"Nothing there about unlimited wealth. Nothing about the right to take as much as you can get away with. Nothing about an individual's right to lie and cheat and steal his way to riches. Nothing suggesting it's OK to turn the U.S. into a third world country so corporations can gain an extra half-point of margin.
I am sick to death of selfish SOBs worshipping at the alter of greed.."
Don't forget they say they are "Hurting" all the while too.
I am glad to see more and more like Bow posting in here.
Was so seriously outnumbered by the Rich Hurting Elitists for too long in here.
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Edit: oops, wrong button. Anyway, thank you for your kind comments, gentlemen. I'm sure the dissenting opinions will pop up any minute now.
*passes Bowfinger some Kleenex and hand lotion*
Funny this time?
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
- 392
- 126
Go away, twit. I suppose I should repeat Corn's suggestion that your mouth provides a fine substitute for hand lotion, but I don't think such crudeness is necessary or appropriate in this context.
Come to think of it, didn't you make a big production about how your posts were always such magnificent and informative treatises, while mine were empty one-liners? Didn't I suiggest I'd put the content of my average post against yours any day? I should go find that thread.
In the meantime, you lose.
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Go away, twit. I suppose I should repeat Corn's suggestion that your mouth provides a fine substitute for hand lotion, but I don't think such crudeness is necessary or appropriate in this context.
Come to think of it, didn't you make a big production about how your posts were always such magnificent and informative treatises, while mine were empty one-liners? Didn't I suiggest I'd put the content of my average post against yours any day? I should go find that thread.
In the meantime, you lose.
What's good for the goose....
annoying isn't it?
Corn was out of line, as was MonstaThrilla, as were you. Sometimes one line is all you need when you point out hipocrasy
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
- 392
- 126
Your dig was lame, your grudge childish. I'm sorry you have no sense of humor, but I believe I pointed that out before.Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Go away, twit. I suppose I should repeat Corn's suggestion that your mouth provides a fine substitute for hand lotion, but I don't think such crudeness is necessary or appropriate in this context.
Come to think of it, didn't you make a big production about how your posts were always such magnificent and informative treatises, while mine were empty one-liners? Didn't I suiggest I'd put the content of my average post against yours any day? I should go find that thread.
In the meantime, you lose.
What's good for the goose....
annoying isn't it?
Corn was out of line, as was MonstaThrilla, as were you. Sometimes one line is all you need when you point out hipocrasy
You lose.
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Your dig was lame, your grudge childish. I'm sorry you have no sense of humor, but I believe I pointed that out before.Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Go away, twit. I suppose I should repeat Corn's suggestion that your mouth provides a fine substitute for hand lotion, but I don't think such crudeness is necessary or appropriate in this context.
Come to think of it, didn't you make a big production about how your posts were always such magnificent and informative treatises, while mine were empty one-liners? Didn't I suiggest I'd put the content of my average post against yours any day? I should go find that thread.
In the meantime, you lose.
What's good for the goose....
annoying isn't it?
Corn was out of line, as was MonstaThrilla, as were you. Sometimes one line is all you need when you point out hipocrasy
You lose.
But your "LOL" was well thought out, pointed sarcasm. Full of double entendre. A striking chord of political insight. The ever funny "you are jerking each other off" post.
Lose? I didn't realize this was a competition. Unless it is to see who can be the bigger ass, in which case you are correct, I lost.
Unions can be bad, but they can also be good. There have been many strikes where I'm on the side of the workers, because the company really was trying to screw them over. Unions level the playing field between workers and corporations. Saying that if they don't like it, they can leave is BS.. it's like telling people that if they don't like bush they can get out of the country. Have you ever considered that maybe there isn't anywhere else for these people to go?
Um, isn't it illegal to fire employees for attempting to form a union? From what I've seen, companies just close the store, which I suppose is legal..
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
You see, what people don't understand is that I really don't hate unions(OK - maybe I do...but only because of the mindset they foster). I believe they once played a good role in moving the country forward before the gov't took control of worker safety and regulation. However, the union movement has become just as corrupt as the evil corporations they supposedly protect workers from. Now I've also stated that *some* unions are still <gasp> good, but those cases aren't widespread. I do however take issue with the union mindset and is why I take the hard stance I do here. I see the continued destruction of personal responsibility and an increased sense of entitlement and dependence on others(the collective).
Yes, people can leave if they don't like it - it happens all the time. I infact am planning to leave my current job if my employer doesn't ante up and make certain changes.
