The OFFICIAL Anandtech Forums TeS V: Skyrim Thread

[zinfamous]

Er... two handed generally refers to two handed weapons, not dual wielding, which is generally called, well, dual wielding.

I just started another character that should be a bit of fun. Orc necromancer with two handed weapons and heavy armor. Won't really be using any spells other than the Raise Dead variants, and probably Magelight (my various graphics tweaks have created a real need for it in darker areas - which is both slightly annoying and much more immersive). I'll probably be roleplaying him into a slow decent into insanity to spice things up a bit.

d'oh, totally misread that. I had dual-wield in my head.

yes--stamina matters for two-handed.

I think inability to block with dual wielding would place more importance on health, considering you get significant damage output with regular attacks.

 

[zinfamous]

He isnt at the bar anymore. The rest of that quest is all about figuring out what you did while blacked out and finding him. Just go back to the hall where you had to clean up and look at the quest markers to find the stuff you needed to clean up, or try to bribe her. Although if you are already at level 40 then the staff may not be so useful. I really dont use mine anymore, but it was really useful in the lower levels!

no, see, the problem is that the quest is bugged--so I keep restarting it. I've started it 5 times now. So it is, officially, unstarted, because I can never get anywhere after starting it. I F9 a lot with this game.

without even initiating the quest and waking up in Markath, he is now no longer in Whiterun.

 

[zinfamous]

Also, assuming you dont cheat, you need stamina to hold more weight, which is a requirement as the game goes on.

cheating schmeating. bite me.

😛

 

[Locut0s]

Did you start the game recently Zin or find this thread recently? Sounds like you are having fun 😀 Are you normally an RPG fan?

 

[zinfamous]

Did you start the game recently Zin or find this thread recently? Sounds like you are having fun 😀 Are you normally an RPG fan?

I started it on ~27or so when i returned home from christmas. Had some days off work, so I have done very little else. I think a lot of the regulars now are people that purchased this during the steam sale.

I did post a few times in this thread early on, or at least in the Skyrim thread started before this one. I don't remember. It's an awesome game.

I grew up with RPG, but found, later in life, that TES games pissed me off. Simply too much to do--in a way, too much choice is too restricting for certain personality types.

Also, If I can yell and blow people to bits and fight off dragons, I can carry whatever the fuck I want. What realism?

😛

 

[Markbnj]

I have to laugh at some of the voice acting. I've met two Daedra princes so far, and... don't want to spoil it for anybody but let's say I feel like I'm watching David Copperfield or something. And I just met a dog who is apparently from Brooklyn. The annoying little bastard dragged me into a quest and now he keeps physically shoving me down the road.

 

[zinfamous]

I have to laugh at some of the voice acting. I've met two Daedra princes so far, and... don't want to spoil it for anybody but let's say I feel like I'm watching David Copperfield or something. And I just met a dog who is apparently from Brooklyn. The annoying little bastard dragged me into a quest and now he keeps physically shoving me down the road.

yeah, that dog bugged out when I was randomly attacked by an atronach, though he was probably partly responsible for it. Cant' find him anymore, but I suppose he's now waiting at whatever cairn we were supposed to go to.

Funny thing: on that exact same path, I was attacked by the dragon in that area, and while bashing its skull in, dude runs up to me and slips me something to hold onto....

wtf. The timing with these little random events really needs to be fixed, lol. I assumed that everything was going to bug out at that point, but no problem.

It's odd, though. Here I am, fighting this big ass dragon in the road, and some thief runs up to me and gives me a helmet and takes off, as if nothing is going on. Then, after dragon is dead, shirtless dude runs out looking for the theif.

 

[Locut0s]

yeah, that dog bugged out when I was randomly attacked by an atronach, though he was probably partly responsible for it. Cant' find him anymore, but I suppose he's now waiting at whatever cairn we were supposed to go to.

Funny thing: on that exact same path, I was attacked by the dragon in that area, and while bashing its skull in, dude runs up to me and slips me something to hold onto....

wtf. The timing with these little random events really needs to be fixed, lol. I assumed that everything was going to bug out at that point, but no problem.

