The War On EV's

[Puffnstuff]

I subscribe to several EV channels and the one consistent thing I've noticed is the inconsistency in the charging experience between non Tesla providers and locations which is not a good thing. Getting fuel at a pump is well regulated so it doesn't matter where you go the experience is identical bar low fuel levels at the station.

 

[sportage]

Ok... Here's my deal. Because I do not drive much and family always insists on driving when transporting people and family via their own van or suv. SO I don't drive much thus I do not and did not need the 220v fast charger. I still use the included slow 110v charger. It takes from 1.5 to 2 days to charge to full but I never deplete the battery below 200 miles because I just don't drive that much or drive that far.

So with charging several times a week on the slow charger A/C 110v wall outlet I swear to god my electric bill has not increased by more than $2. You can do the math projecting a much higher electric bill, but my bill has not risen over $2 a month. I may drain the battery from a full charge @ 360 miles down to maybe a remaining of 200 - 250 miles having used the difference (160 plus or minus miles). So I am charging 100 miles or so onto the car a few times a week (in 7-days). And my monthly electric bill increased not more than $2.

I just go by estimated miles available after a charge and estimated miles actually used when returning home. I leave home with 360 or so miles estimated available to drive. I return home with 200 - 250 estimated miles remaining. This is an extreme case. Then, I always plug the charger in. By 12+ hours I get notification on my phone that my car is fully charged. That is the routine. Drive, charge, drive, charge, drive. All charging at home in the garage. I don't make it complicated nor do I do the math. Kilowatts, and all. Some could keep track, most probably would enjoy knowing the driving statists, but I just do the old routine. And the electric bill? Month after month? Never changes. Increase by $2 and I really don't know if that is necessarily the car or maybe watching TV more than usual? I just assume the car. And yes, I was shocked too. Everyone had me convinced my electric bill would be out of this world. Never happened. Don't believe it.

There are these people out there who warn not to go EV because your electric bill will jump $400 a month. BULL-SHIT.... Either they never owned an EV, or they are reading this crap off the internet, or they are just anti-EV. It WILL NOT cost you hundreds on your energy bill to charge an EV unless ???? And again, I have not used the fast 220v home charger so I don't know about 220v home charging and how that would affect the monthly bill. Like I say, my situation is different. Slow home charging works fine for me. The most I have driven in one day is 130 miles with this EV, then I may not beed to drive for one or two days. In the meantime, the car is always plugged in.

I should add, I have the replacement batteries from the battery recall. After I bought this chevy Bolt, chevy USA called me with a battery replacement offer and scheduled the service order. It took half a day for the replacement with no charge to me. I was having no issues with the original battery(s), however the new battery(s) I find will charge a lot faster and now I'm getting up to 360 available miles on a full charge. Quite an increase compared to before. So I do have the newer replacement battery(s) and that might make the difference.

Someday I will try to change using the public charging stations. Never tried that yet. I know Electrify America has stations near me that offer the super fast DC charging. I need to figure how that works in case I ever need to take an extended road trip. I wanted to road trip to Arizona however charging stations are rare in New Mexico as far as I could tell on the app. I would need to full charge before entering NM just to be safe.

 

[sportage]

Which EV did you get?

The chevy Bolt. 2020. Had 24.000 miles on it. Mint condition and one owner, owned in CA. Could not find an EV locally to save my life. Cost me $300 to have it shipped. Couldn't be happier. Never think about miles or gas anymore, I will drive far across town or drive 80 miles to visit my sister on the farm without giving it a second thought because it's free.

A bit on the small side, I like small cars. A hatchback, I like hatchbacks. But I really like the color schemes offered on the Bolt's. This Oasis Blue was my first choice. It just feels and looks like a car out of the future.

 

[IronWing]

One nice thing about the gas tax is that the state gets to pluck the goose with the minimal amount of squawking. Change the "hidden" tax every time you fill up to an annual "send us a check for the whole amount" tax and people will lose their shit. Roads are expensive. That said, weight x miles strikes me as a reasonable approach. The states would have to work out the collection of taxes on interstate traffic. I don't like the idea of vehicle tracking for tax purposes but, with long haul trucking, most rigs are now tracked anyway.

