The value of Portland debate (moved from OT)

[brycejones]

Anyway, back to Portland. Anyone know any good places to get a good Philly Cheese-steak?

I have no doubt you would like to deflect from the ignorant ass shit you posted here.

 

[MrSquished]

Portland, what an absolute DEGENERATED F***ING, SHI*HOLE tied for 1st with Seattle and most of Southern Kalifornistan. Anarchists, Bums, Crackheads, Druggies, System Sucking Welfare Jerkoffs, Rapists, Arsonists, and every other bottom feeder. The government doesn't care about the citizens that actually work, pay taxes for services, and want to be safe. Wall it off from Portland all the way to Eugene and let the animals destroy themselves.

You spout nothing but nonsense. You should read the thread here https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/why-rural-areas-need-the-cities.2594642/ about how you rural ignoramuses not only contribute nothing to intellectual political discourse and a positive evolution of this country, you are also net leeches on the budgets of your states. You can pretty much google any state with an income tax and it's the bluer metro areas that give more dollars than they get back in taxes, and the redder area rural leeches suck those dollars away, while you rail against 'socialism' and any type of wealth redistibution, meanwhile you suck at the teat of the government dollar.

To me that was just part of being an American and that was ok, but seeing how the Trumpie rednecks/Evangelicals have become such trash and dangerous to this country, it's just something we should fix. At this point it's not acceptable for these fascist propaganda spreading people like yourself to steal from the metropolitan cities and areas.

 

[Sunburn74]

You spout nothing but nonsense. You should read the thread here https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/why-rural-areas-need-the-cities.2594642/ about how you rural ignoramuses not only contribute nothing to intellectual political discourse and a positive evolution of this country, you are also net leeches on the budgets of your states. You can pretty much google any state with an income tax and it's the bluer metro areas that give more dollars than they get back in taxes, and the redder area rural leeches suck those dollars away, while you rail against 'socialism' and any type of wealth redistibution, meanwhile you suck at the teat of the government dollar.

To me that was just part of being an American and that was ok, but seeing how the Trumpie rednecks/Evangelicals have become such trash and dangerous to this country, it's just something we should fix. At this point it's not acceptable for these fascist propaganda spreading people like yourself to steal from the metropolitan cities and areas.

If there was a rule that said income taxes have to be spent locally, 95% of the country would move to cities instantly or overnight become what you see on Mad Max. Its a joke how little rural areas are actually contributing to the GDP of this country.

 

[FelixDeCat]

It's not cheese steak, but for sandwiches I'd suggest Lardo's on Hawthorne. The pho'rench dip is *chef's kiss*

Im hungry as I type this.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Yes, and we are still eagerly waiting for you to condemn the right-wing extremism, violence, and thuggery that took place in Portland.

lol at you quoting my post about opposing violence in the streets from the left and right and then saying I do not condom a particular side.

 

[Vic]

lol at you quoting my post about opposing violence in the streets from the left and right and then saying I do not condom a particular side.

That's because you haven't condemned a particular side. Instead, you've ranted on about antifa without saying a single word about the right-wing groups, such as Patriot Prayer and Proud Boys, that were just as much a part of the violence, rioting, and property destruction.

 

[ch33zw1z]

That's because you haven't condemned a particular side. Instead, you've ranted on about antifa without saying a single word about the right-wing groups, such as Patriot Prayer and Proud Boys, that were just as much a part of the violence, rioting, and property destruction.

Let's not forget about the LEO's that rioted and beat down the peaceful protestors. There was quite a bit of that as well.

 

[FelixDeCat]

That's because you haven't condemned a particular side. Instead, you've ranted on about antifa without saying a single word about the right-wing groups, such as Patriot Prayer and Proud Boys, that were just as much a part of the violence, rioting, and property destruction.

I oppose violence for the sake of violence. I support the right to protest but it should remain peaceful.

The way some of these protests get out of hand is one member of a side attacks another and then all hell breaks loose.... later both sides will claim self defense.

 

[Vic]

I oppose violence for the sake of violence. I support the right to protest but it should remain peaceful.

The way some of these protests get out of hand is one member of a side attacks another and then all hell breaks loose.... later both sides will claim self defense.

Lol... it's funny that you're pretending to bothsides even though you still haven't condemned any right-wing groups for their roles in these violent protests.