It's odd, though. Here I am, fighting this big ass dragon in the road, and some thief runs up to me and gives me a helmet and takes off, as if nothing is going on. Then, after dragon is dead, shirtless dude runs out looking for the theif.

In terms of the programming it would be very hard to take into account all the different variables to make the game more realistic. There are certainly some things they could do but you would always run into some lol worthy situation at some point. It's already a nice step up from Oblivion though.

 

[zinfamous]

In terms of the programming it would be very hard to take into account all the different variables to make the game more realistic. There are certainly some things they could do but you would always run into some lol worthy situation at some point. It's already a nice step up from Oblivion though.

well, that's good to know. I've only now been tempted to pick up Oblivion and give it a whirl--as I know there are those that seriously dug it next to many who loathe it.

I'm not so tempted now--I really do want to play a Skyrim primary mage at some point. I don't yet feel burned out after 100 hours and barely nipping the main quest so..who knows. maybe there is hope.

 

[Mem]

Weapons are also highly dependent on smithing. Smithing is actually designed by some retard, because the way it works is just ridiculous.

take 1H swords. Base 1H sword damage is
13 - elven
14 - glass
15 - Ebony
16 - Daedric

So Daedric weapons do 3 more damage than Elven, or 23% more damage... Cool, that's a good chunk more powerful. All skills and perks scale a % based on this, so Daedric will always be 23% higher damage than Elven.

But Smithing adds to the base damage... an equal amount to any item type. 100 smithing (actually 91, you don't get another +1 until over 100) with a perk in the skill for the weapon adds +10 base damage, now 1H smithed swords are:

23 - elven
24 - glass
25 - ebony
26 - daedric

Now daedric is only 13% more powerful than Elven and less than 7% better than glass. The advantage of daedric is half.

Wear smithing enchants and use a store bought potion to increase your smithing and you cut the advantage of daedric in half again and the difference between glass and Daedric becomes pretty small for 4 perk points. If you could "reach over the top" from dragonscale to daedric it might make more sense.

So you don't really need the right hand side smithing perks for weapons. You really only need to go as far as elven for light armor and heavy you can choose to go to steel plate or to Orcish (steel is doable, but you want to go to elven anyway for weapons). It works out that perks in alchemy or enchanting to make better + smithing items are more valueable for smithing than every perk in smithing past the 2nd because elven is so high up the scale on damage for only 2 perk points.

Like I said, the design is nonsensical, but that's how it is.

Some of the ebony weapons are just as powerful as daedric weapons ,I crafted an ebony mace that had same stats as daedric mace but lighter in weight,throw on two enchants and you have one awesome weapon.

As to stamina its not that important for mages.

I have some gear that has weight enchant mods and can carry round 415 weight which is quite a lot for my light armour I wear,besides my 4 houses has loads of loot and to be honest I can craft better gear most times then what I find so very choosy on what I bring back home,money is never an issue once you go over 100k and I've lost count on how many diamonds,sapphires,rubies etc I've looted plus not to mention all the ebony/daedric gear stored in my houses since day one.

 

[s1njin]

I just got my strategy guide in from Amazon yesterday. Holy cow this game is deep !!! I'm the type that will peruse the guide before starting, so as to get a good grounding (not the quests, but the other info).

Need to finish Mass Effect 2 - than I'm going to Skyrim. Who knows maybe the'll even patch it again. I put some of the more popular mods on it already - tweaking things is fun.

 

[thespyder]

Yeah I'm trying to explore on the way, little did I realize my exploration led me on the way of the main quest as well 😉

As for skilling up, I'm going to probably pick 5 primary skills and stick to that (2H, Heavy Armor, BS, Enchanting and the last probably Destro). I just don't want to 'muddle' my character as you say which is why I didn't even put any points into perks yet.

By the way, is there a console command to reset levels or perk points?

For what it is worth, from my experience going either/or 2H weapons OR Destruction would be better. My 2H Orc fairly destroys any enemy he encounters. Much in the same way my Wizard does with ranged destruction spells. Neither one is particularly better or worse at it. And in order to maintain Destruction you really need to focus on feats and Magicka (and Magicka restoration). You would do much better focusing on 2H and maybe Alteration or Conjuration. both schools give you stuff that 2H don't already give you (big damage) and aren't quite as Magicka heavy in their execution. Or go the other direction and go destruction and back off on the 2H. But going both, you are spending double the perks to get the exact same thing. and you end up weaker HP wise into the bargin. Just my two cents.