But see, the difference is that I am taking charge of my own job/career instead of allowing someone else do my negotiating for me. If my job performance sucks - I expect to be fired. If my job performance is above grade I expect it to be acknowledged for my contribution to the company. Yes I have considered the excuse of "there is nowhere else to go" and have concluded that it is BS. You see, I've been where these people are. I once thought there was nowhere else to go, but I finally took the advice of those who I worked with - and did infact "go" instead of making excuses - and I am better for it today. See, I was "stuck" - I thought it was my only option because... because... because...but in reality, it was only me who was limiting my options. Now, I fully understand why people feel they can't, but it still isn't true - it's all in the way they perceive it and rationalize it.
CkG
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
You see, what people don't understand is that I really don't hate unions(OK - maybe I do...but only because of the mindset they foster). I believe they once played a good role in moving the country forward before the gov't took control of worker safety and regulation. However, the union movement has become just as corrupt as the evil corporations they supposedly protect workers from. Now I've also stated that *some* unions are still <gasp> good, but those cases aren't widespread. I do however take issue with the union mindset and is why I take the hard stance I do here. I see the continued destruction of personal responsibility and an increased sense of entitlement and dependence on others(the collective).
Yes, people can leave if they don't like it - it happens all the time. I infact am planning to leave my current job if my employer doesn't ante up and make certain changes.
Yes I have considered the excuse of "there is nowhere else to go" and have concluded that it is BS. You see, I've been where these people are. I once thought there was nowhere else to go, but I finally took the advice of those who I worked with - and did infact "go" instead of making excuses - and I am better for it today. See, I was "stuck" - I thought it was my only option because... because... because...but in reality, it was only me who was limiting my options. Now, I fully understand why people feel they can't, but it still isn't true - it's all in the way they perceive it and rationalize it.
CkG
That's great Cad, unions quite clearly aren't for you. And that's a lovely annecdote and I'm sure you learned something about yourself and all, but what about the millions of workers who WANT to join unions and level the playing field with their employers? They should be allowed to do so, in fact there are federal laws designed to protect that right to unionize and collectively bargain. There should be penalties for companies like Wal-Mart who go to nearly any length to deter and outright stop union efforts. Individuals should be free to make that choice without aggressive (and perhaps illegal) efforts to stop unionization.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
Unions are for craft folks and folks who with out union representation would be at the mercy of the corporate power. Unions are easy to deal with. Much better than dealing with individuals on matters regarding pay, benefits and the job expectations. I prefer to deal with unions and eliminate the infighting and all that.. Engineers, Designers and folks of that talent generally aren't represented by unions.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
You have a forbidden word in your message post. Please click the back button in your browser and remove this word from your post. The words that are forbidden are highlighted for you.
I agree.
Dragon- There are places on earth that do things closer to your way than than Bo's.
They don?t have unions.
They don?t have any welfare system.
They don?t have social security.
They spend next to nothing on public infrastructure.
They have no public schools.
They have no workers protections.
They have no anti-trust laws.
And every one of them underdeveloped third world sh!t holes your "freedom" self would'nt be caught dead in. Please travel to Angola, Brazil, and a hundred other hell holes where they have rich elite as a fractional percentage living on the backs of the people who do the work. And you'll see why western coutries (or as you'd say soclialistic) are so-called civilized.
As far as you're accounting "methods" where you believe trade deficts ar'nt bad I think you better let your spouse handle the checkbook when you grow up because being in the red is a negative even to a ten year old with a lemonaid stand.
"Card Check. Federal labor law should be amended to declare that a union is established whenever a majority of workers have signed cards stated that they wish to unionize. This would avoid protracted and divisive campaigns in which employers use intimidation and coercion to block unionization. Republicans in Congress are proposing to ban even discretionary card-check procedures. As President, I would veto such mean-spirited anti-worker legislation.
Ban on captive audience / mandatory anti-union meetings. Under current law, employers may schedule meetings that employees MUST attend at which employers advocate against formation of a union. Federal law should ban such practices. "
With laws like that, even Walmart and McDonalds won't be able to keep out the unions. Whether that's good or bad in the long run.. I dunno.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Thats great DM, but when people like you or other's talk about FORCING unions and talking about how they "protect" workers from the big bad evil companies I will comment if I wish. Yes there are laws that allow people to give up their individual rights to bargain in favor of the collective. But IMO - that sort of attitude is part of the problem we have to with people not taking responsibility for themselves.
Walmart doesn't have to do anything except follow the law and they can be just as "aggressive" as they want...within the law.
This idea that Union somehow "level the playing field" is interesting though - Is the field in question called corruption and greed?Luny- yes, typically "professional" jobs aren't unionized - your point? Unions may make it "easier" because you have a set contract but there is also nothing stopping a corporation from setting base wages and yearly increases and such on their own instead of having to deal with people on an individual basis.
