The Pharmaceutical Companies are Evil

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MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
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If your doctor is over prescribing you need to switch doctors. Information about medications, their uses and their side effects have never been more available to consumers yet people are still blaming everyone else. If you question why you need a medicine look it up! It's your health, take charge and figure out if what they're telling you makes sense.

That's why I included patients in the list of culpable parties.

I just feel that the doctors bear the largest moral responsibility as protector of their patients.

"First, do no harm."
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
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You're missing my whole point.

The doctors who are bad are the individuals who are overperscribing or misprescribing. It doesn't matter what field of medicine they practice, they have a moral obligation to their patients and are failing them.

Also, lets not act like this only happens in psychiatry...

misprescribing is an unavoidable problem that happens from human error. Doctors aren't perfect.

Yes, Over prescribing is an issue in whatever field it occurs in, however, my point is that it is a rare thing in the most fields of medicine. So treating it like this huge issue that covers all medicine is simply overstating the problem.

It is easy to see which field is the worst offender when it comes to over prescription, just look at which drugs are most commonly over prescribed. Overwhelmingly, it is psychopharmacological drugs such as anti-depressants.
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
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misprescribing is an unavoidable problem that happens from human error. Doctors aren't perfect.

Yes, Over prescribing is an issue in whatever field it occurs in, however, my point is that it is a rare thing in the most fields of medicine. So treating it like this huge issue that covers all medicine is simply overstating the problem.

It is easy to see which field is the worst offender when it comes to over prescription, just look at which drugs are most commonly over prescribed. Overwhelmingly, it is psychopharmacological drugs such as anti-depressants.

You seem to be forgetting that I'm talking about individuals and their obligations.

Field of practice is irrelevant to my argument. I never brought it up, you did...
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
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You seem to be forgetting that I'm talking about individuals and their obligations.

Field of practice is irrelevant to my argument. I never brought it up, you did...

The way you treat it, though, makes it sound like you are trying to blame everyone with an MD. I'm simply point out that the concentration of individuals who over prescribe vary by field of practice.

There is less an issue of over prescription in just about any medical field besides psychiatry. And that is simply because any other field has more quantifiable symptoms that they base their prescriptions off of. Saying that this is a huge issue for all MDs is disingenuous.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
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I never said that...

You're reading far too much into my comments, and I've had too many beers to care about arguing semantics...

Perhaps I am. I guess, as I see it, this is more an issue for a specific field of practice, and less a problem with MDs in general. And that is more of what I would like to discuss.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
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Most illnesses we get are treatable with chemicals, and most good doctors advocate a healthy life style. People are, however, lazy. They would rather have a big mac now and a heart attack later. They know the risks, but take them anyways.

no, the most common illnesses we get are not effectively treatable by chemicals... however, they are treatable by chemicals. there's a big difference. whenever you need a pill for a certain illness and then various pills for the side effects of each subsequent pill, that's not healthy. yet, that's what happens all the time in america and it's wrong.

there's not enough pressure to move towards healthy lifestyles, probably because there's too much money to be made in keeping people sick, fat, and stupid.

i don't know the answers, but the problems are obvious as hell.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
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If your doctor is over prescribing you need to switch doctors. Information about medications, their uses and their side effects have never been more available to consumers yet people are still blaming everyone else. If you question why you need a medicine look it up! It's your health, take charge and figure out if what they're telling you makes sense.

the average stupid-ass american (aka a majority) don't know that over-prescribing is bad and, even if they did, they wouldn't know when over-prescribing WAS over-prescribing.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
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no, the most common illnesses we get are not effectively treatable by chemicals... however, they are treatable by chemicals. there's a big difference. whenever you need a pill for a certain illness and then various pills for the side effects of each subsequent pill, that's not healthy. yet, that's what happens all the time in america and it's wrong.

there's not enough pressure to move towards healthy lifestyles, probably because there's too much money to be made in keeping people sick, fat, and stupid.

i don't know the answers, but the problems are obvious as hell.
Didn't I say "treatable by chemicals." I never used the word "effectively" as they aren't all effectively treated. Some are, but not all.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves here. People are fat and unhealthy because they choose to be (they don't choose to be stupid so much). All the agendas in the world won't change mans love for laziness and greasy food.