I avoided reading any walkthroughs or spoilers until I had the game in hand and had been playing awhile. So early on I didn't really know what the "main" quest was. I just wander the world and take what comes. On the dragon quest I hit up the greybeards pretty early and retrieved the horn for them. Then there was a long pause before I eventually did the stuff in Riften mostly because something else took me there. I'm level 17 now and on another break while some folks wait for me at Sky Temple 🙂.

Even without the walkthroughs, it is pretty easy to identify what the "Main Quest" is by looking at your quest log. Once you get to whiterun it is pretty easy to avoid "Main quest" related tasks, should you want. Personally, my Wizard went straight from there to Winterhold. He dug into the Academy quests and has been going strong on them through level 27 with narry a thought towards going back to the main quest.

 

[zokudu]

no, see, the problem is that the quest is bugged--so I keep restarting it. I've started it 5 times now. So it is, officially, unstarted, because I can never get anywhere after starting it. I F9 a lot with this game.

without even initiating the quest and waking up in Markath, he is now no longer in Whiterun.

He is not always in Whiterun he shows up at random inns around the world. I started that quest at the Winking Skeever in Solitude. If he is not in Whiterun the quest may not be bugged and he may be in another inn.

 

[zinfamous]

He is not always in Whiterun he shows up at random inns around the world. I started that quest at the Winking Skeever in Solitude. If he is not in Whiterun the quest may not be bugged and he may be in another inn.

I see. Well, he reappeared in Whiterun, so I started again. This time, I was able to persuade the priestess to give me the info. I still have the "clean up the temple" part of the quest--doesn't say "optional." all of the pieces were there this time (the note is usually missing), and she won't accept that it is cleaned (it tells me to talk to her).

Anyway, it doesn't CTD when I exit the temple, so I figure I'm good. :\

Only 7 attempts! 😀

 

[zinfamous]

For what it is worth, from my experience going either/or 2H weapons OR Destruction would be better. My 2H Orc fairly destroys any enemy he encounters. Much in the same way my Wizard does with ranged destruction spells. Neither one is particularly better or worse at it. And in order to maintain Destruction you really need to focus on feats and Magicka (and Magicka restoration). You would do much better focusing on 2H and maybe Alteration or Conjuration. both schools give you stuff that 2H don't already give you (big damage) and aren't quite as Magicka heavy in their execution. Or go the other direction and go destruction and back off on the 2H. But going both, you are spending double the perks to get the exact same thing. and you end up weaker HP wise into the bargin. Just my two cents.

I imagine that you could go destruction + Dual wield pretty easily, since DW requires so few perks. It would be best to select one type of weapon, though, because to really max out the damage you would want those 3perk categories for axe, sword, or mace.

Unless it's easy enough to kill stuff before they can close in on you, I can see some use for an effective mele mage when necessary. Problem with DW, though, is the Q menu is broken when going from spell to offhand equipment, so you can't easily hotkey it. you always have to go into the Q menu and fix your offhand.

 

[thespyder]

I imagine that you could go destruction + Dual wield pretty easily, since DW requires so few perks. It would be best to select one type of weapon, though, because to really max out the damage you would want those 3perk categories for axe, sword, or mace.

Unless it's easy enough to kill stuff before they can close in on you, I can see some use for an effective mele mage when necessary. Problem with DW, though, is the Q menu is broken when going from spell to offhand equipment, so you can't easily hotkey it. you always have to go into the Q menu and fix your offhand.

Absolutely either could be done. Just saying that the main reason to go Destruction is for Damage. if you already have another way to do that (i.e. 2H, Bow, DW), or vice versa, why would you want to double up? Particularly since, as stated Blasting with Destruction is dependant on having a decent amount of Magicka and Magicka regeneration (i.e. points you can no longer put into health and armor that could be enchanted otherwise to better effect). just seems like a recipe for muddled character syndrome to me.

Better (IMHO) to do Alteration for the armor bonus or conjuration for either the buddy assist or the weapon summons. But again, it can all be done.

