The War On EV's

[sportage]

I just had to gripe and post something, and it's may have been discussed here before, but I definitely sense a war going on against EV owners. More so in republican controlled states but not exclusively. I'm talking about the cost to register an EV in a state, and the cost of yearly registration renew. In my state which already has some of the highest registration fees be it EV or gas powered, my state adds another $130 onto the already high yearly registration fee. They say because an EV does not pay gas-tax and gas-tax goes to maintain roads. Ok, I agree with that, where an EV owner is not buying gas thus not paying gas-tax thus not paying towards road maintenance. But where do they come up with this fantasy figure slapped onto the registration fee for owning an EV? The owner of a gas power car pays that road tax when they pump a gallon of gas, and I think the added tax is 27 cents in my state. The more a gas owner drives the more gas they need to pump and the more road-tax paid which sounds pretty fair. If you seldom drive then you are not using the roads and need less gas and pay less road-tax. This seems a fair proportional system for gas tax paid vs actual road usage. However for the EV owner, they just slap on a flat fee, a typically high fee, regardless of driving habits.

Why punish the EV owner? Why assume the EV owner is driving X amount of miles and then taxing for driving X amount of miles? A state "could" go by actual milage driven by the EV in a month or a year. Registration fees could include the actual OD reading of millage driven of the EV and then charge the road-tax on actual milage driven. States could devise a system, a fair system and not just assume EV owners drive more than gas power owners drive, which is pretty much the system now.
Also, I see no state allowance nor state consideration given to the EV owner for polluting less and contributing more to cleaner air. Nor for reducing the state costs to address air quality. EV's can and do save a state money. States, these anti-EV states act like the EV is polluting just as much as a gas power car. Frankly, where an EV is saving the environment and contributing to quality of air, it should be a trade-off. No gas-tax (road tax) for an EV in exchange for going pollution-free. Ev owners get a tax break, the state breathes cleaner air.
Hey.... and did I mention NO NOISE POLLUTION?

You would think every state would encourage more EV's on the road, not discourage. Some states (Texas), an oil state by the way, has become extremely anti-EV. Texas now charges a one-time $400 fee just to register an EV in the state, then charges a yearly EV registration renew fee on top of that. But then again, Texas is a republican state and very much a pro oil state. I doubt the oil companies care much for a car that runs on electricity and never needs an oil change. Gee... I wonder if that could be part of it? Plus, the current presidential administration is democrat and very pro EV and very environment aware which means very anti fossil fuel, while TX is not. So there you have pretty much proof positive that we have a war against the EV taking place.
Consider, if a family in Texas were thinking about going electric and shopping for their first EV, that added registration cost might be the deciding factor. If they buy a gas powered car then they have no $400 EV fee, if they buy an EV then they add hundreds to the cost or ownership both up front and year by year.

I joke with my Q-sister who thinks EV's are weird, I say how are we ever going to enter into "The Jetson's era" with flying cars and super technology when states refuse even to accept the electric car? We just need to elect smarter people I guess. I mean seriously. Or politicians with vision and less beholden to the oil companies. Fat chance.... right?

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

It isn't really adding cost to ownership since conventional vehicle owners have cost added at the pump.

But since these buzzmobiles require special connections, either public or at home, maybe add a per kilowatt tax for road use?

I'm more concerned about the war on conventional vehicles where places are banning future sales or manufacturers are no longer making them. Prices are ridiculous whatever powers them. I buy older vehicles so I don't have to deal with all the nonsense and costs.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Though I don't care enough to verify it, I've read that buzzmobiles are heavier and can potentially do more damage to road than real vehicles.

 

[alien42]

It isn't really adding cost to ownership since conventional vehicle owners have cost added at the pump.

But since these buzzmobiles require special connections, either public or at home, maybe add a per kilowatt tax for road use?

I'm more concerned about the war on conventional vehicles where places are banning future sales or manufacturers are no longer making them. Prices are ridiculous whatever powers them. I buy older vehicles so I don't have to deal with all the nonsense and costs.

fyi, "buzzmobiles" don't require special connections. EVs plug in at my workplace using regular old AC sockets.

