The Thread from the Seventh Circle of Hades

[Bluga]

<< Is the United States preparing to march into Canada or Mexico? You're a pure, unadulterated idiot. >>



lol, is Mexico or Canada worth invading?

Did Roman, Chinese, Alexander Empire conquor the whole world?

 

[joohang]

<< And the reason they were called 'empires" was because they wanted to physically conquer the entire known world. >>


BTW, China didn't want to conquer the entire known world. The Han dynasty, for example, was aware of the Roman Empire and India, but they were satisfied after conquering a portion of their known world. Is this any different than the US other than the fact that we are talking about different time periods?

Same goes to Romans. They knew about Germany but eventually were satisfied with what they had.

I define "empires" as a conglomerate state that strongly dominates its influence over other nations. They don't necessarily "conquer" all territories around them.

 

[XMan]

<< Perhaps, but it has had the longest peaceful transfer of power of any nation in recorded history. >>


Not sure what you mean by "transfer of power" but the most "peaceful" nation in recorded history is Korea.

He means that the United States has had a bloodless coup every four or eight years since the nation was founded.

 

[Random Variable]

<<

<< Is the United States preparing to march into Canada or Mexico? You're a pure, unadulterated idiot. >>



lol, is Mexico or Canada worth invading?

Did Roman, Chinese, Alexander Empire conquor the whole world? >>


They didn't know the dimensions of the entire world.

 

[joohang]

<< Oh, Czar, my Icelandic friend. If it wasn't for the United States, western Europe would have become a part of the Soviet Union. >>


That's a speculation. It is clear that the US helped Europe to a very large extent, but you make it sound like the Soviets could've easily "consumed" the entire Western Europe. That's a very dangerous (from an academic point of view) statement.

 

[ToBeMe]

<<

<< Oh, Czar, my Icelandic friend. If it wasn't for the United States, western Europe would have become a part of the Soviet Union. >>


That's a speculation. It is clear that the US helped Europe to a very large extent, but you make it sound like the Soviets could've easily "consumed" the entire Western Europe. That's a very dangerous (from an academic point of view) statement. >>


Exactly who would have stopped them if not for U.S. influence and presence????? The French??????

 

[Random Variable]

<<

<< Oh, Czar, my Icelandic friend. If it wasn't for the United States, western Europe would have become a part of the Soviet Union. >>


That's a speculation. It is clear that the US helped Europe to a very large extent, but you make it sound like the Soviets could've easily "consumed" the entire Western Europe. That's a very dangerous (from an academic point of view) statement. >>



First of all, you are correct that the Chinese empire did not really have aspirations to conquer the world.

But I don't see how western Europe could have stopped the advances of the Russians after WWII, especially considering that the continent was in tatters.

 

[freegeeks]

Vespasian

I think you have some sort of weird obsession with "everybody hates the US and especially those bleeding-heart-european-liberals"
Europe is your biggest ally -- EUROPEANS DO NOT HATE AMERICANS --

the fact is when a non US forum member posts something like "I dont agree with GWB foreign policy" the poor chap gets flamed like hell

bashing on the "stinking-only-bath-once-in-a-week-french" and the "poor-dental-hygiene-UK-chaps" is of course a very popular sport in OT and a LOT of the US members do it regularly -- almost every day there are threads with that kind of EURO-Bashing --

it's amazing that there are some Euro members left to post on this board after all the crap we have to read

and for the last time -- we don't hate americans -- in fact every year I spent 4 weeks of my paid vacation in the US because i like it that much (in the summer i'm going to Oregon on a backpacking trip).

 

[Bluga]

<< BTW, China didn't want to conquer the entire known world. The Han dynasty, for example, was aware of the Roman Empire and India, but they were satisfied after conquering a portion of their known world. Is this any different than the US other than the fact that we are talking about different time periods?

Same goes to Romans. They knew about Germany but eventually were satisfied with what they had.

I define "empires" as a conglomerate state that strongly dominates its influence over other nations. They don't necessarily "conquer" all territories around them. ? >>



Exactly, they won Respect from other countries, instead of the one we are talking about now.

 

[Texmaster]

<< thats so true, we need more "good" threads about the world here >>




Hey Czar, next time you start a positive thread about US politics, let me know

 

[SuperTool]

America is like the ACLU.
People love to hate it until they are in trouble and need help.

 

[freegeeks]

Hey Czar, next time you start a positive thread about US politics, let me know

Texmaster -- next time you have anything positive to say about Europe, let me also know

 

[Random Variable]

<< Vespasian

I think you have some sort of weird obsession with "everybody hates the US and especially those bleeding-heart-european-liberals"
Europe is your biggest ally -- EUROPEANS DO NOT HATE AMERICANS --

the fact is when a non US forum member posts something like "I dont agree with GWB foreign policy" the poor chap gets flamed like hell

bashing on the "stinking-only-bath-once-in-a-week-french" and the "poor-dental-hygiene-UK-chaps" is of course a very popular sport in OT and a LOT of the US members do it regularly -- almost every day there are threads with that kind of EURO-Bashing --

it's amazing that there are some Euro members left to post on this board after all the crap we have to read

and for the last time -- we don't hate americans -- in fact every year I spent 4 weeks of my paid vacation in the US because i like it that much (in the summer i'm going to Oregon on a backpacking trip). >>


I'm only referring to the European governments and the European media, not every individual European. I apologize if you thought I was. Sorry.

 

[Texmaster]

Europeans call us arrogant when we nothing, then turn around and call us "arrogant" for doing something.

Europeans scream about human rights for Taliban prisnors but dont want to invade terrorist countries who have clear cases of human rights vioations.

Europeans call themselves enlightened and culturally superior to americans yet they continue to stay close minded to ideas that are not their own.


And I could go on and on and on.

Its all about winners vs whiners

 

[ToBeMe]

<< America is like the ACLU.
People love to hate it until they are in trouble and need help. >>



SO TRUE!!!!

 

[joohang]

<< We could have taken over Germany and Japan after WWII. But did we? No! Instead we gave them billions of dollars to rebuild their countries. >>


Yes, Americans did pour in billions of dollars to rebuild their countries. But you can approach it in different perspectives.

Americans dropped 2 atom bombs in Japan - the reasons behind it are debateable.

Are you saying that the American government had no self-interest in developing Japan and Germany (Please note that I don't deny that they could've partially helped Japan and Germany purely out of good deed.)? You mean that Americans had no economic interests whatsoever in developing Japan and Germany? Or was it because they wanted to stop the communists?

I can stretch this a bit further with Korea. There are so many mysterious stuff that happened during the 5 years between the end of WWII and the Korean War. Theodore Roosevelt in 1905 agreed to give away Korea to Japan. Americans had no interests whatsoever about Korea. Then, all of a sudden, Korea turned into a hot spot. Americans splitted Korea in half with the Soviets. Then, much of the American military withdrew from Korea. WTF? It was as though they begged the communists to attack. Then, when the commies did attack, Americans provided massive support to defend the south Koreans.

Now, before you flame me, I am soooooo damn glad that the Americans supported South Korea. Whether Americans did this out of good deed or self-interest is debatable, in my opinion.

 

[Random Variable]

<<

<< BTW, China didn't want to conquer the entire known world. The Han dynasty, for example, was aware of the Roman Empire and India, but they were satisfied after conquering a portion of their known world. Is this any different than the US other than the fact that we are talking about different time periods?

Same goes to Romans. They knew about Germany but eventually were satisfied with what they had.

I define "empires" as a conglomerate state that strongly dominates its influence over other nations. They don't necessarily "conquer" all territories around them. ? >>



Exactly, they won Respect from other countries, instead of the one we are talking about now. >>


The Romans won the respect of other countries or people? What history book are you reading. Good lord!

 

[XMan]

Europeans scream about human rights for Taliban prisnors but dont want to invade terrorist countries who have clear cases of human rights vioations.

Especially ironic when you consider what the British and French have done to IRA and Action Directe prisoners.

 

[Texmaster]

<< Hey Czar, next time you start a positive thread about US politics, let me know

Texmaster -- next time you have anything positive to say about Europe, let me also know >>



HAHAHAHAHA I love it. Right into the trap. It just so happens I praised the European drive towards electric cars not too long ago

Damn that was easy

 

[joohang]

<< Exactly, they won Respect from other countries, instead of the one we are talking about now. >>


The Romans won the respect of other countries or people? What history book are you reading. Good lord![/i] >>


Yeah, I don't agree that they won respect either. I was merely suggesting that empires don't necessarily have to conquer the whole of "known world."

 

[Texmaster]

<< BTW, China didn't want to conquer the entire known world. The Han dynasty, for example, was aware of the Roman Empire and India, but they were satisfied after conquering a portion of their known world. Is this any different than the US other than the fact that we are talking about different time periods?

Same goes to Romans. They knew about Germany but eventually were satisfied with what they had.

I define "empires" as a conglomerate state that strongly dominates its influence over other nations. They don't necessarily "conquer" all territories around them. ?

Exactly, they won Respect from other countries, instead of the one we are talking about now. >>




Oh God not another European comparing the US to Rome.

Spare us please. Romans burned down Greek Libraries, kept slaves, treated women as property and conquered as much land as possible.

How in Hell do you even try to make the comparison without looking like a complete fool?

Every world war began in Europe. And the biggest reason the wars continued was becase the winner rubbed it in the face of the looser for years and years.

Napeolen did it to Germania and eastern Europe, the Britsh and French did it to Germany after World War I, and both times, the defeated rose up again only to make more war.

It didn't happen after World War II because the US jumped in to rebuild not rub it in the face of the looser. THATS the difference and thats why it hasn't recoccurred.

 

[joohang]

<< He means that the United States has had a bloodless coup every four or eight years since the nation was founded. >>


That's a tough one because "transfer of power" needs to be clearly defined.

I don't believe that Japan ever overthrew the emperor, albeit he has no political power. Is that a peaceful transfer of power?

Korea and China had numerous cases of bloodless succession of power without a bloody coup throughout their history. Each of such cases I refer to lasted well over 200 years.

 

[ToBeMe]

<<

<< We could have taken over Germany and Japan after WWII. But did we? No! Instead we gave them billions of dollars to rebuild their countries. >>


Yes, Americans did pour in billions of dollars to rebuild their countries. But you can approach it in different perspectives.

Americans dropped 2 atom bombs in Japan - the reasons behind it are debateable.

Are you saying that the American government had no self-interest in developing Japan and Germany (Please note that I don't deny that they could've partially helped Japan and Germany purely out of good deed.)? You mean that Americans had no economic interests whatsoever in developing Japan and Germany? Or was it because they wanted to stop the communists?

I can stretch this a bit further with Korea. There are so many mysterious stuff that happened during the 5 years between the end of WWII and the Korean War. Theodore Roosevelt in 1905 agreed to give away Korea to Japan. Americans had no interests whatsoever about Korea. Then, all of a sudden, Korea turned into a hot spot. Americans splitted Korea in half with the Soviets. Then, much of the American military withdrew from Korea. WTF? It was as though they begged the communists to attack. Then, when the commies did attack, Americans provided massive support to defend the south Koreans.

Now, before you flame me, I am soooooo damn glad that the Americans supported South Korea. Whether Americans did this out of good deed or self-interest is debatable, in my opinion. >>


If "our intrests" were the only reason for rebuilding Japan & Germany...........why aren't they the 51'st and 52'nd stars on the flag right now????? Most if not all the "Empires" quoted above, kept the land they conquered.................did we???

Korea was defended because of Japan and............you're corect..........COMMUNISM......

 

[joohang]

<< If "our intrests" were the only reason for rebuilding Japan & Germany...........why aren't they the 51'st and 52'nd stars on the flag right now????? Most if not all the "Empires" quoted above, kept the land they conquered.................did we??? >>


Hawaii? Phillippines? (I don't know much about American imperialism, so I'll shut up about these two now.)

Any ways, my point is: Why conquer Germany and Japan? It will only spread bad name to Americans. Instead, build their economy and engage in trade. It will only benefit the American economy. Also, didn't most of the countries engaged in war owe a huge war debt to the US? Did Germany and Japan have to pay reparation (can't remember)? Nonetheless, Americans gain nothing if Japanese and German economies went down the drain. It was smarter to invest and rebuild their economy, IMO. Also, strengthening Germany and Japan was a good defense against the commies. No doubt.

 

[freegeeks]

HAHAHAHAHA I love it. Right into the trap. It just so happens I praised the European drive towards electric cars not too long ago

Damn that was easy



and yesterday you were posting crap like "stinking-euro-cab-drivers" and "the search for a hotel in Europe that was not rat infested"