As instance, my Wizard started out with a Bow to suppliment his damage when he had low magicka. After a short period of time, I totally abandoned the bow because it was unnecessary.

 

[Red Storm]

I just can't bring myself to use duel wield until a mod comes around that fixes the broken implementation. Not being able to block/parry (and take advantage of block perks) is stupid.

 

[zinfamous]

I just can't bring myself to use duel wield until a mod comes around that fixes the broken implementation. Not being able to block/parry (and take advantage of block perks) is stupid.

Eh, I don't think that is going to change. It's a fundamental characteristic of choosing dual wielding, as stated repeatedly throughout the game. You get high damage, but suffer the blocking penalty.

Being able to kill faster *should* negate much of the need for blocking, assuming you're doing it right. :\ Though I do agree that some sort of parry/counterattack perk would be a nice complement. That would make it damn awesome, and not too OP, with only one perk. It doesn't really make sense that you can't use one or both of those weapons to block, but whatever. I have several issues with their two-handed scheme in the game.

I wanted to go dual wielding, too, but realized early on that there are far, far too many advantages for a shield in mele combat. You can block with 2H, if that strikes your fancy, but I'm not sure if you get the stun bonuses like you do with a shield. Well, you probably do, as I've noticed that I can stun some people with bow blocking. Or, at least, I am able to block with it. Not sure about actual stun.

 

[Red Storm]

Eh, I don't think that is going to change. It's a fundamental characteristic of choosing dual wielding, as stated repeatedly throughout the game. You get high damage, but suffer the blocking penalty.

Being able to kill faster *should* negate much of the need for blocking, assuming you're doing it right. :\ Though I do agree that some sort of parry/counterattack perk would be a nice complement. That would make it damn awesome, and not too OP, with only one perk. It doesn't really make sense that you can't use one or both of those weapons to block, but whatever. I have several issues with their two-handed scheme in the game.

I wanted to go dual wielding, too, but realized early on that there are far, far too many advantages for a shield in mele combat. You can block with 2H, if that strikes your fancy, but I'm not sure if you get the stun bonuses like you do with a shield. Well, you probably do, as I've noticed that I can stun some people with bow blocking. Or, at least, I am able to block with it. Not sure about actual stun.

Does it actually do more damage though? From what I can see, you still attack as fast as you would with 1 weapon. I personally pick my fighting/weapon style based on what I like and who I imagine that character is, it has absolutely nothing to do with the actual stats (the same applies to what armor/clothing and weapons I use).

Obviously I don't expect Bethesda to change anything. I know there will be mods for it, just gotta be patient.

 

[zinfamous]

Does it actually do more damage though? From what I can see, you still attack as fast as you would with 1 weapon. I personally pick my fighting/weapon style based on what I like and who I imagine that character is, it has absolutely nothing to do with the actual stats (the same applies to what armor/clothing and weapons I use).

Obviously I don't expect Bethesda to change anything. I know there will be mods for it, just gotta be patient.

depends on the weapon you choose. Standard mantra is to always, always use a dagger in the offhand, as the dual attack speed (RH & LH together) is dependent on the speed of the offhand weapon. now, you can further increase overall attack speed with two daggers. focusing on higher criticals in the one-handed sword tree (I assume this works for daggers?) would greatly improve damage on top of attack speed. Also, there is a shout that greatly increases attack speed, but it has a woeful cooldown time in my experience.

I've personally always been a fan of higher criticals when it comes to mele characters, so I try to focus on that whenever possible. There are weapon "enchants" that do this, but from what I can tell, you can't actually learn them and apply them yourself. Very very sad. Though the one that I have obtained ("+25% critical" on a dagger given to me by an NPC after completing a quest in Falkreath) would probably be way, way OP if you could stick that on two ebony daggers. it would be nasty, though.

Though, as always, I'm sure there's a mod for that. 😉

I like the armor ignoring damage with maces, too, but I don't like how slow they are.