 

[Zorba]

One nice thing about the gas tax is that the state gets to pluck the goose with the minimal amount of squawking. Change the "hidden" tax every time you fill up to an annual "send us a check for the whole amount" tax and people will lose their shit. Roads are expensive. That said, weight x miles strikes me as a reasonable approach. The states would have to work out the collection of taxes on interstate traffic. I don't like the idea of vehicle tracking for tax purposes but, with long haul trucking, most rigs are now tracked anyway.

You could collect at the charger to be closer to a "today" practice. I assume you could build that into home chargers as well. It wouldn't be as transparent as gas tax currently is, but more so than a fat bill at the end of the year.

Might also be better to pay it forward, you estimate how many miles you will drive in the next year, pay your registration fee based on that, then either get a refund or pay a little more if you did more/less. People love getting a refund on their taxes.

 

[Paratus]

The chevy Bolt. 2020. Had 24.000 miles on it. Mint condition and one owner, owned in CA. Could not find an EV locally to save my life. Cost me $300 to have it shipped. Couldn't be happier. Never think about miles or gas anymore, I will drive far across town or drive 80 miles to visit my sister on the farm without giving it a second thought because it's free.

A bit on the small side, I like small cars. A hatchback, I like hatchbacks. But I really like the color schemes offered on the Bolt's. This Oasis Blue was my first choice. It just feels and looks like a car out of the future.

View attachment 81583

Did you mean 260 mile range? Because a Bolt doesn’t have a 360 mile range.

Otherwise I agree. With the more efficient cars a standard plug is fine for average daily driving.

 

[Captante]

With the minimal amount of driving I do these days (3500-5k per year and 90% of it 20 miles or less total) an EV would work fine even if I had to charge elsewhere.... my only "issue" at the moment is that I don't have access to a garage for convenient/safe charging.

EV's are no question the way of the future.... hopefully I can keep my ICE Honda going long enough for more "nice" and affordable options to come out. (like the GM/Chevy Bolt) Remains to be seen if it happens.

I'd say it's very likely I buy ONE more either ICE or ICE/hybrid vehicle but it won't be two.

 

[repoman0]

Ok... Here's my deal. Because I do not drive much and family always insists on driving when transporting people and family via their own van or suv. SO I don't drive much thus I do not and did not need the 220v fast charger. I still use the included slow 110v charger. It takes from 1.5 to 2 days to charge to full but I never deplete the battery below 200 miles because I just don't drive that much or drive that far.

So with charging several times a week on the slow charger A/C 110v wall outlet I swear to god my electric bill has not increased by more than $2. You can do the math projecting a much higher electric bill, but my bill has not risen over $2 a month. I may drain the battery from a full charge @ 360 miles down to maybe a remaining of 200 - 250 miles having used the difference (160 plus or minus miles). So I am charging 100 miles or so onto the car a few times a week (in 7-days). And my monthly electric bill increased not more than $2.

I just go by estimated miles available after a charge and estimated miles actually used when returning home. I leave home with 360 or so miles estimated available to drive. I return home with 200 - 250 estimated miles remaining. This is an extreme case. Then, I always plug the charger in. By 12+ hours I get notification on my phone that my car is fully charged. That is the routine. Drive, charge, drive, charge, drive. All charging at home in the garage. I don't make it complicated nor do I do the math. Kilowatts, and all. Some could keep track, most probably would enjoy knowing the driving statists, but I just do the old routine. And the electric bill? Month after month? Never changes. Increase by $2 and I really don't know if that is necessarily the car or maybe watching TV more than usual? I just assume the car. And yes, I was shocked too. Everyone had me convinced my electric bill would be out of this world. Never happened. Don't believe it.

There are these people out there who warn not to go EV because your electric bill will jump $400 a month. BULL-SHIT.... Either they never owned an EV, or they are reading this crap off the internet, or they are just anti-EV. It WILL NOT cost you hundreds on your energy bill to charge an EV unless ???? And again, I have not used the fast 220v home charger so I don't know about 220v home charging and how that would affect the monthly bill. Like I say, my situation is different. Slow home charging works fine for me. The most I have driven in one day is 130 miles with this EV, then I may not beed to drive for one or two days. In the meantime, the car is always plugged in.

I should add, I have the replacement batteries from the battery recall. After I bought this chevy Bolt, chevy USA called me with a battery replacement offer and scheduled the service order. It took half a day for the replacement with no charge to me. I was having no issues with the original battery(s), however the new battery(s) I find will charge a lot faster and now I'm getting up to 360 available miles on a full charge. Quite an increase compared to before. So I do have the newer replacement battery(s) and that might make the difference.

Someday I will try to change using the public charging stations. Never tried that yet. I know Electrify America has stations near me that offer the super fast DC charging. I need to figure how that works in case I ever need to take an extended road trip. I wanted to road trip to Arizona however charging stations are rare in New Mexico as far as I could tell on the app. I would need to full charge before entering NM just to be safe.

Then you are using less electricity elsewhere. This is simple math.

 

[sportage]

Did you mean 260 mile range? Because a Bolt doesn’t have a 360 mile range.

Otherwise I agree. With the more efficient cars a standard plug is fine for average daily driving.

True, the stats do say 260 range.
With the original batteries I was seeing that 260 estimated range after a charge. Actually, more so around 220 range because I never allowed the car to fully charge 100% going by Chevrolet recommendations as a temp "fix" for the battery fire issue & recall.
However, after the new replacement battery(s) were installed or swapped out, now I do get 320 - 360 mile range after a full charge and with charging to 100%.

Others have also mentioned better range after the new replacement battery(s). I don't know why? I don't get the range improvement either? But that is the projected estimated millage I am now seeing on the display after a full charge from 320 - 360. I don't understand why the projected estimates vary between 320 to 360 after a full charge, maybe something to do with room temp at the time, or battery temp, but certainly I am now getting far beyond the 260 in the brochure. Hey, I'm not complaining. Maybe because the new replacement battery is physically different from the original faulty battery made by LG thus the new provide better specs? The replacements were not in use when the brochure was designed.
I can live with 360 or 340 or 320, and I was happy with the original 260.

The APP

Then you are using less electricity elsewhere. This is simple math.

All I can tell you is that after six months of owning and charging, my monthly electric bill has increased by only $2. Not $400. Not even $10. It costs me $2 to charge and operate this EV. Like free gas. The only suggestion I can give is because I use the wall outlet 110v a/c to charge. It is slow but for me that does not matter.

 

[Paratus]

True, the stats do say 260 range.
With the original batteries I was seeing that 260 estimated range after a charge. Actually, more so around 220 range because I never allowed the car to fully charge 100% going by Chevrolet recommendations as a temp "fix" for the battery fire issue & recall.
However, after the new replacement battery(s) were installed or swapped out, now I do get 320 - 360 mile range after a full charge and with charging to 100%.

Others have also mentioned better range after the new replacement battery(s). I don't know why? I don't get the range improvement either? But that is the projected estimated millage I am now seeing on the display after a full charge from 320 - 360. I don't understand why the projected estimates vary between 320 to 360 after a full charge, maybe something to do with room temp at the time, or battery temp, but certainly I am now getting far beyond the 260 in the brochure. Hey, I'm not complaining. Maybe because the new replacement battery is physically different from the original faulty battery made by LG thus the new provide better specs? The replacements were not in use when the brochure was designed.
I can live with 360 or 340 or 320, and I was happy with the original 260.

The APP
View attachment 81629


All I can tell you is that after six months of owning and charging, my monthly electric bill has increased by only $2. Not $400. Not even $10. It costs me $2 to charge and operate this EV. Like free gas. The only suggestion I can give is because I use the wall outlet 110v a/c to charge. It is slow but for me that does not matter.

Depending on when you charge and your power company it could be that low. A lot do folks get free nights meaning some or all of their charging is essentially free.

I pay $0.117 / kWh. So I average about $40-$50 per month.

 

[Zorba]

With the minimal amount of driving I do these days (3500-5k per year and 90% of it 20 miles or less total) an EV would work fine even if I had to charge elsewhere.... my only "issue" at the moment is that I don't have access to a garage for convenient/safe charging.

EV's are no question the way of the future.... hopefully I can keep my ICE Honda going long enough for more "nice" and affordable options to come out. (like the GM/Chevy Bolt) Remains to be seen if it happens.

I'd say it's very likely I buy ONE more either ICE or ICE/hybrid vehicle but it won't be two.

You could probably get away with a 120V charging if you have access to that.

 

[Captante]

You could probably get away with a 120V charging if you have access to that.

I also rent and at least part of the time have to park on the (semi-busy) street so any home-charging would be a bit of a challenge frankly.