Anyway, the way the protests in Portland got out of hand was that right-wing groups would bus in violent thugs from rural areas to incite riots, holding so-called "free speech rallies" with the actual intent of getting in brawls with anyone whose speech they disagreed with, whereupon Andy Ngo would start filming after the riots had started so that they could blame it on antifa, when they were the ones who intentionally started the violence.
I know this isn't what Fox news and other batshit media told you, but it is the bullshit that the good people of Portland know all too well (because we had to watch it happen right in front of us for 4 years), and it is what Patriot Prayer leader Joey Gibson is going to prison for.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Well Vicky I tried to be rational with you, but obviously you only want to "win" some sort of argument. But there is nothing to win here....so you accomplished nothing.

I have now said three times I oppose political violence from those ANTIFA nutbags or anyone on the right.

But what about you?

Do you support the violence perpetrated by ANTIFA?

I'm guessing you support it. Am I correct?

 

[darkswordsman17]

Its a simple undisputed fact that white supremacists were there before antifa, and it likewise is a fact that the white supremacists have consistently been the instigators of violence.

 

[Vic]

Well Vicky I tried to be rational with you, but obviously you only want to "win" some sort of argument. But there is nothing to win here....so you accomplished nothing.

I have now said three times I oppose political violence from those ANTIFA nutbags or anyone on the right.

But what about you?

Do you support the violence perpetrated by ANTIFA?

I'm guessing you support it. You seem to support wanting Andy Ngo beaten again for opposing your favorite left wing anarchists who want to overthrow the government.

Am I correct?

Of course you're not correct. I have condemned antifa on these forums many times. In fact, "useful idiots" are the kindest words I have ever used for them.
You OTOH have still not condemned the right-wing extremist groups, such as Patriot Prayer and the Proud Boys, who were largely responsible for the violence. Which must be the reason why you are now resorting to personal attacks and telling lies about me.

 

[sactoking]

I've driven through Portland a couple of times but I don't think I've ever stopped in Portland. Other than that my only experience with Portland is watching a few episodes of Portlandia; that show sucked.

Based entirely on my experience with Portlandia I can confirm that Portland is a shithole.

 

[Moonbeam]

I have now said three times I oppose political violence from those ANTIFA nutbags or anyone on the right.

Pretty sure the right groups in question here have names. Care to denounce them by name?

 

[Moonbeam]

The place I won’t visit out of distaste for the posture suggested is Bend Or. Don’t much care for Molesto Ca. either.

 

[Vic]

Its a simple undisputed fact that white supremacists were there before antifa, and it likewise is a fact that the white supremacists have consistently been the instigators of violence.

Patriot Prayer brought guns and staged snipers on top of parking garages for their "peaceful protests." A member of Patriot Prayer viciously murdered 2 innocent people on the Max train (and a 3rd barely survived). They even got caught on video planning and organizing beforehand the "May Day riot" that led to serious injuries (which is what Joey Gibson is facing felony charges for, 2 other members already pled guilty). I personally witnessed a "free speech rally" downtown where right-wing thugs with weapons attacked so-called "antifa" members (who were really just regular peaceful protesters armed with nothing but anti-Trump signs). And a good friend of mine, a 4'11" woman of Asian heritage was attacked by MAGA hat-wearing Proud Boys while innocently walking downtown at the same time as their "Back by Blue" rally, shoved to the ground and told to go back to her shithole country (even though she was born in America).
Portland was literally terrorized by these violent right-wing thugs for 4 long years.

But... antifa!

 

[darkswordsman17]

Of course you're not correct. I have condemned antifa on these forums many times. In fact, "useful idiots" are the kindest words I have ever used for them.
You OTOH have still not condemned the right-wing extremist groups, such as Patriot Prayer and the Proud Boys, who were largely responsible for the violence. Which must be the reason why you are now resorting to personal attacks and telling lies about me.

You got played. They want you to condemn their version of antifa which is anyone that disagrees that cops are saints that should be worshipped and allowed to indiscriminately murder people and that all protests are evil and done by socialists/communists intent on destroying America. Antifa in the sense of what morons like the person you've been arguing with does not exist. Its a boogeyman. Just like the one British son of a bitch that used to post here and then literally asked for someone to punch Nazis then became enraged after I pointed out how he's calling for what he's demonized antifa for.