EDIT: I think I misspoke earlier about stamina for DW characters. I believe the dual attack is stamina dependent, and is basically the main reason for going dual wielding. You still get more damage with overall normal attacks (potential of two weapons with up to two enchants, each), but those dual attacks are also much stronger than the other mele power attacks. You get some rather awesome decapitation animations when going DW, as well. 😉

about that decapitation perk--I'm glad that it's actually useful. usually (In Fallout games) that type of perk does nothing but add a fancy animation. This one gives a percent chance that you will have an instant kill. Pretty awesome, as it's saved me tons of grief with mobs where I need to clear out some low-level scum quickly so I can focus on the main "boss."

 

[qwertyaas]

For what it is worth, from my experience going either/or 2H weapons OR Destruction would be better. My 2H Orc fairly destroys any enemy he encounters. Much in the same way my Wizard does with ranged destruction spells. Neither one is particularly better or worse at it. And in order to maintain Destruction you really need to focus on feats and Magicka (and Magicka restoration). You would do much better focusing on 2H and maybe Alteration or Conjuration. both schools give you stuff that 2H don't already give you (big damage) and aren't quite as Magicka heavy in their execution. Or go the other direction and go destruction and back off on the 2H. But going both, you are spending double the perks to get the exact same thing. and you end up weaker HP wise into the bargin. Just my two cents.

Good point, I was actually rethinking 2H and completely rethinking Destro (I'll leave that for a Mage build).

I'm probably going to go Dual Wield or 1H/Shield with Alteration. That's my problem with these games. It always takes me so long to decide what build to go for!

 

[zinfamous]

Good point, I was actually rethinking 2H and completely rethinking Destro (I'll leave that for a Mage build).

I'm probably going to go Dual Wield or 1H/Shield with Alteration. That's my problem with these games. It always takes me so long to decide what build to go for!

deciding between DW or shield isn't a problem, as dual wield eats up so few perks. You probably want to focus on one weapon type, though, to make it most effective. Looking at the shield perks, and in my experience, once you get power bash and resist magic, it becomes game over for most targets. The moment I got the resist magic perk, it was like night and day. Mages become super pussies with their now-useless destruction skills. 😛

another tip--alteration can be spam-leveled, as well as smithing and speech, by converting iron ore to silver to gold ore, crafting 2 gold rings per gold ingot, then selling. Further, enchant each gold ring using a dinky petty soul gem and destruction enchant (best value enchant, that I have found, with a 1% petty soul gem). You rack up on alteration, smithing, enchant, and speech. Alteration is a bit slower, this way. And you might level faster than you want, but I wouldn't sit there and do it until max, anyway. Just do as much as you can take and move on to other things.

you also get a decent cash flow. Iron ore is easy to come buy, or cheap enough to purchase. it's basically one iron ore (~3-4g) -> 2 gold rings (~$80-160g total) prices depend on your speech perks, of course.

 

[thespyder]

Good point, I was actually rethinking 2H and completely rethinking Destro (I'll leave that for a Mage build).

I'm probably going to go Dual Wield or 1H/Shield with Alteration. That's my problem with these games. It always takes me so long to decide what build to go for!

I hear you on that. I currently have a 27 -Destruction Wizard, a 17th Kajit Stealth specialist and a 19th Orc 2Hander. Any one of which might end up being the character I play when I sit down to game, all depending on my mood.

Although I am really kind of enjoying the stealther now that I have the Assassin's blade perk. X15 times damage really adds up even with a non-magical Orc knife. I took out an Overloard in one hit the other night.

 

[Qbah]

I hear you on that. I currently have a 27 -Destruction Wizard, a 17th Kajit Stealth specialist and a 19th Orc 2Hander. Any one of which might end up being the character I play when I sit down to game, all depending on my mood.

Although I am really kind of enjoying the stealther now that I have the Assassin's blade perk. X15 times damage really adds up even with a non-magical Orc knife. I took out an Overloard in one hit the other night.

Join up with the Dark Brotherhood. You'll thank me later 😉 The shrouded armor is rather insane...

 

[power_hour]

Visited my first dungeon yesterday and was like wow, this ain't too shabby. Trap doors, puzzles, crazy undead bill collectors everywhere.

Now if I can just figure out why I am trying to play a Mage who uses a sword (in off hand, with fire in the other) who has a problem tanking when he doesn't. I could fit a shield in my off hand but I figure gank over tank. Yeah I know I am a total noob at this. LOL