It is true that if everyone lived a healthy lifestyle, many drugs and medications would see far less of a market share. However, it is the publics responsibility to live a healthy lifestyle, not the pharmaceutical industry. They have no reason to push people to live a healthy lifestyle.

Health insurance agencies, on the other hand, do. I'm surprised they don't put out more "healthy living" commercials.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
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Lets not get ahead of ourselves here. People are fat and unhealthy because they choose to be (they don't choose to be stupid so much). All the agendas in the world won't change mans love for laziness and greasy food.

It is true that if everyone lived a healthy lifestyle, many drugs and medications would see far less of a market share. However, it is the publics responsibility to live a healthy lifestyle, not the pharmaceutical industry. They have no reason to push people to live a healthy lifestyle.

Health insurance agencies, on the other hand, do. I'm surprised they don't put out more "healthy living" commercials.

when 9 out of 10 of the choices you're given (based on the average hours people work and the average income people have) are unhealthy, the choice is kinda taken out of your hands. hfcs is a big culprit to the problem as well. it's hard for the average family to find cheap recipes for meals that are healthy, easy to make, and don't have hfcs.

and, yes, agendas can change that. it's happened in local experiments across the country... they just need to try and do statewide experiments, then region-wide experiments, then implement it nationally if it's worked each time prior.

i know the pharmaceutical companies aren't going to push the public to be healthy and neither are most doctors, regardless of the specialty. i know that most chiropractors preach health all the time... do they take the time to talk to their patients about it and really engage in their patients' wellbeing? no. they don't have time because they have too many other patients to worry about. that's just how it is and it's wrong.

i take the time to consult with my patients about how important dieting and exercise is. i even took the time out of my weekend to send a diet plan for one of my patients about his piss-poor health (overweight, red face, eats bbq daily, drinks 4 beers per day and a few vodka drinks per day... told me his doctor gave him a clean bill of health... "fit as a horse, as they say" is what he said). he was surprised that his primary care NEVER told him about his diet or dangers of it or anything. she just simply took some vitals, listened to things, and that was it.

it's frustrating because when you earn the title "doctor," you are sworn to always put the patient first to the best of your ability. simply putting someone with high cholesterol on lipitor is not the way to go about it just because it's easier. on the chiropractic side of things, simply adjusting someone's spine and sending them out the door is not the way to go about things either... that's just absurd. might as well slap them on the back, say good luck with that whole type 2 diabetes thing, and that you'll pray for them.

the bar has to be raised across the spectrum of anyone who treats patients, no matter the field.

edit: you know why insurance companies don't want to worry about people being healthier? because they'll make less money.
 
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lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
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Modern survival of the fittest? :p

Honestly, you should always ask your doctor every question you can think of about any prescribed medication, then research it online, then call and ask any more questions you thought of. Every drug out there has its' own separate website, with exacting information about when it should be used and what the side effects are. At the end of the day, you are in charge of your own health and selecting your doctor and you should be thorough about how you handle both tasks.

I've voluntarily switched off a drug and onto another one to treat my rheumatoid arthritis because I had a planned change in lifestyle and I was familiar with the side effects of drug A and knew I didn't want the potential side effects. Likewise, I've gone through several rheumatologists to find one I felt was well-educated, up to date on her knowledge and had a patients-first approach.
You're doing it wrong.
You should be visiting a chiropractor who would crack your bones/joints for you which would completely cure your arthritis problems rather than taking medications which only treat the symptoms.
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
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no, the most common illnesses we get are not effectively treatable by chemicals... however, they are treatable by chemicals. there's a big difference. whenever you need a pill for a certain illness and then various pills for the side effects of each subsequent pill, that's not healthy. yet, that's what happens all the time in america and it's wrong.

there's not enough pressure to move towards healthy lifestyles, probably because there's too much money to be made in keeping people sick, fat, and stupid.

i don't know the answers, but the problems are obvious as hell.
So the pharmaceutical companies are responsible for keeping people sick? fat? and stupid?
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
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Here's one truth about the drug industry that no one wants to admit! The drug industry is not in the business of curing people, it's in the business of selling drugs, plain and simple! Cure them, then there are no drugs to sell!