Patriot Prayer brought guns and staged snipers on top of parking garages for their "peaceful protests." A member of Patriot Prayer viciously murdered 2 innocent people on the Max train (and a 3rd barely survived). They even got caught on video planning and organizing beforehand the "May Day riot" that led to serious injuries (which is what Joey Gibson is facing felony charges for, 2 other members already pled guilty). I personally witnessed a "free speech rally" downtown where right-wing thugs with weapons attacked so-called "antifa" members (who were really just regular peaceful protesters armed with nothing but anti-Trump signs). And a good friend of mine, a 4'11" woman of Asian heritage was attacked by MAGA hat-wearing Proud Boys while innocently walking downtown at the same time as their "Back by Blue" rally, shoved to the ground and told to go back to her shithole country (even though she was born in America).
Portland was literally terrorized by these violent right-wing thugs for 4 long years.

But... antifa!

I'm not even talking about that stuff (although absolutely consistently the white supremacists have been doing horrible shit then blaming it all on anyone they can). Oregon has had a white supremacist problem going back much further than that. The visible antifa movement that's being pointed at by right wingers literally grew out of those white supremacists putting coded messaging/white nationalist symbols on their signs for soccer games so people started responding knowing that the white supremacists are enraged by antifascists because well obviously why. But people like Bannon and others were salivating at a new boogeyman to go after, and they've had decades of white nationalist agit prop to pull from to turn antifa into the worst evil since the Clintons.

Whenever someone bitches about antifa you need to ask them why they're pro-fascist because that's what antifa actually is, anti-fascist. But morons, especially Americans, don't get that, which is why its easy for right wingers to demonize them. But, much like how they rage against things (or don't in some instances) until the dogwhistles blow, we need to stop letting them get away with such bullshit. You cannot be anti-antifa without being pro-fascist.

That includes you as well. Whatever you seem to think antifa is, you need to understand you're being duped into framing things the way white supremacists want. Its the same way the right wingers in the Israeli government have convinced everyone that any criticism of any Jewish person amounts to anti-Semitism against all Jewish persons (and likewise, why they've deliebrately tied Palestinians to Hamas, just like they had done to the PLO before then, notice how they change the group depending on the needs but keep the messaging the same?), they're trying to get you to agree that anything against any part of them is against everyone (yourself included), despite that being obviously a completely moronic way to view it. And yes, some liberals do that same shit (which is why you're so ready to go "I condemn antifa violence"). But you need to understand the way they phrase things is deliberate (ok not deliberate by FeelingUpKids that you've been responding to, as he's simply a dumbass manipulated by others that know simple shit repeated ad nauseum works on idiots like him), and is deliberately attempting to skew things to how they want to frame them.

 

[Meghan54]

Oregon has had a white supremacist problem going back much further than that.

Hell, Oregon has had a white supremacy problem since it became a state.

The Exclusion Law in Section 35 of the Bill of Rights in the Oregon Constitution, 1857. It had been preceded by two other versions of Exclusion Laws, in 1844 and 1849.

These exclusion Laws were to remove blacks and mullatos from the state under penalty of corporal punishment before being removed and prevent others from moving to Oregon.

 

[woolfe9998]

Patriot Prayer brought guns and staged snipers on top of parking garages for their "peaceful protests." A member of Patriot Prayer viciously murdered 2 innocent people on the Max train (and a 3rd barely survived). They even got caught on video planning and organizing beforehand the "May Day riot" that led to serious injuries (which is what Joey Gibson is facing felony charges for, 2 other members already pled guilty). I personally witnessed a "free speech rally" downtown where right-wing thugs with weapons attacked so-called "antifa" members (who were really just regular peaceful protesters armed with nothing but anti-Trump signs). And a good friend of mine, a 4'11" woman of Asian heritage was attacked by MAGA hat-wearing Proud Boys while innocently walking downtown at the same time as their "Back by Blue" rally, shoved to the ground and told to go back to her shithole country (even though she was born in America).
Portland was literally terrorized by these violent right-wing thugs for 4 long years.

But... antifa!

Question: who or what is this "antifa" who you condemn?

 

[Vic]

Question: who or what is this "antifa" who you condemn?

In actual reality, antifa in Portland was a bunch of stupid kids with no political ties or influence. Meanwhile, Joey Gibson's defense attorney for his felony riot charges is the Multnomah county GOP chair.

 

[woolfe9998]

In actual reality, antifa in Portland was a bunch of stupid kids with no political ties or influence. Meanwhile, Joey Gibson's defense attorney for his felony riot charges is the Multnomah county GOP chair.

