The Ultimate SM3.0 Game Thread

[housecat]

*drives by thread*

*stops*

*points and doubles over laughing at bar81*

 

[302efi]

Originally posted by: housecat
*drives by thread*

*stops*

*points and doubles over laughing at bar81*

Ditto

I was driving by in the other lane and made a U-turn...

 

[imported_Noob]

SM 3.0 makes no image quality improvement over 2.0, just more efficient code.

And BTW Bar91. Doom 3 supports SM 3.0 as well

 

[MisterChief]

Excuse me for being inquisitive, but which video card has the most "mordern" feature set? And I mean current retail cards, not "on the drawing board, we'll tell you when it's done" stuff.

 

[Bar81]

Originally posted by: housecat
*drives by thread*

*stops*

*points and doubles over laughing at bar81*

*Drops boot in housecat's *ss, throws him out in the alley where he belongs*

 

[Bar81]

Originally posted by: Noob
SM 3.0 makes no image quality improvement over 2.0, just more efficient code.

And BTW Bar91. Doom 3 supports SM 3.0 as well

Are you sure about that? Can you give me a link?

 

[MisterChief]

Yo, peoples! Most modern feature set. Which card?

 

[Bar81]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Bar81

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Bar81

Thanks again for contributing so much to the facts in this thread. I guess personal attacks must make you right. Please leave this thread.

the ones who disagree with you are the ONLY ones contributing "facts" to this thread.

You have just posted your personal opinion and have started the flaming.

it's pretty clear that the main two manufacturers of video cards - nVidia AND ati - believe SM 3.0 is a VERY important feature set for the upcoming generation of games

who are you?
:roll:

Thanks again for contributing so much to the facts in this thread. I guess personal attacks must make you right. Please leave this thread.

i guess you can only copy and paste since you are UNABLE to defend yourself.


This is NOT the 'Ultimate' SM3.0 Game Thread
nor is your subtitle correct "Or what nvidia isn't telling you.."

ATI evidently agrees with nVidia . . . So, what aren't they telling us?

if you can't tell us, please STFU

See, I don't need to defend myself because all you're doing is attacking me and showing what you truly are. My answers to your illogical and retarded "posts" have already been given. Attempting to further insult me doesn't win you any points, it just makes you look like as big of an *ss as Rollo, Rage187, and housecat.

 

[lotus503]

wow this thread got comical about page 3.

Here is one for you, I just dropped another grand today on my crappy PC part of which was another 6800gt so I can SLI.

Some may say im stupid, I say back, I have more cash than you

 

[imported_Noob]

Originally posted by: Bar81

Originally posted by: Noob
SM 3.0 makes no image quality improvement over 2.0, just more efficient code.

And BTW Bar91. Doom 3 supports SM 3.0 as well

Are you sure about that? Can you give me a link?

I had posted a question regarding the same thing. Not one person said it made an image quality difference. Also I have done some random searches and found out it doesn't make an image quality difference. To be reasured, I would post a topic about it.

 

[Bar81]

Originally posted by: MisterChief
Yo, peoples! Most modern feature set. Which card?

Well, that's the question of the hour. On paper, the 6800 series has SM3.0 which gives it a slight edge over the X800 series. In reality however, as you can see from the original post, its questionable whether that means anything now or even in the future given as by the time true SM3.0 enabled games come out (written from the ground up with effects to utilize the increased efficiency of SM3.0) it's unlikely that the current generation of cards would even be able to play them at playable framerates with those effects enabled. Additionally, another concern is that SM2.0 isn't going to disappear anytime soon and SM3.0 as has been posted earlier doesn't offer any "new" effects, it's just that its increased efficiency should enable some effects that were up until now impossible to implement but which may in fact bring current 6800 cards to their needs as we see in Riddick where a single effect turns the game into a practical slideshow.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: MisterChief
Yo, peoples! Most modern feature set. Which card?

That one is easy Mister Chief:

ATI: DX9b, SM2b, 24 bit precision
nVidia: DX9c, SM3, 32 bit precision

DX9c is MS's current standard, ATI does not support it. DX9c came out last summer and has been the industry standard since then.

nVidia: SLI capability
ATI: working on it

So there you have it. ATIs next generation part is rumoured to have the features that nVidia has had in their parts since last May, sometime this year.

 

[Bar81]

Originally posted by: S0Lstice
wow this thread got comical about page 3.

Here is one for you, I just dropped another grand today on my crappy PC part of which was another 6800gt so I can SLI.

Some may say im stupid, I say back, I have more cash than you

Actually, this thread's IQ dropped well below zero when the peanut gallery decided to make an appearance en masse.

You're not stupid, as long as you made an informed decision. Enjoy.

 

[MisterChief]

Originally posted by: Bar81

Originally posted by: MisterChief
Yo, peoples! Most modern feature set. Which card?

