controller, screen off (IIRC).

The screen IS resistive just like the Nintendo DS. I think this is mostly so that it is sensitive to touch and stylus input without one of those special capacitive styluses (stylii?) or one of those overkill technologies like the Wacom sensor in a Galaxy Note (senses pressure and proximity too). It's also the same stylus as the 3DS, IIRC.

Did you do a Wii transfer to your Wii U during setup? It seems like it could add a lot more time to the setup process!

I didn't try connecting the cable directly but it's good that it works.

The gamepad is surprisingly light and I like that about it's design. However I'm going primarily use either a Wimote or get a pro controller.

I see why they had to go resistive now. Thankfully text entry has been a relatively rare task.

I didn't transfer my Wii over. I hope I can still do so if I want.