HOWEVER with the tiny mileage I put on annually it wouldn't be the end of the world hanging out @ a charging station for 20 minutes every couple weeks. (of course it's also a none-issue occasionally putting in gas!)

 

[Brovane]

There are these people out there who warn not to go EV because your electric bill will jump $400 a month. BULL-SHIT.... Either they never owned an EV, or they are reading this crap off the internet, or they are just anti-EV. It WILL NOT cost you hundreds on your energy bill to charge an EV unless ???? And again, I have not used the fast 220v home charger so I don't know about 220v home charging and how that would affect the monthly bill. Like I say, my situation is different. Slow home charging works fine for me. The most I have driven in one day is 130 miles with this EV, then I may not beed to drive for one or two days. In the meantime, the car is always plugged in.

I have 240V charging at my residence for my Nissan Leaf. Living in Southern CA I am on Time-of-use and my Super-off-peak during the weekdays is from 0000-0600. A 120V charger wouldn't allow me to maximize my use of the super-off-peak rates. For the month of May, my EV charger used 651 kwh which at 14.5 cents per khw which means my EV charging cost me $94.40 in energy costs. However this energy allowed me to cover about 2,000 miles. Compared to using Gasoline to cover this distance, I would have paid about $300-400 in gas.

 

[repoman0]

True, the stats do say 260 range.
With the original batteries I was seeing that 260 estimated range after a charge. Actually, more so around 220 range because I never allowed the car to fully charge 100% going by Chevrolet recommendations as a temp "fix" for the battery fire issue & recall.
However, after the new replacement battery(s) were installed or swapped out, now I do get 320 - 360 mile range after a full charge and with charging to 100%.

Others have also mentioned better range after the new replacement battery(s). I don't know why? I don't get the range improvement either? But that is the projected estimated millage I am now seeing on the display after a full charge from 320 - 360. I don't understand why the projected estimates vary between 320 to 360 after a full charge, maybe something to do with room temp at the time, or battery temp, but certainly I am now getting far beyond the 260 in the brochure. Hey, I'm not complaining. Maybe because the new replacement battery is physically different from the original faulty battery made by LG thus the new provide better specs? The replacements were not in use when the brochure was designed.
I can live with 360 or 340 or 320, and I was happy with the original 260.

The APP
View attachment 81629


All I can tell you is that after six months of owning and charging, my monthly electric bill has increased by only $2. Not $400. Not even $10. It costs me $2 to charge and operate this EV. Like free gas. The only suggestion I can give is because I use the wall outlet 110v a/c to charge. It is slow but for me that does not matter.

All I can tell you is that you are spending more than $2 to charge your car unless you get free power. There is no magic here, only math. You are using less electricity elsewhere. Your meter doesn’t care about whether you are using a 110V slow charger vs a 20kW fast charger.

 

[Captante]

All I can tell you is that you are spending more than $2 to charge your car unless you get free power. There is no magic here, only math. You are using less electricity elsewhere. Your meter doesn’t care about whether you are using a 110V slow charger vs a 20kW fast charger.

And/or rates went down. (it could happen!)

 

[akugami]

I'm of two minds about an EV tax.

Money for road maintenance has to come from somewhere. Usually its from a gas tax.

However, EV's do not use gas, but still use the roads. Revenue has to come from somewhere.

But we all know for places like Taxes, it's more about vindictiveness. They are actively trying to kill green energy production and EV's.

 

[A///]

why not taxes collected from gambing or cigarettes or pot? at the end of the day if a hybrid ice engine were to be developed one day that provided 1000 miles from a tank of gas while delivering mountains of performance are we gonna start taxing the owners of those vehicles more money despite it being a phev and being better for the earth although not a full ev?

the cost of road maintenance goes up the longer you go between maintenance sessions. Get it done before a problem begins to fester away and it'll cost less. some cities have apps where the inhabitants of the city can use their mobile to take a photo and inject the report with the gps cords and submit a report for cracked walkways, roadways or grafitto for the city to be notified and repair in a timely manner.

 

[Brainonska511]

Money for road maintenance has to come from somewhere. Usually its from a gas tax.

People always claim this, but generally speaking, the gas tax come no where close to covering road maintenance. Nowadays, it merely serves as a supplement from appropriated general funds that originate from other taxes, like the income tax.