Well, that's the question of the hour. On paper, the 6800 series has SM3.0 which gives it a slight edge over the X800 series. In reality however, as you can see from the original post, its questionable whether that means anything now or even in the future given as by the time true SM3.0 enabled games come out (written from the ground up with effects to utilize the increased efficiency of SM3.0) it's unlikely that the current generation of cards would even be able to play them at playable framerates with those effects enabled. Additionally, another concern is that SM2.0 isn't going to disappear anytime soon and SM3.0 as has been posted earlier doesn't offer any "new" effects, it's just that its increased efficiency should enable some effects that were up until now impossible to implement but which may in fact bring current 6800 cards to their needs as we see in Riddick where a single effect turns the game into a practical slideshow.

Thank you, my good sir! Now, these "new" effects you mention. What exactly do you mean? Are there actually new effects, or are earlier effects like shadows, reflections, particles, etc. being improved on?

 

[BFG10K]

As to FarCry, two things: (1) Please provide a link supporting your statement?

There are numerous articles on the subject and it's not my job to do your homework for you, especially since you're the one creating the thread without any understanding of what you're actually preaching.

What graphical effect does looping and branching have on the game?

Where did I claim it had one? Looping and branching allow multiple rendering passes to be collapsed into fewer passes, providing better performance. In many games SM 3.0 does nothing more than add performance for free which is always a good thing.

As to Painkiller, again please provide a link showing the doubling of speed

Why don't you test it yourself given you seem to be such an expert on the subject?

and a comparison of that new speed to the X800.

Another strawman. I never made any claims as to what - if any - speed changes there were on the X800 after 1.6.1 is applied.

Since people are lumping HDR in FarCry in with SM3.0, and because it *requires* SM3.0 to use in FarCry it's a legitimate feature worth noting.

Actually it has nothing to do with SM 3.0 but everything to do with FP blending which only the NV4x series supports.

 

[MisterChief]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: MisterChief
Yo, peoples! Most modern feature set. Which card?

That one is easy Mister Chief:

ATI: DX9b, SM2b, 24 bit precision
nVidiaX9c, SM3, 32 bit precision

DX9c is MS's current standard, ATI does not support it. DX9c came out last summer and has been the industry standard since then.

nVidia: SLI capability
ATI: working on it

So there you have it. ATIs next generation part is rumoured to have the features that nVidia has had in their parts since last May, sometime this year.

Thank you to you too, Rollo

 

[Bar81]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

As to FarCry, two things: (1) Please provide a link supporting your statement?

There are numerous articles on the subject and it's not my job to do your homework for you, especially since you're the one creating the thread without any understanding of what you're actually preaching.

What graphical effect does looping and branching have on the game?

Where did I claim it had one? Looping and branching allow multiple rendering passes to be collapsed into fewer passes, providing better performance. In many games SM 3.0 does nothing more than add performance for free which is always a good thing.

As to Painkiller, again please provide a link showing the doubling of speed

Why don't you test it yourself given you seem to be such an expert on the subject?

and a comparison of that new speed to the X800.

Another strawman. I never made any claims as to what - if any - speed changes there were on the X800 after 1.6.1 is applied.

Since people are lumping HDR in FarCry in with SM3.0, and because it *requires* SM3.0 to use in FarCry it's a legitimate feature worth noting.

Actually it has nothing to do with SM 3.0 but everything to do with FP blending which only the NV4x series supports.

Thanks for that informative post </sarcasm>. You provide NO evidence to back up any of your claims. If you're going to prove (a) point(s), back it up, it's not my job to do YOUR homework for you. Making unsubstantiated claims gets you nowhere.

As to your "non"claims what's the point of SM3.0 if the added speed STILL doesn't allow the 6800 to eclipse the X800. What I'm trying to determine is whether there is any advantage to SM3.0 Simply stating that it allows looping means nothing in reality, unless it gives the user some tangible benefit in relation to the X800. If SM3.0 doesn't make the 6800 faster than the X800 and the added shader effects when implemented cripple performance on current generation cards then WHAT'S THE POINT? It's only going to get worse as more demanding games are released. Having SM3.0 means nothing if it offers no realistic benefit over the X800.

 

[nRollo]

Thank you to you too, Rollo.

No problem Mister Chief.

My interest is piqued by the reputed doubling of framerates with SM3 in Painkiller. I've installed Painkiller again, downloaded the 1.61 patch, will post some before/after benches later tonight.

 

[Bar81]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Thank you to you too, Rollo.

No problem Mister Chief.

My interest is piqued by the reputed doubling of framerates with SM3 in Painkiller. I've installed Painkiller again, downloaded the 1.61 patch, will post some before/after benches later tonight.

Well, that would be fantastic. Actual information instead of flames. I'm very interested in the results also. Unfortunately my card precludes my own testing

 

[MisterChief]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Thank you to you too, Rollo.

No problem Mister Chief.