You only need drugs if you're dying or you have a very terminal/serious condition, but for more then half the population if they knew how to take care of themselves they wouldn't need drugs.

Most people seem to think drugs are the answer, they're not, they just a part of it. Prevention is something the American people know little about!

The biggest lie is that drugs have increased life, actually if most people didn't ingest half the crap they ate, they would never need drugs.

All the chemicals people ingest is what's killing life and causing problems, then the belief they need drugs to fix the problems.

Anyhow the people to stupid and evil that want you to believe you need drugs will continue.

Now I'm not saying there isn't a place for drug need or usage, I'm saying it's way overblown!

PEACE
Who manufactures vaccines?
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
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Personally, I think that all three groups are culpable: pharm. co's, MD's and patients.

The MD's are the biggest problem, though. They should be looking out for the best interests of their patients and protecting them from the pharm co's.
False.
Patients are the biggest problem.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
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So the pharmaceutical companies are responsible for keeping people sick? fat? and stupid?

sick and fat? yeah, i'd say so. because of the flood of medications in the market place, people think that there's a pill for everything and they can keep doing what they want and stay healthy when all they're doing is getting more unhealthy.

americans are soooo symptom-based in their view of their own healthy it's ridiculous. i was talking to someone the other day about his jacked up posture and how he should get it checked out. i told him that i could give him a consultation, full exam, x-rays, and a diagnosis with recommendations for a huge discount and he wouldn't even be obligated to be my patient (i like doing this to get my name out there one way or the other and, hopefully, get a few patients out of it). you know what he said? "no thanks... i don't feel any pain in my back or anything, so i'm healthy." i almost fell over. i guess that means i should call my dad and tell him that if he doesn't feel any symptoms, he shouldn't go and get his prostate checked.

absence of symptoms != absence of pathology

whatever... now i feel like i'm just rambling and going off on tangents... it's late. i'm tired. i'm going to bed.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
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False.
Patients are the biggest problem.

bullshit. patients don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. they rely on doctors to give recommendations and to put their well-being first. if doctors are worried about kickbacks and, consequently, prescribe drug x for patient 1's symptoms, the patient is NOT the problem.

go to any medical doctor and ask them what percent of their patients have any idea what the hell a cox-2 inhibitor does and what risks it has. they would probably tell you that the percent of patients who know would be in the single digits.

it's not up to the patient to stay on top of medicines that are hard to pronounce and full of power letters... they have lives to live, jobs to work, families to feed, and bills to pay. they expect that when they come into a doctor's office and ask "what's wrong with me doc?" that the doctor can tell them what's wrong and how it can be fixed. that last part is almost always left out... they go straight to the prescription pad or the sample packs. most doctors (regardless of the field) don't even waste their time giving the benefits, risks, and alternatives anymore.
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
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vaccines don't cure. antidotes can cure, but vaccines can't. not all vaccines last forever. not only that, vaccines are made to prevent... not cure.
Prevention > Cure > treating the symptoms.

Why would the evil pharmaceutical companies invent vaccines that prevent you from getting Hepatitis B, Tetanus, Polio, Yellow Fever, Pneumonia, Meningitis, Small Pox, Varicella, Zoster, Measles, Mumps, and Rubella when they can have you hooked on medications which would only treat the symptoms of the disease?

Why would they invent a Hepatitis B vaccine which would allow a normal person to have both anal/vaginal sex with multiple HBV+ partners without fear of getting the disease?
 
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eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
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Prevention > Cure > treating the symptoms.