CkG
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Thats great DM, but when people like you or other's talk about FORCING unions and talking about how they "protect" workers from the big bad evil companies I will comment if I wish. Yes there are laws that allow people to give up their individual rights to bargain in favor of the collective. But IMO - that sort of attitude is part of the problem we have to with people not taking responsibility for themselves.
Walmart doesn't have to do anything except follow the law and they can be just as "aggressive" as they want...within the law.
What are you talking about Cad? I said we should "force to allow" - do you understand what that means? That means, we should enforce the existing federal laws that allow workers to unionize and stop letting Wal-Mart bully, intimidate, fire workers and break federal laws in the process of fighting unionization. If the workers believed what you believe, they wouldn't seek to join unions, would they? But they do. And do you know why they do? Because when you compare the salaries and benefits earned by union workers vs. non-union workers, the difference is startling.
Wal-Mart Employee: average Wal-Mart associate makes about $8.00 an hour with about 32 hours a week--a monthly gross of barely $1,000. No pension. Overtime: Wal-Mart faces 38 state and federal lawsuits filed by hourly workers in 30 states, accusing the company of systematically forcing them to work long hours off the clock. Health Insurance: High insurance premiums and deductibles keep more than two-thirds of Wal-Mart workers from participating in the company health plan.
Union Grocery Worker: union supermarket workers are paid an average of $10.35/hour based on Bureau of Labor Statistics data. With seniority or in specialized roles, supermarket workers can make up to $17/hr or more. Very likely to have a pension (2.5x as likely as non-union workers). Overtime: routine. Health Insurance: No cost health insurance is currently the norm - although the current strike is more or less over the supermarkets wanting to charge premiums in the range of $5-10/week.
Hmmmm, which job would you choose? Oh sure, Cad, unions do NOTHING for the worker except leach off their earnings and make them weak little girly men. You're so full of it, sometimes it amazes even me. Why don't you go take responsibility for yourself and let other people do as they wish?
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Thats great DM, but when people like you or other's talk about FORCING unions and talking about how they "protect" workers from the big bad evil companies I will comment if I wish. Yes there are laws that allow people to give up their individual rights to bargain in favor of the collective. But IMO - that sort of attitude is part of the problem we have to with people not taking responsibility for themselves.
Walmart doesn't have to do anything except follow the law and they can be just as "aggressive" as they want...within the law.
What are you talking about Cad? I said we should "force to allow" - do you understand what that means? That means, we should enforce the existing federal laws that allow workers to unionize and stop letting Wal-Mart bully, intimidate, fire workers and break federal laws in the process of fighting unionization. If the workers believed what you believe, they wouldn't seek to join unions, would they? But they do. And do you know why they do? Because when you compare the salaries and benefits earned by union workers vs. non-union workers, the difference is startling.
Wal-Mart Employee: average Wal-Mart associate makes about $8.00 an hour with about 32 hours a week--a monthly gross of barely $1,000. No pension. Overtime: Wal-Mart faces 38 state and federal lawsuits filed by hourly workers in 30 states, accusing the company of systematically forcing them to work long hours off the clock. Health Insurance: High insurance premiums and deductibles keep more than two-thirds of Wal-Mart workers from participating in the company health plan.
Union Grocery Worker: union supermarket workers are paid an average of $10.35/hour based on Bureau of Labor Statistics data. With seniority or in specialized roles, supermarket workers can make up to $17/hr or more. Very likely to have a pension (2.5x as likely as non-union workers). Overtime: routine. Health Insurance: No cost health insurance is currently the norm - although the current strike is more or less over the supermarkets wanting to charge premiums in the range of $5-10/week.
Hmmmm, which job would you choose? Oh sure, Cad, unions do NOTHING for the worker except leach off their earnings and make them weak little girly men. You're so full of it, sometimes it amazes even me. Why don't you go take responsibility for yourself and let other people do as they wish?
That's nice DM, but it's BS. You said you wanted to force Walmart to allow unions. Well, we have laws concerning unions - and as long as Walmart follows the laws they can do what they wish. Which job would I choose? Neither, I've worked in the grocery business - it sucks. Although I haven't ruled it out as a possibility depending on the management level I'd be at - and I can guarantee that I wouldn't be at the base pay of either of your examples.
Yes, giving up one's individual freedoms for the collective is a weakness. Does it make someone a girly man?
No, but the idea that they need someone else to do their bidding shows weakness. This idea that the collective knows better for the individual than the individual does is utter tripe. Joining the collective means you compromise your own freedoms. CkG
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
When you curse, as I did, the message will not go though and puts this message in your post. It asks you to go back and correct the misake, which I did but leaves this warning in there. I could have removed it manually and proabablly should have to avoid confusion but it was late and I was lazy.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 24K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter