The religion of peace...

[Vic]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
Geez, you guys are full of fallacies aren't ya?

Well, no matter. I've done my part and if you want to continue the illusion that all if love and peace in the muslim world so be it.

Just don't cry when it's us.

Who said it's "all love and peace" in the Muslim world? We merely assert that a minority of fanatics does not negate the peaceful ways of hundreds of millions of followers of the same religion. Is Catholicism the religion of molestation?

Here's a project for you. Go to a mosque and have a sit down conversation. Say "hi, i have some serious misconceptions about your religion. would you care to talk to me about them?" I'm mostly sure they won't kill you. But bring a friend.

The irony here is that you're more likely to have a pleasant, informed, and intelligent discussion with a Muslim on this kind of topic than with most Christians.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
Geez, you guys are full of fallacies aren't ya?

Well, no matter. I've done my part and if you want to continue the illusion that all if love and peace in the muslim world so be it.

Just don't cry when it's us.

Who said it's "all love and peace" in the Muslim world? We merely assert that a minority of fanatics does not negate the peaceful ways of hundreds of millions of followers of the same religion. Is Catholicism the religion of molestation?

Here's a project for you. Go to a mosque and have a sit down conversation. Say "hi, i have some serious misconceptions about your religion. would you care to talk to me about them?" I'm mostly sure they won't kill you. But bring a friend.

Or is Jehovas Witnesses religion the religion of pedophilia hidden because their courts (yeah, they have their own courts of their elders) tell the children to shut up?

IRA, unless you have forgotte about them was a terrorist organisation that killed more than Muslims did at the time, the LTTE was responsible for the overwhelming majority of the worlds terror attacks before Iraq was invaded and they are mostly Hindus, then we have numerous other organisations and governments like the Serbian Milita that was christian and so on.

There is nothing special about Muslim extremism, a few fundamentalists is all it's about and if it hadn't been for one idiot in charge invading a country that was AGAINST Islamic extremism it wouldn't even be a big issue right now.

This is very wrong.

You're comapring violent radicalism to a radical society.


LOOK AT SAUDI ARABIA. LOOK AT IRAN. LOOK AT SYRIA. LOOK AT EGYPT. LOOK AT INDONESIA.

These are countries dominated by islamic radical law. Citizens are conditioned at day 1 to follow islam in the state-run schools. Media is dominated by Islam.

This IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

And you only have to go back less than a century to find similar religious law-dominated societies in Christian countries. And not even that if you consider the American South.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Survey says you should stop phearing teh Muzlims, and start educating yourself. There are millions of Muslims in our country, and they live by and large in total peace amongst us.

Then cased closed.


Forget the fact that almost every country with a muslim majority revolves around fundamentalism...those western muslims compensate!

Take a gander at Europe, buddy. Take a gander at Asia, buddy.


Muslims, as a whole, are FAR from peaceful. Their society and culture is dominated by racism, intolerance, bigotry, and radicalism.


I don't HATE or FEAR muslims. But the idea that radicals are just a minority is FALSE.

Islamic terrorists are the minority. Sympathizers/Apathetics are the majority. Then you have the various seculars who are scattered throughout the world...

You realize that by definition radical muslims have to be a minority right?

You strike me as someone who has never set foot outside of this country, or at least certainly has never set foot in a country with a Muslim majority. (or on the off chance that you have, gone outside of the tourist area)

Go do that and educate yourself. Trust me, you'll thank me later.

He's 16, he really doesn't know anything about Islam, the world, women, politics or anything, he's going on what he believes to be true, i guess his teacher is a really fucked up human being.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Oh brother I am ridiculous.

^^^ Yes you are.

Let me ask you this :

How many murders are committed annually in our country?

How many of those were committed by Muslims would you say?

Shocking.

Here ya go

http://www.strategypage.com/mi...ryforums/72-17185.aspx

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Witch Trials. The Left Behind series. Will the atrocities never end?

Apparently we should all blame Charles Martel. If he had lost against the invading Muslim hordes there wouldn?t have been a Crusade, or any of that other stuff. We?d also all be speaking Arabic and living in the dark ages. Happy that none of that evil Christian stuff ever came to pass.

 

[Noobtastic]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
Geez, you guys are full of fallacies aren't ya?

Well, no matter. I've done my part and if you want to continue the illusion that all if love and peace in the muslim world so be it.

Just don't cry when it's us.

Who said it's "all love and peace" in the Muslim world? We merely assert that a minority of fanatics does not negate the peaceful ways of hundreds of millions of followers of the same religion. Is Catholicism the religion of molestation?

Here's a project for you. Go to a mosque and have a sit down conversation. Say "hi, i have some serious misconceptions about your religion. would you care to talk to me about them?" I'm mostly sure they won't kill you. But bring a friend.

Or is Jehovas Witnesses religion the religion of pedophilia hidden because their courts (yeah, they have their own courts of their elders) tell the children to shut up?

IRA, unless you have forgotte about them was a terrorist organisation that killed more than Muslims did at the time, the LTTE was responsible for the overwhelming majority of the worlds terror attacks before Iraq was invaded and they are mostly Hindus, then we have numerous other organisations and governments like the Serbian Milita that was christian and so on.

There is nothing special about Muslim extremism, a few fundamentalists is all it's about and if it hadn't been for one idiot in charge invading a country that was AGAINST Islamic extremism it wouldn't even be a big issue right now.

This is very wrong.

You're comapring violent radicalism to a radical society.


LOOK AT SAUDI ARABIA. LOOK AT IRAN. LOOK AT SYRIA. LOOK AT EGYPT. LOOK AT INDONESIA.

These are countries dominated by islamic radical law. Citizens are conditioned at day 1 to follow islam in the state-run schools. Media is dominated by Islam.

This IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

And you only have to go back less than a century to find similar religious law-dominated societies in Christian countries. And not even that if you consider the American South.

Irrelevant.


Look, you guys can rationalize whatever you want. I'm merely stating facts. When you feel ready to approach that muslim theocracies and rationalize that, get back to me!

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Witch Trials. The Left Behind series. Will the atrocities never end?

Apparently we should all blame Charles Martel. If he had lost against the invading Muslim hordes there wouldn?t have been a Crusade, or any of that other stuff. We?d also all be speaking Arabic and living in the dark ages. Happy that none of that evil Christian stuff ever came to pass.

1. The point is no religion can claim purity.
2. You just defended centuries of torture, burning men and women alive, and a horribly boring series of books. Bravo.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Witch Trials. The Left Behind series. Will the atrocities never end?

Apparently we should all blame Charles Martel. If he had lost against the invading Muslim hordes there wouldn?t have been a Crusade, or any of that other stuff. We?d also all be speaking Arabic and living in the dark ages. Happy that none of that evil Christian stuff ever came to pass.

Uh... the Muslims never had the dark ages. That was strictly a Christian nation -only phenomenon. In fact, Europe's dark ages were the golden age of Islamic society. And good thing too, as they preserved and expanded upon the knowledge of the Ancients that otherwise might have been lost.

 

[Noobtastic]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
Geez, you guys are full of fallacies aren't ya?

Well, no matter. I've done my part and if you want to continue the illusion that all if love and peace in the muslim world so be it.

Just don't cry when it's us.

Who said it's "all love and peace" in the Muslim world? We merely assert that a minority of fanatics does not negate the peaceful ways of hundreds of millions of followers of the same religion. Is Catholicism the religion of molestation?

Here's a project for you. Go to a mosque and have a sit down conversation. Say "hi, i have some serious misconceptions about your religion. would you care to talk to me about them?" I'm mostly sure they won't kill you. But bring a friend.

Or is Jehovas Witnesses religion the religion of pedophilia hidden because their courts (yeah, they have their own courts of their elders) tell the children to shut up?

IRA, unless you have forgotte about them was a terrorist organisation that killed more than Muslims did at the time, the LTTE was responsible for the overwhelming majority of the worlds terror attacks before Iraq was invaded and they are mostly Hindus, then we have numerous other organisations and governments like the Serbian Milita that was christian and so on.

There is nothing special about Muslim extremism, a few fundamentalists is all it's about and if it hadn't been for one idiot in charge invading a country that was AGAINST Islamic extremism it wouldn't even be a big issue right now.

This is very wrong.

You're comapring violent radicalism to a radical society.


LOOK AT SAUDI ARABIA. LOOK AT IRAN. LOOK AT SYRIA. LOOK AT EGYPT. LOOK AT INDONESIA.

These are countries dominated by islamic radical law. Citizens are conditioned at day 1 to follow islam in the state-run schools. Media is dominated by Islam.

This IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

And you only have to go back less than a century to find similar religious law-dominated societies in Christian countries. And not even that if you consider the American South.

Irrelevant.


Look, you guys can rationalize whatever you want. I'm merely stating facts. When you feel ready to approach that muslim theocracies and rationalize that, get back to me!

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Irrelevant.