Why would the evil pharmaceutical companies invent vaccines that prevent you from getting Hepatitis B, Tetanus, Polio, Yellow Fever, Pneumonia, Meningitis, Small Pox, Varicella, Zoster, Measles, Mumps, and Rubella when they can have you hooked on medications which would only treat the symptoms of the disease?

Why would they invent a Hepatitis B vaccine which would allow a normal person to have both anal/vaginal sex with multiple HBV+ partners without fear of getting the disease?

... you've got to be joking.

maybe you didn't read the full thread, but it's already been established that the drug companies do good things, too. that doesn't get them off the hook for all the evil, corrupt shit they do and all the useless drugs they make and market to the american people.

money isn't in vaccines anyway (unless it's the flu shot, since it's given yearly). the money is in the drugs that the commercials tell people they need to ask their doctors about. the money's in the drugs that people need to take for the rest of their lives.
 

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
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LOL you're kidding, right?

Educate yourself... go ahead and Google and come back showing me how chiropractic care causes more deaths or injuries that pharmaceutical drugs. Hell, taking NSAIDs have a higher risk of dangerous side effect than chiropractic care

... but above all else, stay on topic. This is a thread about bullshit tactics of the pharmaceutical industry doesthat puts people at serious health risks in order to make a profit and how they rarely go unchecked.

So you are comfortable with the fact that chiropractors are involved with deaths?
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
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Meh, chiros are a scab on health care, how many are teamed up with ambulance chasers eits?

How many chiros encourage patients to go off from drugs that enhance their lives?

How many chiros sell homeopathic shit that actually injure people?

How many chiros take advantage of the elderly, infirm and ignorant by booking multiple visits for therapy that's unnecessary or can actually screw up joints?

My recent favorite is animal chiro, there's a fucking joke...

"Let me adjust your horse..."

I'm all in favor of lifestyle changes and things that reduce the need for drugs, but I'm not on board with one pretty damn sleasy branch of medicine pointing fingers while they live in a glass house.

I'm certainly not a fan of big pharma either, but ethically I don't think they hold a candle to many scamming chiropractors.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
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I'm certainly not a fan of big pharma either, but ethically I don't think they hold a candle to many scamming chiropractors.

At least with big pharma you can do your homework and pick a good doctor that will help you figure out what you really need. A chiropractor will do their absolute best to try and convince you that your doctor doesn't have a clue what they're talking about so that you'll pay for chiropractic therapy that your doctor doesn't agree with.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
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So you are comfortable with the fact that chiropractors are involved with deaths?

do i have any control over whether someone less trained and less skilled adjusts someone improperly?

this thread is about pharmaceuticals... let's keep it that way. if you want to talk about it in pm, i'd be glad to discuss it. otherwise, you're just trying to be a douchebag and completely ignorant.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
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Meh, chiros are a scab on health care, how many are teamed up with ambulance chasers eits?

How many chiros encourage patients to go off from drugs that enhance their lives?

How many chiros sell homeopathic shit that actually injure people?

How many chiros take advantage of the elderly, infirm and ignorant by booking multiple visits for therapy that's unnecessary or can actually screw up joints?

My recent favorite is animal chiro, there's a fucking joke...

"Let me adjust your horse..."

I'm all in favor of lifestyle changes and things that reduce the need for drugs, but I'm not on board with one pretty damn sleasy branch of medicine pointing fingers while they live in a glass house.

I'm certainly not a fan of big pharma either, but ethically I don't think they hold a candle to many scamming chiropractors.

then i'm sorry to hear about your level of ignorance.

please stay on topic. chiropractic care is not the topic, big pharma is.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
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At least with big pharma you can do your homework and pick a good doctor that will help you figure out what you really need. A chiropractor will do their absolute best to try and convince you that your doctor doesn't have a clue what they're talking about so that you'll pay for chiropractic therapy that your doctor doesn't agree with.

lol what? you have no idea what you're talking about.

this post also goes to show you just how much people trust their medical doctors... if people will trust their medical doctors about things they don't know much about, like certain alternative forms of healthcare, then what makes you think that they would distrust them when they write them a prescription?
 
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