The Ultimate Wal Mart Thread; Is Wal Mart good for America

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Feb 3, 2001
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Funny, I couldn't seem to find anything online about Wal Mart having a welfare department, so I went down to the local Wal Mart and began asking employees. 10 out of 10 told me "If they have a welfare department, I don't know about it." 2 of these 10 were department managers (electronics and garden center) and one was an assistant manager.

Looks like someone's a liar.

And on the off chance that all these people who actually *work* at Wal Mart are wrong and they do encourage their employees to take welfare, that is in NO WAY an indictment of the Free Market. Instead it is another clear indicator of why we should ELIMINATE welfare altogether.

You like to PRETEND that you care in some way about the future, but the fact is that people like you, Bowfinger, care about one thing only: Legalizing theft so that you can give money that doesn't belong to you to causes you think are important. There's nothing moral or superior about you, you're little more than a thief who wants legal backing for your burglary.

Jason
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Apparently, DMA, your ideology is interfering with your perceptions. Let us not speak of things as they should be, but rather of things as they are.

Walmart holds workers to 37 hours/week or less, in order to avoid paying greater unemployment and workers comp expenses. just the way it is. So, that's a max of 1924 hrs/yr at $8.50/hr = $16,354/yr.

Carry that figure to here, the earned income tax credits charts for 2002 (2003 will be similar) and take a look at the usual situations- you'll see that these folks will receive a tax stipend of a few thousand dollars. That's taxpayer money, YOUR money. Just the way it is.

http://taxguide.completetax.com/tools/eic_m.asp

Depending on the state of residence, these folks are also eligible for other taxpayer provided services. Just the way it is-

http://whosecapitalism.typepad.com/blog/2003/11/walmart.html

Be sure to follow the link to the SF Chronicle for info about walmart's site for employees, helps them obtain free or low cost services...

Walmart makes money from people who don't even shop there by shifting some of the cost of doing business onto the taxpayers. Just the way it is, and they know it better than their fanboys, bet on that...
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Yeah, he went down to his local Walmart and asked 10 people. :)

And I thought Texmaster was bad calling up his brother-in-law to win an online debate. :)
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Funny, I couldn't seem to find anything online about Wal Mart having a welfare department, so I went down to the local Wal Mart and began asking employees. 10 out of 10 told me "If they have a welfare department, I don't know about it." 2 of these 10 were department managers (electronics and garden center) and one was an assistant manager.

Looks like someone's a liar.

And on the off chance that all these people who actually *work* at Wal Mart are wrong and they do encourage their employees to take welfare, that is in NO WAY an indictment of the Free Market. Instead it is another clear indicator of why we should ELIMINATE welfare altogether.

You like to PRETEND that you care in some way about the future, but the fact is that people like you, Bowfinger, care about one thing only: Legalizing theft so that you can give money that doesn't belong to you to causes you think are important. There's nothing moral or superior about you, you're little more than a thief who wants legal backing for your burglary.

Jason

From the San Francisco Chronicle. This was referenced early in the thread:
HEALTH CARE: A RIGHT OR A PRIVILEGE?
Wal-Mart's welfare dependency

Our governor-elect and the Legislature are about to embark on another cycle of budget discussions. In normal budget times, it is a moral obligation for lawmakers to spend taxpayers' funds wisely. During the worst budget crisis in California's history, it is imperative. Every dollar spent should be used strategically, effectively and toward meeting our obligation to protect our most vulnerable citizens and to educate the next generation.

That is what makes recent revelations about Wal-Mart, one of the world's wealthiest corporations and the largest private employer in America, so disturbing. Wal-Mart is one of many large corporations that skimp on health care for their employees. Inadequate health insurance coverage, high deductibles and cost-sharing that is out of reach for low-wage workers add to the corporate bottom-line. Wal-Mart also reportedly carefully controls the number of workers who achieve full-time status and higher benefit levels.

In the marketplace, where one of these giants is competing against a small business that is responsible to its workers and to the community, the giant will win every time.

Who picks up the tab for this lack of responsibility? We all do. Wal-Mart provides its workers with access to a Web-based service that allows a county social services worker to immediately verify income and employment. Such access can help to qualify workers quickly for Medi-Cal benefits, food stamps and other taxpayer-funded aid.

While the use of this fast-tracked system may help deliver government services to those who qualify for them; it can also raises a number of concerns: In an environment of low wages and meager benefits, it can be seen as encouraging big business to make taxpayer-funded services a part of their business plan.

The use of this system obscures information consumers need to make informed decisions. When consumers buy back-to-school clothes at Wal-Mart they should know whether they are encouraging a business practice that relies on siphoning taxpayer dollars out of education and other state needs.

Lawmakers must also consider whether it is appropriate for large, wealthy corporations to become welfare-dependent and should close any loopholes that lead to inappropriate use of scarce human service resources. Nothing should encourage corporations to "game the system'' or to claim unfair advantages.

It is helpful here to contrast our expectations of individuals with those we have for major corporations. When an individual uses Medi-Cal benefits, they may become subject to California's Medi-Cal Estate Recovery Program. Under this program, the state places liens against the assets of elderly, low- income Californians to recoup the costs for Medi-Cal coverage. Advocates have cited the example of the state of placing a lien on an aging mobile home.

If we expect the lowest-income Californians to reimburse the state when they receive benefits, then it makes sense to hold large, wealthy corporations similarly accountable. Despite turbulent economic conditions this year, Wal- Mart reported record profits and sales. Wal-Mart's earnings were more than $2. 5 billion, on total sales of $71 billion in the first quarter and more than $2.3 billion on total sales of $62 billion in the second quarter.

Our budget difficulties force to think about what kind of accountability we expect from each other -- and to begin to define good corporate citizenship in terms of what it is, rather than simply what it is not -- as honest partnerships, not just the absence of wrong-doing. Those we serve should expect nothing less.

Assemblywoman Sally Lieber represents the South Bay.




 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Gaard
Yeah, he went down to his local Walmart and asked 10 people. :)

And I thought Texmaster was bad calling up his brother-in-law to win an online debate. :)
We're missing an obvious possibility. Perhaps DMA's claim is true, he simply forgot to mention they were co-workers. That might explain his rabid attacks on anyone who criticizes Wal-Mart.
 

Ultima

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 1999
2,893
0
0
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Funny, I couldn't seem to find anything online about Wal Mart having a welfare department, so I went down to the local Wal Mart and began asking employees. 10 out of 10 told me "If they have a welfare department, I don't know about it." 2 of these 10 were department managers (electronics and garden center) and one was an assistant manager.

Looks like someone's a liar.

And on the off chance that all these people who actually *work* at Wal Mart are wrong and they do encourage their employees to take welfare, that is in NO WAY an indictment of the Free Market. Instead it is another clear indicator of why we should ELIMINATE welfare altogether.

You like to PRETEND that you care in some way about the future, but the fact is that people like you, Bowfinger, care about one thing only: Legalizing theft so that you can give money that doesn't belong to you to causes you think are important. There's nothing moral or superior about you, you're little more than a thief who wants legal backing for your burglary.

Jason

Dragon, few things piss me off more than people who leech off the welfare system but consider the alternative... can you imagine the crime and theft that would occur if there was no such thing as welfare? People with drug habits will steal and even kill to support their habits if they can't buy their drugs. Homeless people will fill business centers and spread disease. Like it or not, welfare is the lesser of evils.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,858
6,394
126
In an odd way Walmarts shenanigans strengthens the need for Nationalized Healthcare. It would level the playing field somewhat for its' competitors.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: sandorski
In an odd way Walmarts shenanigans strengthens the need for Nationalized Healthcare. It would level the playing field somewhat for its' competitors.

Only if you view Health Insurance as a "right". I do not.
Health insurance provided by(or partially paid for by) an employer is a "benefit".

The article Bow posted again made the claim that Walmart "skimps" on Health coverage for it's employees. While I may agree with that assessment - I also realize that it is well within WalMart's right to manage their own benefit packages. Also, the limiting of hours claim, while it may be a correct assessment - it is also within their rights as an employer to do so.
My wife works for a company who offers a similar health insurance plan(same Insurance company) as my company does. However, my company's plan is slightly better(better co-pays and OPMs) and costs less(by over a third) because my company picks up more of the premium. Does that mean that her company "skimps" too? Sure, and someone making $8/hr could have trouble paying for her premiums too. Does this make her company "bad"? Who gets to set the benefit packages and employee hours? That's right - the company does - not YOU and certainly not the gov't.

It all comes down to choice. People CHOOSE to work there, people know their hour totals, they know their benefit packages.

CkG
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: sandorski
In an odd way Walmarts shenanigans strengthens the need for Nationalized Healthcare. It would level the playing field somewhat for its' competitors.

Only if you view Health Insurance as a "right". I do not.
Health insurance provided by(or partially paid for by) an employer is a "benefit".

The article Bow posted again made the claim that Walmart "skimps" on Health coverage for it's employees. While I may agree with that assessment - I also realize that it is well within WalMart's right to manage their own benefit packages. Also, the limiting of hours claim, while it may be a correct assessment - it is also within their rights as an employer to do so.
My wife works for a company who offers a similar health insurance plan(same Insurance company) as my company does. However, my company's plan is slightly better(better co-pays and OPMs) and costs less(by over a third) because my company picks up more of the premium. Does that mean that her company "skimps" too? Sure, and someone making $8/hr could have trouble paying for her premiums too. Does this make her company "bad"? Who gets to set the benefit packages and employee hours? That's right - the company does - not YOU and certainly not the gov't.

It all comes down to choice. People CHOOSE to work there, people know their hour totals, they know their benefit packages.

CkG

Walmart skimping on their health benefits is probably one of the reasons why they have a 50% annual turnover on employees. People quit once they find companies with better pay/benefits.

Cost of employee retention vs cost of retraining low skill labor. Walmart apparently thinks it is cheaper to retrain.
 

Ultima

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 1999
2,893
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: sandorski
In an odd way Walmarts shenanigans strengthens the need for Nationalized Healthcare. It would level the playing field somewhat for its' competitors.

Only if you view Health Insurance as a "right". I do not.
Health insurance provided by(or partially paid for by) an employer is a "benefit".

Also, the limiting of hours claim, while it may be a correct assessment - it is also within their rights as an employer to do so.
CkG

It might be legal for them to do so but it certainly isn't within the "spirit" of the law to have someone working practically full-time yet still technically part-time. Maybe we should say that if someone works more than 7 hours/day over 5 days (35 hours) that they're full-time, instead of the current standard of 40 hours or whatever it is?
Also, do they count breaks as part of time worked?
When I worked at a seafood factory once I was working 40 hours a week.. getting paid for I think 35 hours because of lunch but it still counted as full-time and if I stayed there more than 40 hours the extra hours would be overtime..
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Ultima
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: sandorski
In an odd way Walmarts shenanigans strengthens the need for Nationalized Healthcare. It would level the playing field somewhat for its' competitors.

Only if you view Health Insurance as a "right". I do not.
Health insurance provided by(or partially paid for by) an employer is a "benefit".

Also, the limiting of hours claim, while it may be a correct assessment - it is also within their rights as an employer to do so.
CkG

It might be legal for them to do so but it certainly isn't within the "spirit" of the law to have someone working practically full-time yet still technically part-time. Maybe we should say that if someone works more than 7 hours/day over 5 days (35 hours) that they're full-time, instead of the current standard of 40 hours or whatever it is?


Then walmart would work employees one hour less than what the new minimum would be.
 

Ultima

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 1999
2,893
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Ultima
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: sandorski
In an odd way Walmarts shenanigans strengthens the need for Nationalized Healthcare. It would level the playing field somewhat for its' competitors.

Only if you view Health Insurance as a "right". I do not.
Health insurance provided by(or partially paid for by) an employer is a "benefit".

Also, the limiting of hours claim, while it may be a correct assessment - it is also within their rights as an employer to do so.
CkG

It might be legal for them to do so but it certainly isn't within the "spirit" of the law to have someone working practically full-time yet still technically part-time. Maybe we should say that if someone works more than 7 hours/day over 5 days (35 hours) that they're full-time, instead of the current standard of 40 hours or whatever it is?


Then walmart would work employees one hour less than what the new minimum would be.

It would happen less, because they would have to hire more employees in order to keep them below the minimum. The difference from 40 to 35 means they have to hire 15% more employees if they want to keep everyone below the minimum.

The lower the minimum, the more they have to hire and it would be much harder for them to get enough employees leaving them no choice but to either raise wages to attract more employees or give their employees more hours thus giving them full-time status. In either scenario, the employees benefit.. and if Walmart wasn't so antisocial it might realize that it would benefit too, because employees that can make more money are happier employees which means better service for the customer. The service is so terrible there, the door greeter looks like she will die from boredom and the alarms are often going off from shoplifters because the employees don't give a damn to chase after them.

Personally, I never go to walmart anymore. They don't do the superstore thing where I live and what they do have is not really less expensive than other stores. Oh sure, it's a bit cheaper, but it is also cheap. What's more important to me though is the crappy customer service. Just like McDonalds, the employees hate their jobs and it shows.

Because Walmart is so cheap, they're not even located in malls. If by chance they're near a mall, they're still not connected lls so you have to walk outside to get to the store. There's no overhang so if it's raining you're bombarded till you get in front of the doors. WTF is the point when I can just go to the mall and go to some other department store? Less driving that way too. Speaking of driving.. their parking lot design sucks. No trees, no grass, no landscaping.. bah.. everything about them just sucks. At least where I live, I fortunately have the choice of not having to shop there. I'm sorry for those of you that live in areas where there is nothing but welfarelmart because it poisoned the competition...

Hahah.. speaking of welfaremart it kind of sucks for a significant portion of their customer base that takes the bus when they build next to highways or in other obscure places where there is no bus service! In Lasalle near I live they build a walmart on a former toxic waste dump about 1/3 mile from the nearest bus stop (last I checked). doesn't sound like much but try doing that distance with a baby carriage and a bunch of bags... or just the bags sans baby carriage. in bad weather. I've noticed that a lot of the people going there are getting there by the bus.
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Jhhnn,

If the employees don't like working 37 hours a week, they are free to quit, simple as that. I've read the above referenced links, as well as many others, and am well aware that many people who make such a low wage --people who work for MANY companies, not just Wal Mart --, draw on welfare or other alternative areas, including the extra money they get back in taxes --money they didn't pay in the first place but was stolen from someone else.

Your examples don't make the case for why welfare or the unfair tax system is good or should be kept, if they do anything they illustrate why they should be SCRAPPED. Perhaps if there weren't legalized theft from some people to provide those benefits for people who make only $8 an hour, fewer people, or at least fewer people who have a good *reason* to, would refuse to work for such rates and either find an alternative method of earning a living. There's a certain amount of conjecture there, to be sure, but if you would accomplish no other goal by removing the system of legalized theft, you would accomplish Justice, and that's worth accomplishing.

As for you, Nutfinger, I'm afraid I haven't worked the likes of a Wal Mart job since the days when I was as unskilled and uneducated as yourself. I'll freely admit I've worked some crappy jobs; KMart, Wal Mart, both while I was taking classes in Networking many years ago, and like so many others I made jack. I scraped by, and it wasn't wonderful, but I DID make it, and the fact that I wasn't making a lot of cash was more INCENTIVE for me to continue working toward my education and getting MYSELF to a level where I had skills that were WORTH a decent wage. The ONLY people who should work low wage jobs such as those at Wal Mart (or pretty much any retail environment) are those people who have only themselves to support, and preferably while they are working toward improving their skill set. If you're the kind of person who REFUSES to improve yourself and make yourself a more marketable commodity, that is YOUR fault and you have NO RIGHT to steal from me or anyone else in order to make up the difference.

And Ultima, lastly, you're telling me that people with nasty drug habits will only go out and break into peoples homes and steal to support their self-destructive habits, so to avoid that we should *LEGALIZE* theft and empower government to do the dirty work FOR these people? What kind of logic is that?!

You people need to ask yourself a very simple question: Does any one man have a RIGHT to take the justly earned property of another? You need to ask that question and reach your final answer, because that is the issue you are dealing with here.