Ideally, if we want road maintenance to be funded like a true "use" tax, it should be based on vehicle weight, size, and miles driven. For states with annual vehicle inspections, collecting mileage should be pretty easy.

 

[sportage]

All I can tell you is that you are spending more than $2 to charge your car unless you get free power. There is no magic here, only math.

So I guess I'm going to have to post my electric bills?
And who says charing an EV is expensive, expensive at all?
I cannot speak of the faster 220V chargers because I don't use em.

Charging my EV is nothing. My electric bill has basically remained the same. However... when I plug in a space heater or power drill I do see the room lights dim momentarily. A space heater sucks a lot of electrical power. But when I plug in my EV, I see none of that flickering or dimming of room lights or of garage lights. That too tells me that my EV is not sucking that much electrical energy when charging. Definitely not like a space heater or power tool would.

And as far as maximum projected milage after a full charge, and even though the Bolt manual and brochure states a max range of 260 miles, I have been seeing quite an increase since the new battery swap via the Chevrolet recall. With the old battery the top best projected after a full change was around 220 miles. Now I am seeing and getting much more milage.
<see image>



Naturally, only projections depending on how one drives. Terrain. Weather conditions. Temperature. Lead foot or tender foot.

 

[akugami]

People always claim this, but generally speaking, the gas tax come no where close to covering road maintenance. Nowadays, it merely serves as a supplement from appropriated general funds that originate from other taxes, like the income tax.

Ideally, if we want road maintenance to be funded like a true "use" tax, it should be based on vehicle weight, size, and miles driven. For states with annual vehicle inspections, collecting mileage should be pretty easy.

I'd actually agree more with a "use tax" based on vehicle weight, size, and miles driven. I think that's fair.

And can we get all these damn cross country trailer trucks off the road It's criminal how dilapidated some of our rail systems are these days. Rail is much more fuel efficient, and just as cost effective for long distance shipments. Trucks should only be for the last mile, short hauls, or for perishable goods. There would be less road congestion with less trucks on the roads too.

 

[sportage]

And here are some of my electric bill usage. It looks cheap because gas comes from a different company. Most peoples utility bills have electric & gas combined.

I added in October 2022 just to show a bill going back that far. I did not have the Bolt-EV until early Feb 2023. Did not start charging until early Feb 2023.
As you can see, bills have remained fairly consistent. No $400 increase. No big jump in usage. BTW, I started using my home air conditioner in May so May reflects an increase however not from the EV charging, more so from using the home air conditioner.
Enjoy.

 

[repoman0]

So you argued fervently against me telling you it’s not $2 and then post bills as evidence that … it’s not $2. Cool

You can map the energy cost per kWh on your bill almost 1:1 to energy storage in your car’s 65 kWh battery and calculate that it’s $6.50+ to charge your car from empty, and that $2 is under a third of its range or ~80 miles, close to what I said earlier. You are lucky to have very cheap power. It would cost me closer to $20 to charge that same car here if the usage wasn’t offset by my solar panels that month.

 

[Brovane]

So I guess I'm going to have to post my electric bills?
And who says charing an EV is expensive, expensive at all?
I cannot speak of the faster 220V chargers because I don't use em.

What is the average miles you drive your BEV for per month?

 

[Ajay]

Man, I am so jealous of the price of electricity for some of you guys. NH is ~33¢/kWh (just for supply, not delivery). I’m looking at a couple of alternative suppliers that may knock ~8 to 10¢ or so off that. Unfortunately, my Camry is being stubbornly reliable of late (which is a good thing, but no EV for me for approx. 3 years).

 

[mugs]

But we all know for places like Taxes, it's more about vindictiveness. They are actively trying to kill green energy production and EV's.

Truth. We should be actively trying to kill ICE vehicles (to the extent that's feasible) by making up the shortfall in gas taxes by increasing the tax rate. Yeah, they'll be subsidizing road maintenance for EV drivers, but future generations are still subsidizing fossil fuels by paying for the environmental damage they're doing.

That would disproportionately impact the poor though. On solution I've seen for disincentivizing fossil fuels without hurting the poor is a tax on carbon output that ultimately gets refunded - but divided evenly amongst the taxpayers. So someone whose carbon output is lower than average gets back more than they paid in, and someone whose carbon output is above average is a net tax payer.