Right, there are various local groups which identify as anti-fascist, none of whom are especially connected with any others. But there really is no "antifa" and I would avoid any description implying that any such thing exists because that is how it is being mis-characterized on the right. Their version of antifa is definitionally unclear to say the least. It more or less refers to anyone on the left they claim did something bad but they are trying to package it as if there's a terrorist group called "antifa" lurking about the country doing nefarious things, which is pure fiction.

 

[Vic]

Hell, Oregon has had a white supremacy problem since it became a state.

The Exclusion Law in Section 35 of the Bill of Rights in the Oregon Constitution, 1857. It had been preceded by two other versions of Exclusion Laws, in 1844 and 1849.

These exclusion Laws were to remove blacks and mullatos from the state under penalty of corporal punishment before being removed and prevent others from moving to Oregon.

Not to apologize for anything, but getting a new free state into the Union in the years immediately preceding the Civil War was... complicated.
But unfortunately, yes, Oregon does have a dark racist past. But today, the majority of the white supremacy in the area seems to come from SW Washington state.

 

[Vic]

Right, there are various local groups which identify as anti-fascist, none of whom are especially connected with any others. But there really is no "antifa" and I would avoid any description implying that any such thing exists because that is how it is being mis-characterized on the right. Their version of antifa is definitionally unclear to say the least. It more or less refers to anyone on the left they claim did something bad but they are trying to package it as if there's a terrorist group called "antifa" lurking about the country doing nefarious things, which is pure fiction.

I thought it went without saying that the whole "Soros' antifa is gonna enslave us to anarchy" bullshit was just that. Obviously, it is not even remotely believable. Meanwhile, these right-wing extremist groups have websites where they sell merch.

 

[sandorski]

Property values of that smouldering ruin should be at Detroit levels. An excellent opportunity for some prime West Coast Real Estate.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Patriot Prayer brought guns and staged snipers on top of parking garages for their "peaceful protests." A member of Patriot Prayer viciously murdered 2 innocent people on the Max train (and a 3rd barely survived). They even got caught on video planning and organizing beforehand the "May Day riot" that led to serious injuries (which is what Joey Gibson is facing felony charges for, 2 other members already pled guilty). I personally witnessed a "free speech rally" downtown where right-wing thugs with weapons attacked so-called "antifa" members (who were really just regular peaceful protesters armed with nothing but anti-Trump signs). And a good friend of mine, a 4'11" woman of Asian heritage was attacked by MAGA hat-wearing Proud Boys while innocently walking downtown at the same time as their "Back by Blue" rally, shoved to the ground and told to go back to her shithole country (even though she was born in America).
Portland was literally terrorized by these violent right-wing thugs for 4 long years.

But... antifa!

We must not dismiss the menace of Antifa. And yes a member of Antifa did commit murder, Michael Forest Reinoehl, after first being charged by the Portland DA on other serious crimes including (which were dropped because the Portland DA supports Antifa). As a result of this decision by the DA, Antifa member Reinoehl went on to murder Aaron J. Danielson:

Portland shooting victim wasn't an agitator or radical, friend says | CNN

Friends of Portland shooting victim Aaron J. Danielson say he wasn't an agitator or radical, but a "freedom-loving American," amid the politically charged atmosphere in the city.

www.cnn.com

Suspect in Fatal Portland Shooting Is Killed by Officers During Arrest (Published 2020)

Law enforcement agents killed Michael Forest Reinoehl while trying to arrest him, four officials said. He was being investigated in the fatal shooting of a supporter of a far-right group.

www.nytimes.com

...And speaking of garage snipers...

Another left wing group of nutbags - BLM has killed or tried to kill police many times. A few years ago a BLM jackass went on a roof top with a sniper rifle and shot 5 cops dead in Dallas on a hot night in July. These cops were there to PROTECT protesters:

2016 shooting of Dallas police officers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yet, politicians and the media would have you believe that ANTIFA and BLM is just a bunch of harmless, lovable little fuzzballs who get out of hand sometimes destroying personal property, looting and robbing and assaulting and are only doing these things for various social causes.

Finally, I hate the fact that anyone on the right would feel compelled to employ the same tactics the left has including violence that has led to assaults or murder.

As members of civil society we must oppose these groups on the left or right who would seek to do wrong to others or their possessions in order to advance a political or social agenda.