Jason
 

Ultima

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 1999
2,893
0
0
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Jhhnn,

And Ultima, lastly, you're telling me that people with nasty drug habits will only go out and break into peoples homes and steal to support their self-destructive habits, so to avoid that we should *LEGALIZE* theft and empower government to do the dirty work FOR these people? What kind of logic is that?!

You people need to ask yourself a very simple question: Does any one man have a RIGHT to take the justly earned property of another? You need to ask that question and reach your final answer, because that is the issue you are dealing with here.

Jason

When you're dealing with people with drug habits and the like, the situation moves beyond logic. Logic cannot and will not solve these problems. Logic is meant to deal with rational problems and drug abusers, by their very nature, are not rational.

If we were to follow logic, eliminating welfare, subsidized housing and whatever else falls under logic and throwing the people out on to the streets, if would be chaos. Let's throw all the young druggies out of the rehab programs and on to the streets where they belong, throw all those welfare leeches out of their apartments and on to the streets, but don't complain when you find that more innocent people are getting mugged and killed because the drug addicts have no other source of income, when people in the ghettos take matter into their own hands and loot and pillage shops, and the homeless ravage the central business districts in unprecedented numbers and spread diseases and leave their needles on the sidewalk. Don't complain when the mentally insane roam through the streets, don't complain when the military has to be called in because of the riots.

Logic doesn't make sense with illogical behavior and beings (humans). To answer your question, I would rather these people get a few hundred dollars a month courtesy of the taxpayers even if they're going to blow it on drugs and alcohol than they smash and loot the store or knife somebody in the back. I would rather the would-be homeless live in a subsidized apartment somewhere, however destitute the place may be, at least they're not being a hazard and a nuisance being homeless in the city. I would rather money be spent on rehab programs for those that can be helped than see them spread their needles on the sidewalks. It's called an investment in society.. just like subsidies to education, or would you like to see those eliminated too?

Maybe you will realize, too, that there is more to a society that needs to be taken care of than can be provided by the free market alone sans government.

Now, don't take this to mean that there can't or there shouldn't be reform. I knew a 35 year old loser who was unemployed and living off welfare although perfectly capable to work.. no drug habits or anything else that would make him dangerous, and he had family. I'm all for people like that getting their asses kicked off welfare.. it's not like he would have had to live on the streets anyways. Like I said, he had family.

Public transport is something else that needs reform.. I'm all for meaningful subway and bus lines but am disgusted by the billions of dollars wasted on trolley lines that end up moving a couple tens of thousands of people a day and still have to be subsidized even after the billions poured into construction.. so don't mistake me for something that I'm not. I know that I will never be on the dependant side (for government welfare.. right now I still do depend on my family to some extent, but you and I know that is not the same thing) because I'm not predisposed to abuse drugs (I'm not interested in alcohol except as a social drink, for instance), I want a good life for myself and I always want to become better than I am and improve my lot in life. I've taken a bank loan instead of a government loan, I've told my parents to f*ck off even though I can legally sue them to support me through college with the govt. paying for the lawyer, simply because I have more pride in doing it this way. I do realize the value however in welfare and rehab for some people.. because society as a whole benefits.
 
Feb 3, 2001
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OK, we're getting closer to meaningful comprehension, Ultima. Funding for programs that help *elevate* people and put them on the track to self-reliance are one thing; handing lazy good-for-nothings a living is quite another. I'm all for educational programs (though I'd prefer it if they would eliminate things like Tenure for crappy teachers) but I'll disagree with you about drug problems being unable to be dealt with logically. It is PRECISELY logic that you NEED in order to deal with a drug addict. The drug addicts *themselves* may not be in a rational state of mind, but their problem is most assuredly a logical one (cause and effect, action and consequence) and should be dealt with in a rational way through therapy, rehab and so on.

But these aren't the things I'm condemning. I condemn the notion that people who *won't* make an effort to sustain their lives have a *right* to a living off the backs of those who *do*. That's an entirely different discussion.