Look, you guys can rationalize whatever you want. I'm merely stating facts. When you feel ready to approach that muslim theocracies and rationalize that, get back to me!

Please enlighten us and list the "facts" that you think you are stating.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
Irrelevant.


Look, you guys can rationalize whatever you want. I'm merely stating facts. When you feel ready to approach that muslim theocracies and rationalize that, get back to me!

It's irrelevant that most of the western world is scarcely more than a few generations out of its own Christian theocracies? How so?

Just look at the legacy of theocracy and religious/cultural intolerance still rampant in America? For example, what is the War on Drugs but a relic of the Protestant ethic?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
Geez, you guys are full of fallacies aren't ya?

Well, no matter. I've done my part and if you want to continue the illusion that all if love and peace in the muslim world so be it.

Just don't cry when it's us.

Who said it's "all love and peace" in the Muslim world? We merely assert that a minority of fanatics does not negate the peaceful ways of hundreds of millions of followers of the same religion. Is Catholicism the religion of molestation?

Here's a project for you. Go to a mosque and have a sit down conversation. Say "hi, i have some serious misconceptions about your religion. would you care to talk to me about them?" I'm mostly sure they won't kill you. But bring a friend.

Or is Jehovas Witnesses religion the religion of pedophilia hidden because their courts (yeah, they have their own courts of their elders) tell the children to shut up?

IRA, unless you have forgotte about them was a terrorist organisation that killed more than Muslims did at the time, the LTTE was responsible for the overwhelming majority of the worlds terror attacks before Iraq was invaded and they are mostly Hindus, then we have numerous other organisations and governments like the Serbian Milita that was christian and so on.

There is nothing special about Muslim extremism, a few fundamentalists is all it's about and if it hadn't been for one idiot in charge invading a country that was AGAINST Islamic extremism it wouldn't even be a big issue right now.

This is very wrong.

You're comapring violent radicalism to a radical society.


LOOK AT SAUDI ARABIA. LOOK AT IRAN. LOOK AT SYRIA. LOOK AT EGYPT. LOOK AT INDONESIA.

These are countries dominated by islamic radical law. Citizens are conditioned at day 1 to follow islam in the state-run schools. Media is dominated by Islam.

This IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

So you are saying that like in Belarus where the people are also opressed Iran, Syria and Indonesia are also countries where people are opressed?

Now NK, China, Belarus, Cuba... these are countries where the population are opressed, none of them are Muslim, how do you explain that? Well, son, it's fairly simple, they are ALL, including the countries you mentioned, ALL, dictatorships....

See it's not that they are Muslim dictatorships, any form of dictatorship means that the people will suffer, are the NK deathcamps not enough to prove that to your sorry arse?

Islam in itself is not radical, i know that it's not because i'm a friend of the people i protect.

I've been to Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan three times now, i'm currently in Afghanistan and you know what we did in Kosovo? Protected Muslims against genocidal Christians, you know what we are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan? Protecting Muslims against fanatic Muslims, you come here and claim that there is no difference between Muslims and fundamentalist Muslims and hope that we can protect you from the crowd.

I'm a Captain in the SAS, currently in Afghanistan, you are a 16 year old POS that dosn't know shit about anything.

Do you think you maybe should shut the fuck up for a second and hear what those who know better has to tell you?

 

[Noobtastic]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
Geez, you guys are full of fallacies aren't ya?

Well, no matter. I've done my part and if you want to continue the illusion that all if love and peace in the muslim world so be it.

Just don't cry when it's us.

Who said it's "all love and peace" in the Muslim world? We merely assert that a minority of fanatics does not negate the peaceful ways of hundreds of millions of followers of the same religion. Is Catholicism the religion of molestation?

Here's a project for you. Go to a mosque and have a sit down conversation. Say "hi, i have some serious misconceptions about your religion. would you care to talk to me about them?" I'm mostly sure they won't kill you. But bring a friend.

Or is Jehovas Witnesses religion the religion of pedophilia hidden because their courts (yeah, they have their own courts of their elders) tell the children to shut up?

IRA, unless you have forgotte about them was a terrorist organisation that killed more than Muslims did at the time, the LTTE was responsible for the overwhelming majority of the worlds terror attacks before Iraq was invaded and they are mostly Hindus, then we have numerous other organisations and governments like the Serbian Milita that was christian and so on.

There is nothing special about Muslim extremism, a few fundamentalists is all it's about and if it hadn't been for one idiot in charge invading a country that was AGAINST Islamic extremism it wouldn't even be a big issue right now.

This is very wrong.

You're comapring violent radicalism to a radical society.


LOOK AT SAUDI ARABIA. LOOK AT IRAN. LOOK AT SYRIA. LOOK AT EGYPT. LOOK AT INDONESIA.

These are countries dominated by islamic radical law. Citizens are conditioned at day 1 to follow islam in the state-run schools. Media is dominated by Islam.

This IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

And you only have to go back less than a century to find similar religious law-dominated societies in Christian countries. And not even that if you consider the American South.

Irrelevant.


Look, you guys can rationalize whatever you want. I'm merely stating facts. When you feel ready to approach that muslim theocracies and rationalize that, get back to me!

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
Irrelevant.


Look, you guys can rationalize whatever you want. I'm merely stating facts. When you feel ready to approach that muslim theocracies and rationalize that, get back to me!

It's irrelevant that most of the western world is scarcely more than a few generations out of its own Christian theocracies? How so?

Just look at the legacy of theocracy and religious/cultural intolerance still rampant in America? For example, what is the War on Drugs but a relic of the Protestant ethic?

Or what the Christians are doing to Muslims in Africa, i mean, killing newborns or their parents isn't exactly what we expect from those with a Christian faith, is it?

It's the environment, leaders, bullshit that creat these fanatics, there is no excuse, religions is no excuse, they are just bad people.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Witch Trials. The Left Behind series. Will the atrocities never end?

Apparently we should all blame Charles Martel. If he had lost against the invading Muslim hordes there wouldn?t have been a Crusade, or any of that other stuff. We?d also all be speaking Arabic and living in the dark ages. Happy that none of that evil Christian stuff ever came to pass.

1. The point is no religion can claim purity.
2. You just defended centuries of torture, burning men and women alive, and a horribly boring series of books. Bravo.

I defend western civilization. No ****.

Your attacks on it are unacceptable, under this allusion that we are still responsible for past crimes that we have since outlawed. It is as if you're incapable of understanding that civilization has evolved past that point.

Is that because you so desperately want to defend Muslim barbarism, by claiming we are still its equal? That is what I feel every time a liberal brings up what we did so long ago, as if you want to excuse modern barbarism.

Originally posted by: Vic
Uh... the Muslims never had the dark ages.

I would say they still live with the savagery and barbarism they held a thousand years ago.

Feel free to disagree.

 

[Robor]

I'm not agreeing with Noob in whole or in part but I do think some Islamic laws are pretty whack. Of course it's not just Islam with whack laws, policies, regulations, etc. Just seems they get the most attention these days.

 

[Noobtastic]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Witch Trials. The Left Behind series. Will the atrocities never end?

Apparently we should all blame Charles Martel. If he had lost against the invading Muslim hordes there wouldn?t have been a Crusade, or any of that other stuff. We?d also all be speaking Arabic and living in the dark ages. Happy that none of that evil Christian stuff ever came to pass.

1. The point is no religion can claim purity.
2. You just defended centuries of torture, burning men and women alive, and a horribly boring series of books. Bravo.

I defend western civilization. No ****.

Your attacks on it are unacceptable, under this allusion that we are still responsible for past crimes that we have since outlawed. It is as if you're incapable of understanding that civilization has evolved past that point.

Is that because you so desperately want to defend Muslim barbarism, by claiming we are still its equal? That is what I feel every time a liberal brings up what we did so long ago, as if you want to excuse modern barbarism.

Originally posted by: Vic
Uh... the Muslims never had the dark ages.

I would say they still live with the savagery and barbarism they held a thousand years ago.

Feel free to disagree.

Finally.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Finally.

Still waiting on your facts, and I would also genuinely like to know if you have visited a majority Muslim country in your life. If so, which one?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Robor
I'm not agreeing with Noob in whole or in part but I do think some Islamic laws are pretty whack. Of course it's not just Islam with whack laws, policies, regulations, etc. Just seems they get the most attention these days.

Of course the Sharia laws are whack, we all know that, i doubt you'd find one member of these forum that would disagree with you on that.

But there is a difference between fundamentalist Muslims like he Taliban (who don't folllow any of the Muslim rules at all, raping and pillaging is strictly against Islamic law, still they do it, every day of every week of every month of every year) and the Muslims who want to practice their faith in peace and that is all they want.

So should we fight for those who are peaceul or should we do what Noobtastic suggests and send them to the ovens?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I want a response to my post, i bet if you and Jaskalas put your minds to it you could at leat come up with a stupid response.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: babylon5
Religion = mass fantasy for weak minded people.

Religion isn't the problem...

Pretty sure that's false.

Edit: Okay, to be fair, it's a combination of religious fundamentalism and poverty.

Everyone has a religion.

ABSOLUTELY sure that's false.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Survey says you should stop phearing teh Muzlims, and start educating yourself. There are millions of Muslims in our country, and they live by and large in total peace amongst us.

Then cased closed.


Forget the fact that almost every country with a muslim majority revolves around fundamentalism...those western muslims compensate!

Take a gander at Europe, buddy. Take a gander at Asia, buddy.


Muslims, as a whole, are FAR from peaceful. Their society and culture is dominated by racism, intolerance, bigotry, and radicalism.


I don't HATE or FEAR muslims. But the idea that radicals are just a minority is FALSE.

Islamic terrorists are the minority. Sympathizers/Apathetics are the majority. Then you have the various seculars who are scattered throughout the world...

Why do you side with the Muslim extremists in their corrupt interpretation of what it means to be Muslim? The Muslim extremists are a tiny but vocal and active minority within the huge Muslim population of the world. They are dangerous and should be opposed, but the best way to do that is by working with the rational, peace-loving majority of Muslims around the world. When you claim that Islam is inherently all the things the extremsits say it is, you're playing right into their hands. Why would you do that?

Many American Muslims want to see their religion become more tolerant. Why would you work against them by claiming the extremist are correct and that their religion doesn't actually allow that? You seem strangely eager to agree with the extremists and their dangerous interpretation.

For some reason you've decided to agree with the freaks of Islam and claim it is supposed to be interpreted the way they want. Since there are so many Muslims in the world, and they're not going away, the best thing we westerners can do is encourage the more tolerant interpretation. Every time you come here and claim Islam is a violent, intolerant religion, you play right into the extremists hands. Why do you hate America?

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Or what the Christians are doing to Muslims in Africa, i mean, killing newborns or their parents isn't exactly what we expect from those with a Christian faith, is it?

Finally, someone honest enough not to bring up what we did over the past millennium. I applaud your use of something substantive. Yet, we wouldn?t call Africa the shining example of civilization. I do not support, condone, or endorse what they did in your example.

Yet I see a key point to note, coming from your example. Islam is still involved with those conflicts, as one side of the bloodshed. So then we can clearly say both sides are doing that?

It takes strength to fight morally, and it is clear that Africa has no strength. Warfare is waged by whatever means available. The complete eradication of Christians or Muslims there does not reflect on the western world.

So then I arrive at your point. That it is based on other factors, such as local problems. Yet that is not why this cancerous infection is spreading among the western world. A few tribal savages are not the reason for the attacks on New York, Madrid, or London. This cancerous infection has a global host that is fostering it. That is harboring it, and that is spreading it to our land. No matter how much you want to say Christianity is behind it, Islamic Supremacism is the unique and defining trait of a long list of systemic attacks against western civilization on our own soil.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
Look at Iran. Look at Saudi Arabia. Look at UAE. Look at Syria. Look at Egypt. Look at Indonesia. Look at Palastine.


These countries account for the majority of muslims, and they are all possess state-sanctioned islamic law.

You forgot to mention the fact that our support of [some of] these governments is part of the reason citizens of those countries hold such animosity towards us. For example, we pour tons of money into Saudi Arabia and are openly friendly towards their government (because of oil). The Saudi government is MUCH less popular among Saudi Arabia's citizens and our support of it just further alienates us from much of the Muslim population in the middle east.

Also, you are dead wrong about Indonesia. Indonesia has more muslims than all of those other countries combined and does not have "state-sanctioned islamic law." A significant majority of Muslims do not live in states ruled by islamic law.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Robor
I'm not agreeing with Noob in whole or in part but I do think some Islamic laws are pretty whack. Of course it's not just Islam with whack laws, policies, regulations, etc. Just seems they get the most attention these days.

Of course the Sharia laws are whack, we all know that, i doubt you'd find one member of these forum that would disagree with you on that.

But there is a difference between fundamentalist Muslims like he Taliban (who don't folllow any of the Muslim rules at all, raping and pillaging is strictly against Islamic law, still they do it, every day of every week of every month of every year) and the Muslims who want to practice their faith in peace and that is all they want.

So should we fight for those who are peaceul or should we do what Noobtastic suggests and send them to the ovens?

Obviously we should work with the moderates and hopefully someday 'the west' will not be seen as the enemy. As was said earlier in this thread... We can't force our will on 1.5 billion people. We - and they - need to learn to live together.