 

[BoomerD]

Some sort of "per mile tax" MIGHT work...if there's no way to game the system...and people being people, I'm sure one would be quickly found.

 

[Paratus]

There needs to be a tax or fee based on vehicle weight and miles driven per year. That's the fairest thing to do if the goal is to fund the road infrastructure and not just punish EVs.

 

[A///]

There needs to be a tax or fee based on vehicle weight and miles driven per year. That's the fairest thing to do if the goal is to fund the road infrastructure and not just punish EVs.

won't work. The dicks driving full size suvs that weigh several tons will be up there with ev owners bitching about the price because tada ev's weigh a good bit too.

 

[Ken g6]

Some sort of "per mile tax" MIGHT work...if there's no way to game the system...and people being people, I'm sure one would be quickly found.

The simple way is an odometer reading at an annual car inspection. Of course odometers can be rolled back, but that's very illegal, and probably not worth it for a small registration fee.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Some states set their annual registration fees based on weight.

Not all states have annual inspections.

 

[gorobei]

Some sort of "per mile tax" MIGHT work...if there's no way to game the system...and people being people, I'm sure one would be quickly found.

pay per mile tax would be the fairest. the main problem being that the state would then have to come up with a system to verify which would cost some amount of money that they dont want to add to the budget, so it is easier for red states to slap on a punitive unfair tax.

it could be easier than we think. insurance companies require you to report your mileage and smog test stations actually have to visually inspect and record mileage. the problem being that neither come up yearly. you could require the owner to report mileage on annual registration, but you need some 3rd party to be required to check and record the mileage in order to generate enough fear of being caught fudging the numbers. can you make ev's have to do some sort of equivalent of a smog check every 2 years? or do you make insurance companies require a video of the odometer with the dated insurance bill?

The simple way is an odometer reading at an annual car inspection. Of course odometers can be rolled back, but that's very illegal, and probably not worth it for a small registration fee.

sadly OBD2 tools capable of manipulating odometers are easily available, more expensive than a casual scofflaw would shell out for, but if you know a guy.... there is a bit of buzz in the automotive world about OBD3 actually looking at your ICE car output and flagging it for inspection as part of the CARB requirements.

 

[A///]

it could be easier than we think. insurance companies require you to report your mileage and smog test stations actually have to visually inspect and record mileage. the problem being that neither come up yearly. you could require the owner to report mileage on annual registration, but you need some 3rd party to be required to check and record the mileage in order to generate enough fear of being caught fudging the numbers. can you make ev's have to do some sort of equivalent of a smog check every 2 years? or do you make insurance companies require a video of the odometer with the dated insurance bill?

Just have the dealer call the owner in for a software upgrade and grab the details to submit to the state.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

There needs to be a tax or fee based on vehicle weight and miles driven per year. That's the fairest thing to do if the goal is to fund the road infrastructure and not just punish EVs.

Seems unfair if we're not applying it to long haul trucking too, they tear up the road far more than any EVs do.

 

[Commodus]

The irony is that Elon Musk is courting Republicans and has a giant Tesla factory in Texas, but that very party is trying to hurt his business because it's Not Oil. Either he's convinced the GOP will "see the light" or (more likely) he didn't stop to think that they don't actually have his best interests at heart.

 

[hal2kilo]

Seems unfair if we're not applying it to long haul trucking too, they tear up the road far more than any EVs do.

They pay a lot more taxes than a private passenger vehicle does.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

They pay a lot more taxes than a private passenger vehicle does.

Does it reflect the difference in damage done, or do we technically subsidize them?

 

[Paratus]

They pay a lot more taxes than a private passenger vehicle does.

In Texas the $200 a year Registration fee for an EV is equivalent to the registration fee for a commercial vehicle weighing between 18,000 & 24,000 lbs.

My “extra heavy “ Model 3 weighs ~ 4400lbs or about 2/3 of my Suburban which costs less than $60 to register.

 

[Pens1566]

In Texas the $200 a year Registration fee for an EV is equivalent to the registration fee for a commercial vehicle weighing between 18,000 & 24,000 lbs.