Jason
 

Ultima

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 1999
2,893
0
0
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
OK, we're getting closer to meaningful comprehension, Ultima. Funding for programs that help *elevate* people and put them on the track to self-reliance are one thing; handing lazy good-for-nothings a living is quite another. I'm all for educational programs (though I'd prefer it if they would eliminate things like Tenure for crappy teachers) but I'll disagree with you about drug problems being unable to be dealt with logically. It is PRECISELY logic that you NEED in order to deal with a drug addict. The drug addicts *themselves* may not be in a rational state of mind, but their problem is most assuredly a logical one (cause and effect, action and consequence) and should be dealt with in a rational way through therapy, rehab and so on.

But these aren't the things I'm condemning. I condemn the notion that people who *won't* make an effort to sustain their lives have a *right* to a living off the backs of those who *do*. That's an entirely different discussion.

Jason

I would support guaranteed "workfare" for those physically able to do work.. give 'em food, a place to sleep, and some spending money, but make them do the jobs that nobody really wants to do.. cleaning the sides of highways, weeding, picking up dog sh!t in parks, stuff like that. The important thing is that they are never turned down if they are willing to work for the food and cash.
Speaking of weeding.. that was my first ever summer job at 16, 10 cents above minimum wage of the time too ;)

As an eligibility for welfare, I would support requiring drug testing and psych evaluation. For thsoe determined to have a drug problem (I mean a drug PROBLEM.. alcohol or drug abuse.. somebody shooting up, not somebody smoking joints).. send 'em to a boot-camp style rehab program on a base somewhere for a month and see how they're shaping up then.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Ultima
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Ultima
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: sandorski
In an odd way Walmarts shenanigans strengthens the need for Nationalized Healthcare. It would level the playing field somewhat for its' competitors.

Only if you view Health Insurance as a "right". I do not.
Health insurance provided by(or partially paid for by) an employer is a "benefit".

Also, the limiting of hours claim, while it may be a correct assessment - it is also within their rights as an employer to do so.
CkG

It might be legal for them to do so but it certainly isn't within the "spirit" of the law to have someone working practically full-time yet still technically part-time. Maybe we should say that if someone works more than 7 hours/day over 5 days (35 hours) that they're full-time, instead of the current standard of 40 hours or whatever it is?


Then walmart would work employees one hour less than what the new minimum would be.

It would happen less, because they would have to hire more employees in order to keep them below the minimum. The difference from 40 to 35 means they have to hire 15% more employees if they want to keep everyone below the minimum.

The lower the minimum, the more they have to hire and it would be much harder for them to get enough employees leaving them no choice but to either raise wages to attract more employees or give their employees more hours thus giving them full-time status. In either scenario, the employees benefit.. and if Walmart wasn't so antisocial it might realize that it would benefit too, because employees that can make more money are happier employees which means better service for the customer. The service is so terrible there, the door greeter looks like she will die from boredom and the alarms are often going off from shoplifters because the employees don't give a damn to chase after them.

Personally, I never go to walmart anymore. They don't do the superstore thing where I live and what they do have is not really less expensive than other stores. Oh sure, it's a bit cheaper, but it is also cheap. What's more important to me though is the crappy customer service. Just like McDonalds, the employees hate their jobs and it shows.

Because Walmart is so cheap, they're not even located in malls. If by chance they're near a mall, they're still not connected lls so you have to walk outside to get to the store. There's no overhang so if it's raining you're bombarded till you get in front of the doors. WTF is the point when I can just go to the mall and go to some other department store? Less driving that way too. Speaking of driving.. their parking lot design sucks. bah.. everything about them just sucks. At least where I live, I fortunately have the choice of not having to shop there. I'm sorry for those of you that live in areas where there is nothing but welfarelmart because it poisoned the competition...

Hahah.. speaking of welfaremart it kind of sucks for a significant portion of their customer base that takes the bus when they build next to highways or in other obscure places where there is no bus service! In Lasalle near I live they build a walmart on a former toxic waste dump about 1/3 mile from the nearest bus stop (last I checked). doesn't sound like much but try doing that distance with a baby carriage and a bunch of bags... or just the bags sans baby carriage. in bad weather. I've noticed that a lot of the people going there are getting there by the bus.