My interest is piqued by the reputed doubling of framerates with SM3 in Painkiller. I've installed Painkiller again, downloaded the 1.61 patch, will post some before/after benches later tonight.

Doubling, aye? Sounds interesting. Looking forward to the results.

BTW, have you observed this trend?:

Past: ATI and Intel
Present: AMD and nVidia

 

[Bar81]

Originally posted by: MisterChief

Originally posted by: Bar81

Originally posted by: MisterChief
Yo, peoples! Most modern feature set. Which card?

Well, that's the question of the hour. On paper, the 6800 series has SM3.0 which gives it a slight edge over the X800 series. In reality however, as you can see from the original post, its questionable whether that means anything now or even in the future given as by the time true SM3.0 enabled games come out (written from the ground up with effects to utilize the increased efficiency of SM3.0) it's unlikely that the current generation of cards would even be able to play them at playable framerates with those effects enabled. Additionally, another concern is that SM2.0 isn't going to disappear anytime soon and SM3.0 as has been posted earlier doesn't offer any "new" effects, it's just that its increased efficiency should enable some effects that were up until now impossible to implement but which may in fact bring current 6800 cards to their needs as we see in Riddick where a single effect turns the game into a practical slideshow.

Thank you, my good sir! Now, these "new" effects you mention. What exactly do you mean? Are there actually new effects, or are earlier effects like shadows, reflections, particles, etc. being improved on?

They aren't new effects per se, they are SM2.0 effects but SM3.0 has enhancements that allow these effects to be rendered more efficiently, which in *theory* should allow SM3.0 enabled cards to use effects that simply would cripple SM2.0 only cards. Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time seeing where this is the case, and Riddick's results really concern me as it seems that maybe today's cards simply aren't powerful enough, *even with* SM3.0 to use the so far unused parts of the SM2.0 spec.

 

[BFG10K]

Thanks for that informative post

Facts speak louder than trolls I'm afraid.

You provide NO evidence to back up any of your claims.

You must have me mistaken for you.

If you're going to prove (a) point(s), back it up, it's not my job to do YOUR homework for you.

:roll:

I see, so you can produce a troll thread and it's our job to disprove you? I'm sorry but it just doesn't work that way. Your entire debating paradigm shows an alarming lack of understanding on your part.

As to your "non"claims what's the point of SM3.0 if the added speed STILL doesn't allow the 6800 to eclipse the X800.

Another strawman. You really need to get out of the hay barn and into the sunshine.

Simply stating that it allows looping means nothing in reality, unless it gives the user some tangible benefit in relation to the X800.

And it does. Look at FC benchmarks (for example) running under SM 2.0 and SM 3.0 and you'll see the NV4x series edges ATi under SM 3.0 in some situations but under SM 2.0 they were usually always outclassed.

As for SM 3.0 in Painkiller, the fact that you can't reproduce it is your problem, not mine.

added shader effects when implemented cripple performance on current generation cards

Except you don't have to add new effects to see benefits from SM 3.0.

 

[MisterChief]

They aren't new effects per se, they are SM2.0 effects but SM3.0 has enhancements that allow these effects to be rendered more efficiently, which in *theory* should allow SM3.0 enabled cards to use effects that simply would cripple SM2.0 only cards. Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time seeing where this is the case, and Riddick's results really concern me as it seems that maybe today's cards simply aren't powerful enough, *even with* SM3.0 to use the so far unused parts of the SM2.0 spec.

I'm glad to see that Riddick is finally getting the attention it deserves. Some parts of SM2.0 are still unused? I find that ackward, seeing that the standard has been around for quite some time.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: MisterChief
Yo, peoples! Most modern feature set. Which card?

Ok, I'm gonna try to give you an unbiased opinion: both cards have certain features that the other doesnt. Ati has normal map compression, temporal anti-aliasing, and some other features, they're not widely used, at least not yet. Nvidia has SM3, 32-bit precision, sli, and supports the newer version of directx.

If I were to chose one card based solely on features, I would say nvidia has the more modern feature set. If I were to actually go and buy one of these cards, however, I would get an ati card, because I dont have faith in nvidia's ability to deliver in practice what they promise on paper. If you think about it, nvidia's 5xxx series of cards also had better and more modern features than ati's 9xxx cards, but in practice, nvidia got beaten badly in that generation, because the fx cards couldnt deliver the kind of performance that people expected.

Maybe this generation will turn out differently, and I know a bunch of people are gonna have different opinions, but a of now, it's too early to tell.

 

[Bar81]

Originally posted by: Noob

Originally posted by: Bar81

Originally posted by: Noob
SM 3.0 makes no image quality improvement over 2.0, just more efficient code.

And BTW Bar91. Doom 3 supports SM 3.0 as well

Are you sure about that? Can you give me a link?

I had posted a question regarding the same thing. Not one person said it made an image quality difference. Also I have done some random searches and found out it doesn't make an image quality difference. To be reasured, I would post a topic about it.

Please post back with your findings.