My “extra heavy “ Model 3 weighs ~ 4400lbs or about 2/3 of my Suburban which costs less than $60 to register.

Isn't that to make up for the loss in gas tax though? If so, you're probably coming out way ahead on the EV side.

 

[Paratus]

Isn't that to make up for the loss in gas tax though? If so, you're probably coming out way ahead on the EV side.

The gas tax in TX is $0.20 / gallon. So at a $140 difference that would take 700 gallons of fuel to be equal.

In my real world 18mpg Suburban I’d have to drive 12,600 miles to spend that amount.

In our real world Hyundai Elantra that gets ~ 28mpg that would be 19,600miles / yr

In the EV I’ve been averaging 11,500 miles year and an eMPG of 134.

So tax wise I’m paying more than I would driving a 50% heavier V8 truck.

Fuel wise at the $0.11/kWh I’ve been paying I’m pretty far ahead.

 

[Muse]

Miles x weight of vehicle seems a fairer metric than just miles. A 2-3 ton SUV messes up the road more than a little compact.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Miles x weight of vehicle seems a fairer metric than just miles. A 2-3 ton SUV messes up the road more than a little compact.

Road damage accumulates with something like weight to the fourth power. So the taxes on heavy vehicles should really follow suit, and be incredibly expensive as vehicle weight goes up.

A fuel tax does proxy that to a certain degree, but probably not enough to make up for it

Truck Weight and Its Effect on Highways

About 22 percent of all loaded tractor-trailers exceed State weight limits, and the percentage ranges as high as 81 percent for other types of trucks...

www.gao.gov

For example, while a truck axle carrying 18,000 pounds is only 9 times heavier than a 2,000-pound automobile axle, it does 5,000 times more damage.

 

[Perknose]

In Texas the $200 a year Registration fee for an EV is equivalent to the registration fee for a commercial vehicle weighing between 18,000 & 24,000 lbs.

My “extra heavy “ Model 3 weighs ~ 4400lbs or about 2/3 of my Suburban which costs less than $60 to register.

There's a Canyonero joke here somewhere.

 

[Denly]

Some states set their annual registration fees based on weight.

Not all states have annual inspections.

Should include driver's weight, anyone over 200lb tax double.

Hey, if you guys are against EV send it up north. We will take them all, wait list are years here.

 

[Pens1566]

The gas tax in TX is $0.20 / gallon. So at a $140 difference that would take 700 gallons of fuel to be equal.

In my real world 18mpg Suburban I’d have to drive 12,600 miles to spend that amount.

In our real world Hyundai Elantra that gets ~ 28mpg that would be 19,600miles / yr

In the EV I’ve been averaging 11,500 miles year and an eMPG of 134.

So tax wise I’m paying more than I would driving a 50% heavier V8 truck.

Fuel wise at the $0.11/kWh I’ve been paying I’m pretty far ahead.

How many miles a year are you putting on the Suburban though. That's what actually matters in relation to the total tax difference between the two.

 

[Zorba]

There needs to be a tax or fee based on vehicle weight and miles driven per year. That's the fairest thing to do if the goal is to fund the road infrastructure and not just punish EVs.

I've been saying this for years. Not just EVs, but all cars have gotten more efficient, which is great, but has taxes haven't gone up by an equal amount.

Especially trucks need to be paying by weight and mileage.

 

[Zorba]

Road damage accumulates with something like weight to the fourth power. So the taxes on heavy vehicles should really follow suit, and be incredibly expensive as vehicle weight goes up.

A fuel tax does proxy that to a certain degree, but probably not enough to make up for it

Truck Weight and Its Effect on Highways

About 22 percent of all loaded tractor-trailers exceed State weight limits, and the percentage ranges as high as 81 percent for other types of trucks...

www.gao.gov

It's not just damage though. SUVs take up more foot print and are slower to move through intersections and interchanges requiring more infrastructure for the same capacity. Do agree weight shouldn't be a linear multiplier, but not sure it should be to the fourth either.