Good post Ultima. I am normally for smaller Government and staying out of Business but the Government has been getting into Business on a scale of coming up with every way from Sunday to destroy every spirit of every Law that was passed to "Protect" the citizens of this Country from unscrupolous Greedy and I feel criminal Executives. Simply look at the best examples, Enron, Worldcom, Parmalat etc etc the list goes on and grows everyday.

It is high time we take back Government any way possible by breaking the Regimes that are controlled by big Business. In a way The Bush Regime has been good, they have clearly exposed the corruption to the point that they have to resort to brainwashing to try and cover it. Luckily not all of the population is susceptible to brainwashing which is why you have revolts.

Putting the screws to Companies like Walmart like lowering the Full Time hours to 32 hours would force them to treat their employees as a "workforce" and not a "slaveforce". It's just a tic above paid legal slavery and they know it.

 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
"Putting the screws to Companies like Walmart like lowering the Full Time hours to 32 hours would force them to treat their employees as a "workforce" and not a "slaveforce". It's just a tic above paid legal slavery and they know it."

I'm afraid, Dave, that they'd just hire more workers, cut everybody's hours to 30/wk... It'll take more fundamental changes to reign in walmart.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
"Putting the screws to Companies like Walmart like lowering the Full Time hours to 32 hours would force them to treat their employees as a "workforce" and not a "slaveforce". It's just a tic above paid legal slavery and they know it."

I'm afraid, Dave, that they'd just hire more workers, cut everybody's hours to 30/wk... It'll take more fundamental changes to reign in walmart.

True, however continuously forcing them to change the employee equation of their Business Model (which BTW is clearly the case by lowering cost of doing business by treating your employess the sh1ttiest possible is disgusting and should be labeled such and Un-American unless everyone likes China's workforce Model) would create enough of a headache for them that it could disrupt the Steamroll they are on long enough for decent Competition to grab a hold and unseat their Butts from high and mighty status.



 

Ultima

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 1999
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I would support full-time status at 32 hours with overtime still getting paid at 40 hours...
They would have to hire 25% more employees to compensate for the hour reduction, which as I explained more fully in my post above means either higher wages or full-time status granted to some employees. This way, too, the company is free to choose whether to hire more employees, pay them more, give them more hours or not. They are perfectly free to not do any of these things, however this way they can't take advantage of the 40 hours full-time status law. :)

You know, actually, since Walmart thinks 28 hours is fulltime, make it 28 hours, and make this apply to the retail sector only (a number that low might cause problems in manufacturing etc..). At 28 hours that's 43% more employees to hire. I wonder how they would like their so-called "full-time" employees actually having full-time status when Walmart can't find another 43% to keep everyone under that limit.
 

bdjohnson

Senior member
Oct 29, 2003
748
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walmart is a crummy store run by crummy ppl who are greedy and dont care about employing aliens to save money
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Originally posted by: bdjohnson
walmart is a crummy store run by crummy ppl who are greedy and dont care about employing aliens to save money
Hey if it weren't for Wally World who'd hire the Mentally Challenged*? I might not like their business model that much but I do think it's rather nice of them to give those who are Mentally Challenged* an opportunity to participate in the workforce.


*PC for Mentally Retarded.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
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Again, DMA, you're letting ideology get in the way of your perceptions. I think that I've accurately described the situation, and will add that with very high unemployment, as we have now, even the lowest jobs won't remain open for long- just the way it is, right? Somebody will fill that walmart job.

And, of course, walmart and other business giants oppose any kind of changes to labor laws that work to their disadvantage, and will also oppose any changes that deny their ability to transfer the cost of doing business onto the taxpayers. Just the way it is.

Walmart is a leading player in the offshoring of jobs, maintaining low wage rates, and even exploiting illegal immigrant labor. Just the way it is.

Like a Dairyman who won't feed his cows enough to survive, walmart's and others' milking of the american economy for profits will come to an end, with cows who can't give milk... just the way it is...

It really is a form of looting, of taking more than you put in. And we blame it on welfare recipients, while perceiving taxes as theft and maintaining the "right" of employers and investors to act this way. Just the way it is, apparently...